HELP! Northwestern MMSS vs. UC Berkeley

College Search & Selection
1

<p>It seems like my mind changes on these two nearly every hour. There are a number of pros and cons and both sides.</p>

<p>I'm OOS, so Berkeley is more expensive since NW gave me some grants.</p>

<p>I want to go into business, and both schools have something to offer me:
-Berkeley has Haas, but I'd have to apply during sophomore year. 50% admit rate
-The MMSS program at NW is a pretty good replacement for not having a B-school. It's known for turning out successful consultants, i-bankers, etc. It only accepts about 20 freshman a year. </p>

<p>-I identify with Berkeley's environment more. </p>

<p>-I live in the midwest, so NW is a lot closer to home</p>

<p>-I prefer Berkeley's semester over NW's quarter system</p>

<p>-I've heard that Berkeley is very competitive, but I'm sure I'd end up working just as hard a NW. </p>

<p>-Berkeley has more prestige </p>

<p>this is a tough call....</p>

2

<p>I doubt Berkeley is more prestigious in the IB/MC world. I'd say they are pretty comparable. Anyway, check out this similar thread:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/490594-college-would-give-me-best-potential-finance-career.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/490594-college-would-give-me-best-potential-finance-career.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As a MMSS, you will probably have a decent chance to get into the Kellogg cert program.</p>

3

<p>Haas is more of a risk than NU. Cost is roughly the same. In the US, reputationally, those two are roughly equal, particularly in general industry. Cal obviously has a prestige edge over NU in the pure sciences and Engineering, but not in Business. I say go to NU since it is less of a risk.</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the link Sam Lee. I agree with Alexandre though... Berkeley is a risk. Do the two really have equal reps? I'm pretty sure that Berkeley and Haas are known nationwide, but someone told me that Northwestern is only recognized in the midwest. Thanks for the advice!</p>

5

<p>Wow! Lucky you! My son applied for MMSS and was rejected. We get in-state tuition for UCB, but he would have chosen MMSS in a heartbeat. No guaranteed business major at UCB. Huge freshman classes. No on-campus housing after freshman year. Difficult to find housing in Berkeley.</p>

6

<p>If you are positive that business is what you want to do, I think that Berkeley would be better. Haas is an awesome B-school. Just work hard, get involved, and make sure that you get into Haas!!!</p>

7

<p>ricegal you are gauranteed two years of housing and many juniors live in the dorms also</p>

8

<p>To the best of my knowledge, Berkeley would only be more prestigious in the West or for certain engineering or science majors largely due to its stellar grad school reputation. In the South, Berkeley does not enjoy a good reputation. In the Northeast, Midwest, South & Southwest, I think that Northwestern is more prestigious than UCal @ Berkeley. This is, however, just my experienced opinion. Northwestern's MMSS program is not only designed to prepare students for elite graduate schools, but also to compete for cross applicants accepted to Princeton, Penn, Duke, Cornell & Stanford. As an ultra wealthy private school, Northwestern University is fortunate to be able to offer a student/faculty ratio of 7:1 versus 15:1 for Berkeley, which is a state funded school. Comparing Berkeley undergrad with Northwestern's MMSS program is a mismatch. Internationally, however, Berkeley should have more prestige due to the breadth & quality of its graduate programs. Nationally, many academics regard Berkeley as prestigious because of its graduate schools which produce a lot of academic folks. In your situation, it would be foolish to pass up Northwestern's MMSS program at lower cost than Berkeley undergraduate school. I think many would be willing to pay double for NU without the MMSS honor vs. Cal. Sorry, but as an experienced adult I am a bit shocked by your assumptions written in the original post.</p>

9

<p>I'd say two issues point you to Berkeley:</p>

<p>
[quote]
-I identify with Berkeley's environment more. </p>

<p>-I live in the midwest, so NW is a lot closer to home

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If you were coming from the California, I'd tell you to go NW in a NY second. But coming from the Midwest, I'd say just as fast: go to Berkeley. It is different, and yet at the same time you identify with it. Go with your gut on this one, and seek change.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm OOS, so Berkeley is more expensive since NW gave me some grants.</p>

<p>-I've heard that Berkeley is very competitive, but I'm sure I'd end up working just as hard a NW.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Berkeley is competitive, but if you focus, you'll do just fine. There are some really hotshots from in state, from the very large state of California, but coming from OOS, you'll be in an upper echelon at Berkeley 'cause it's guaranteed your really good or you wouldn't have gotten in (it's more uneven, being a state school). Just be savvy and work hard and you'll get into Haas. </p>

<p>Now, at the end of the day (I hate that cliche), either one of these choices would serve you very, very well and would be just fine. In the West -- and I would say in most other parts of the nation -- NW's Kellogg School is prestigious but other than that I don't think it has as much profile or prestige as Berkeley. But rather than debating this point with people who perceive it otherwise, I'd point out that I don't think it really matters at all. As I said, both will serve you fine.</p>

<p>If you are dead set on consulting or i-banking, check out the recruiting/placement success of both places. My guess is that Haas has a larger smattering or where grads end up -- including Silicon Valley tech firms -- than those coming out of a rarified program at NW.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Haas is more of a risk than NU. Cost is roughly the same. In the US, reputationally, those two are roughly equal, particularly in general industry. Cal obviously has a prestige edge over NU in the pure sciences and Engineering, but not in Business. I say go to NU since it is less of a risk.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree with Alexandre: Haas is more of a risk. But for me, that cuts the other way since you said that you prefer Berkeley's style. I say: swing for the fences; you'll end up feeling better about it. Furthermore, I really don't, for the reasons I said, think it's that much of a risk for you.</p>

<p>Good luck. Congratulations on your acceptances. Oh, and if in case you haven't already done so, try to visit. Of course, if you visit Haas at this time of year (especially), you'll never want to leave.</p>

<p>Don't look back, once you've made your choice.</p>

10

<p>Wow thanks for all the feedback! As of my decision, I think I'm leaning towards Northwestern due to my admission to the MMSS program</p>

11

<p>What is MMSS?</p>

12

<p>MMSS is Mathematical Methods in the Social Sciences. It's a program designed to use math in areas outside of science and engineering. My son dislikes science and engineering, but loves math, particularly statistics. It is the perfect program for students like him. The program is also like an honors program in that they only admit 20 students per year and these students all attend special advanced math classes together. It's a lot stronger program than just an econ degree because of its heavy emphasis on math. That's why so many are accepted into top grad schools. Also, you don't have to put your emphasis on econ if you don't want. You can emphasize some other social science like sociology, although I suspect most of the students are interested in econ.</p>

13

<p>^ I C...sounds like a fantastic program. I'd do that over Berkeley (besides it's cheaper for you and you'll get more care and feeding). Go to Berkeley for grad school.</p>

14

<p>Just as an added note:</p>

<p>
[quote]
No on-campus housing after freshman year. Difficult to find housing in Berkeley.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Berkeley guarantees housing for two years. It's not difficult to find housing outside of the dorms--there are all the themed housing, the co-ops, frats, tons of apartments, etc. Berkeley will even subsidize living in an apartment.</p>

15

<p>In the OP situation, I'd say his chance of getting into Kellogg cert as a MMSS student is probably just as good as getting into Hass. </p>

<p>MMSS automatically fulfills all the pre-reqs of Kellogg cert. For non-MMSS students, they have to take 7 pre-req courses in math and econometrics; the 4 math courses are either the Honors Calculus or the MENU (math experience for nu undergrad) sequence. Both of them are tough and very intense. Given this, I expect the number of eligible applicants for the 100 spots in Kellogg cert would be fairly limited and MMSS students are in great position to get in. Even without Kellogg cert, MMSS+econ is still an awesome combo.</p>

<p>The Kellogg cert is like skipping all the general courses in accounting, marketing...etc and going straight into the finance concentration at a deeper and more advanced level than your typical ug program. The first course is the same accelerated finance course given to Kellogg MBA students and described in Turbo</a> Finance, Finance Department. It's even taught by the same professor. In terms of rigor, it's at least a notch, if not more, above any ug biz program.</p>

16

<p>I'd say if you are leaning toward the MMSS program, you couldn't go wrong. Personally, I am against an undergrad business major though that's a personal thing. It can work very well for some folks.</p>

<p>Do you know what you want to do?</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
Personally, I am against an undergrad business major though that's a personal thing.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I kind of agree. Why get an MBA-lite when you can get a full MBA later on - and make it more meaningful with work experience under your belt?</p>

18

<p>I also agree. I think Economics is a more rewarding major at the undergraduate level.</p>

19

<p>BedHead- could you explain why you are against an undergrad business major?</p>

20

<p>It's just that quaint old notion that I think that first one should seek to be educated. Business classes are a smattering of a lot of different fields. I believe there may be more exacting fields that hones one's critical abilities more finally and that expose one to thinking and ideas that one will never really find again. Now, having said that, there are a lot of students who come out of places like Haas or Wharton for undergrad -- or NU's cert program -- and do just fine for themselves. They never seem to think what they missed by studying economics, biology, or history.</p>