I worked with a IP/patent law attorney who had a similar issue to what you may be facing.
He basically had an MS in Mechanical engineering from the US Navy post-graduate school, but ran into a similar issue as his undergrad was a BA, not a BS in Physics.
He somehow managed to get a waiver for it due to his engineering MS and successfully passed the USPTO and became an IP/patent law attorney.
His MS in engineering was ABET accredited and I believe his decade-long experience working as a Naval engineer during his Naval career facilitated that waiver.
Re: ABET - if it’s Carnegie Mellon, not having ABET is just fine. But for smaller, lesser known colleges and universities, ABET accreditation means they have met certain requirements and guidelines.
I am with the others on holding off on this patent attorney dream for now. At any rate, CS programs in LAC’s vary quite a bit, so you should investigate what is available. They would also have less options within the major.
Have you taken any programming classes in school? Do you like to explore programming classes online just for the heck of it? Do you like discrete math topics like counting problems or probability (sadly, not much emphasized in high school - but is the basis for much analytical work in CS.)
“washed out” as in changed their majors after freshman year (it may have been sophomore year-it was a while ago) from engineering to history and poetry.
@MotherOfDragons Did they find it harder to become patent lawyers/did they experience any possible discrimination? From what dadofsam says, it sounds like it is considerably harder to find a good job as a patent lawyer without a strong background in STEM.
They worked crappy, miserable, low-paying jobs for years, and then gave up and formed their own intellectual property rights company. It’s subsidized by my FIL (the patent attorney).
Thanks everybody, the information is really helpful!
I know it’s really early to consider law school, but patent law is one of those special types of law where as an undergrad, there are requirements you have to meet (like majors, course hours, etc) so I need to decide if I want to pursue a STEM major or not.
The reason why I’m interested in CS is because I have dabbled a bit in languages and attended some events; I did get an internship at a top CS company this summer so after that I’ll see if my interest in CS furthered.
@mom2collegekids Sorry, I am wrong about MIT but I was equally surprised by Stanford and Cornell. Also, so far I really like patent law because I find it to be one of those subjects which can equally integrate everything I like, from a strong English background to interest in STEM, and also the profession itself (I discussed this in another thread if you want to see it!). I also talked with some patent lawyers to see what the profession is like, and so far, it seems great!
@momprof94 I have taken AP Statistics and I loved it, I really like Calculus and I did take an online Javascript class for fun! I’m also taking a community college CS class this summer in addition to my internship just to see if it really is for me. Also, if the college isn’t ABET accredited… what do I do? (Let’s say Carnegie Mellon, for example). Do I appeal or try for Option 4 of Category B?
@ucbalumnus Thank you so much, that link answered my question about CS option 4 completely!
@cobrat So a MS degree doesn’t override a BA? Was it hard to get a waiver or easy? To me, that doesn’t make much sense because a MS is more advanced than a BA/BS, but the requirements can be kind of wacky sometimes. Did that attorney you worked it find it hard to get approval from the USPTO?
There are dozens of careers which integrate English and STEM. And if you are having trouble deciding if you want to pursue a STEM major, there’s your answer. There are many other fields of law which require scientific or technical fluency- environmental, medical malpractice, etc. so having to talk yourself into STEM JUST so you can become a patent lawyer seems to me like a huge stretch.
That IP/patent law attorney wondered the same thing. However, he found that despite the MS in MechE, he required a waiver because his BA in Physics wasn’t enough to fulfill one of the prereqs to take the USPTO. They mainly focused on the bachelors degree and whether it fulfilled the minimum science/tech requirements(BS in Chem/Physics or ABET accredited degree) or not. Having an MS in those STEM fields did not override that requirement absent a waiver.
Didn’t make any sense to him either…especially considering he not only took the MS in MechE…but also worked as a Navy Engineer for a decade before the exam. It was a bit of a hassle for him…but he managed to get it. However, even he admitted YMMV and it could be harder for some than others.
For some reason, the USPTO official told the attorney colleague I worked with that his BA in Physics didn’t fulfill the prereqs for taking the USPTO exam and that he had to fulfill it by other means or get a waiver of some kind despite having an MS in MechE and working a decade as a Navy engineer.
My impression is that it was the lack of adequate/right type of non-major science courses in his undergrad program.
Another quick Q, @cobrat . Was the person you know unable to meet the patent bar requirements through Category B, taking enough classes in some STEM field? I would think a MS /Navy Engineer field would be enough to meet those course requirements. Another question I have: let’s say I get a BA that’s not ABET accredited but get a MS at a school that is. Would that be okay?
@MotherOfDragons That sounds horrible… will keep in mind; that’s why I guess dadofsam is right in that technical experience is very important for patent law. Thanks!
Yes, but #14 and #16 referred to a degree in physics, for which ABET accreditation is not applicable. For non-ABET-accredited CS degrees, you would have to fulfill the alternate requirements listed in that bulletin section III.B.iv and III.B.x, in order to fulfill the patent exam prerequisites.
Also, the degree title BA or BS is not a reliable indicator of whether the CS major is ABET accredited.
The student is in high school, at a minimum 8 years away from taking the patent bar, probably more like 10-12 if the number of masters and other degrees happen. The requirements could change, especially with regard to CS and how programs are accredited by ABET or others. While it is good to plan, there is only so much planning that can happen for something 10+ years away. However, if you know what you want to do and you know that the BA in CS is not (currently) enough, why take that path knowing the you might need a waiver and that that might not be granted? Why not just take the known path? There are plenty of ABET accredited CS programs at schools with good English departments. Go to one of those.
My brother’s girlfriend is a patent lawyer. She had a bs, ms (2 of them) and a phd before she went to law school. She’s not an engineer and her degrees were in biology things (not exactly sure). She’s a genius. She studied what she wanted to, she got funding and fellowships and went to the schools that offered them. She went to law school at night because she had a family and had to work to support them (definitely in her 30s with 4 kids). She’s a partner now and works all the time. All. The. Time.
