Any and all responses appreciated. My son is a senior in HS. He has decent SAT and GPA. He’s applied to a variety of schools, plus one Ivy that is a major reach. Husband is faculty at a state university. it’s an okay university by reputation, not hard to get into.
My son applied to one of their more rigorous, more selective programs and got in. We have a tuition waiver as part of the staff benefits. This is a huge value/deal. If my son goes here, it will mean he gets his education debt free/loan-free. We would still cover R&B, fees., etc., which would be about 15k out of pocket. We have a 529 that almost has enough for four years of that.
The issue: My son is worried the school won’t be challenging enough. Worried he won’t make the connections he needs. Won’t be around bright and curious kids. We have visited the school, and it seems like a typical state univ. His SAT scores are a few points below what the Honors College accepts, so he won’t be admitted there. But he’s close – hence, the issue of feeling like he’s caught.
We are waiting on the other schools he applied to --but our EFC is high and we won’t get aid. We WOULD need to take out tons of loans for the other schools, no question.
So I’m looking at state school but a program he likes = no debt/loans/sleeping easier. Or, a school he really likes better and feels more of a fit with = Probably $120k in loans for 4 years. This is a $120k decision, basically. I know where I am leaning, but the household is divided. Honest responses/answers appreciated!
There are smart and exciting students at EVERY college.
Does he have to give an answer today? Why not wait until all the acceptances are in…and see what the net costs are at those schools.
Also, did you tell your son that he HAD to attend this university BEFORE he sent his applications out…if accepted? Yes…$120,000 in Loans is a LOT but if you didn’t intend to fund the other colleges…why did you let him apply there?
Like @thumper1 , you needed to sit down as a family to discuss what the financial parameters were before he sent out any applications.
Worse case scenario, be gets accepted to the Ivy. You already know that you are full pay and can’t cant afford it without major debt. It is so unfair to tell him after the acceptance letter is in hand. Did you tell him in advance, you can toss your application but we cannot afford it?
If he is so unhappy with the current choice, you need a bottoms up approach. Your son needs to add schools to his list that he is a candidate for merit, schools where he stands a good chance of getting the tuition exchange that still comes out to affordable options.
Are there other schools in your state U system (perhaps the state flagship, if you have one), where he can be admitted?
There are plenty of smart kids in every school and he will find his people.
At this stage of your life, with retirement on the horizon, I would be a bit unhappy spending the next 10 years paying off $120k (or more) of college debt. You need to let him know now, that $120k in debt is not an option for your family.
$120,000 is a LOT of debt for an undergraduate degree. I understand your concern. It sounds like the rigor of his program at the prospective university is high, so I don’t think I’d be that concerned about not “being around bright and curious kids”. I can guarantee you there are very bright kids at most major public universities—kids that turned down offers at more prestigious schools due to finances. Our daughter settled on our instate university even though it wasn’t where she really wanted to go. She hasn’t even been there three months and has already made close friends, found clubs with people who share her interests, and is challenged academically. She is part of the honors program. Does she look back and wonder “what if?”— yes she does, but unfortunately that is financial reality. I wonder if your son could apply to the honors program after he completes some classes there— maybe join as a sophomore? I’m also wondering if your if your husband’s tuition benefit includes any type of reciprocity with other colleges? Maybe his stats would qualify him for honors at a different school or perhaps he would prefer somewhere smaller where he may feel like it is easier to make connections. I think the bottom line is that there are lots of good opportunities for kids to get a four year degree. That debt stays with you for decades. For us, we just couldn’t justify it at the expense of our retirement and our younger children’s educations. Think of how that money you have saved up could be put to use for grad school.
If you were to say his stats are way above the school’s top 25% then I would be more inclined to pay for a school that’s more rigorous/challenging, but it doesn’t appear to be the case. 120K is a lot of money to pay for a better college experience. This public college seems to have different level of offerings. If he is concerned about being challenged then he should try to get into an honors program later.
But it won’t just be $120K in loans though, will it? Have you plugged it into a calculator that adds in the interest? I would estimate it will be at least $140-160. For a lot of families, that is the amount of a house and they take 30 years to pay that off! I would have a hard time saying no to $50K or less but $120K?
What would we do? Our family would say absolutely no. Kids have NO idea of the impact of that kind of debt. No idea. Our experience so far is that there are plenty of students in these honors programs who also had to say no (in my daughter’s suite alone there were girls who turned down Cornell and Stanford due to $$).
Thank you for these responses. Yes, we were clear how incredibly hard it would be to finance the sticker price of some of the other schools. But you never know, so we said go ahead and apply and let’s see what happens. He is super concerned that rankings and avg income coming out of this state school are not competitive. I keep assuring him that it’s what he makes of it. His smarts will go with him wherever he winds up. There is also reality: bright kid, 3.6 GPa unweighted, 1230 sat. That’s solid. But may not be enough to get substantial merit aid from, say, a univ of Maryland or Miami. At the end of the day, we will see what the costs are. But it will be hard for me to take out loans of more tjan 40k… plus have another child who will go through this in a few years. Hard to justify the costs, and he will just need to accept that. Also, no reciprocity at this school.
Also: no, we never said he had to go there. But very clear that it’d be hard to pass up. If there is a school he loves and feels is the right fit… but it means $100k borrowed, that would be a tough choice. Kids don’t understand fully what debt means. And then there is grad school! Thanks for the responses. I guess we just wait until spring. Maybe the decision wll be pretty clear, actually.
@WantWhatsBest --hang in there. It’s a hard year of decisions and waiting and the kids are ready but not ready and you are simultaneously checking your emotions AND your bank account. Just know and reassure yourself and your kid that this is SO common. He will find his people. Also, is there a chance that he might be overwhelmed at the reach school? Being surrounded by kids who are like 90% above your stats could be a super sobering and perhaps depressing situation.
Sounds like it’s a more than a 120K decision. If your EFC is so high you won’t get aid at schools that cost even 60-65K, then presumably you’d have to use the 529, borrow that 30K a year, and put up more money each year (10K? 20K?). As compared to mostly just using the 529.
I would consider what program he’s in, and if graduate school is likely or necessary. It may be that graduate school would be more of a determining factor in his prospects or connections, or that the undergrad program at one of his other likely choices is not that much better.
I’m sympathetic to his feeling that other schools may be a better fit for him, or more exciting to go to than the one his dad teaches at, or more in line with his GPA and scores (which must be better than “decent,” though clearly not tip-top). I do question the idea that college won’t be “challenging.” You can ask whether he thinks that if he is in one of their more rigorous majors, takes the most rigorous courses he can, gets really involved in activities, and works to have internships/research opportunities, that he is going to get all A’s and have time to sit around thinking how easy this college is. (And if that were true, well, how bad is that?)
If there aren’t merit or financial aid opportunities that take another school below a 120K (or much more) difference, it really doesn’t seem to make sense to go elsewhere.
Totally agree. I personally don’t think he would flourish in a pressure cooker. I went to a top school … I know what it’s like. I also know him. He’s 17. Doesn’t have perspective. Only want the best, as we all do for our kids. Thanks again for the responses
Try to encourage him to have an open mind and not fall in love with any one place until the financials are in. It could come back to bite him…big time.
Your son doesn’t have the stats to get into your state school’s honors program and he’s worried the other students won’t be smart enough for him? I think he needs to change his attitude. There are plenty of smart students whose families can’t afford residential college. Where does he think they go to school? The majority of kids attend their local commuter school or start at community college.
Colleges that you need to borrow $120k + interest to pay for may not be affordable for your family, especially if you have to borrow a similar amount for the younger sibling. If you and your spouse are divided on the issue of debt, you need to sort that out before acceptances start rolling in. I wouldn’t wait until spring to set a firm budget. That’s way too late.
It’s important that you figure out how much you can afford to pay and communicate that to your son. I’d be clear that any school whose package comes in over that amount will immediately come off the table. It sounds like you allowed him to apply to one financial safety and a bunch of unaffordable schools, though. If that’s the case, I think you should find some affordable schools to add to his list or he may not have any choices in April.
I’m interested to know what your husband tells his students about the academic levels of their classmates and the networking opportunities available at your state school. I wouldn’t want a professor whose attitude is that the school is good enough for you but my kid deserves better. If your spouse is comfortable with the school academically, he needs to try to convey that to your son. I know that’s challenging when dealing with a 17-year-old.
If your son doesn’t have the stats to get into the honors program… why does he think the school won’t have enough smart kids? That doesn’t make sense… and… there are plenty of smart kids at every school. What matters is what you do while there.
I think you need to get together as a family and decide what you can afford to pay. Can your son apply to schools thst give merit? That is a lot of debt for an undergraduate degree… my opinion.
I am also interested to hear how your husband feels about the school.
@WantWhatsBest One thing to consider: There are quite a few academically very strong students who are in the same situation as you are. A LOT of them end up going to an in-state public university because that is what makes sense. As a result, pretty much any good public university is going to have a significant number of academically very strong in-state students. They might not be a majority, nor even remotely close to a majority, but they will be there in significant number.
Also, a good state university is going to have some very good professors and some challenging classes. Over time your son may need to pick classes appropriately, but he will find good ones.
The honors programs that I am familiar with do have options for a student to get in after a year or so based on university grades if the grades are there. However, my daughter who was in a university honors program dropped it because the extra classes were getting in the way of the required classes for her dual major, and she found appropriately challenging upper level classes in her majors. Thus at least my family’s experience with an honors college program is that it is not needed.
To me, $120,000 in debt for an undergraduate degree, or for anything short of an MD from a good school or an MBA from Harvard or Stanford, is a non-starter. This is just too much debt to take on.
Here’s how I would think about it (and I recognize that it’s not my kid and it’s not my money).
If your son was deeply interested in a program which was superb/top notch/world class (let’s call it Classics or Near Eastern Studies at U Chicago) where the less expensive options were U New Hampshire or U Maine- it would be worth keeping all options open until the decisions and financial aid awards were in. Although there are several public U’s with absolutely top notch Classics departments (Berkeley for one) if they aren’t in-state for you, they are still a huge stretch financially. I think the difference between world class and just ho-hum (i.e.a couple of classes where you could patch together your own major, key faculty members might be on sabbatical the year you need them to supervise your senior research project) is quite substantial.
If we are talking about econ-- no question for me- I’d be encouraging the less expensive option. Yes, there is a thrill studying with Nobel prize winners (looking at you again, Chicago) but I think a rigorous state U program in econ can get you everywhere you’d want to go… especially if the field of interest required grad school.
If we are talking engineering- many of the state programs are FAR better than the private options (including Ivy).
English? Russian Lit? Worth a conversation.
But to me there is a disconnect- the Honors program is clearly the optimal solution, and yet your son doesn’t qualify. Why? And what would make him think that if he’s not one of the top students at this college he wouldn’t have ample intellectual challenges???
All great questions. I knew I came to the right place. So let’s see – I’m obviously biased when I say this, but he’s a very deep thinker and smart kid. A 1230 on the SAT doesn’t reflect that well. It’s reality, though, and the criterion on which being admitted to the Honors College is made. I had a long talk with him this morning about that. Don’t be too big for your britches, etc. The state school in question has a fairly low threshold to get into. It’s practically open admissions. If you look at the stats – my son, who is in AP classes – cites stats and avg incomes of grads from there. And not in a good way. I give him the ol’:’ It’s what you make of it’ speech. And I believe that. And I do believe there should be a broad enough group of kids that he’ll find the rigor he needs. But he’s 17, so it’s a discussion.
The program we’re talking about isn’t engineering – it’s architecture. He applied to a variety of schools, some that are safety, some that are a stretch, and some that are probably just the right fit. Though most of these are private or out of state, so the cost will very likely be prohibitive. To the poster who said I’d have to swing a mix of 529, savings, cash flow, and loans – yep, exactly. That’s what I was thinking. But that’s also my conundrum: Is it worth doing all that if the “quality” of the school isn’t so far superior (say a Yale or Swarthmore) than the “free tuition” state school?
My husband teaches at a branch campus – so he wouldn’t even be at the main campus where my son would be. To the posters who ask what he thinks. Well, what he thinks of the school he’s taught at and has tenure at for 18 years isn’t very good. He has a very dim view of the students, the admin, etc. His view is colored by his own experienced as an employee. He has excellent credentials but teaches in a very niche-y area. This is the job he got straight out of his doctoral program and it’s the job he has today (not for lack of trying to find other jobs). So while he enjoys the perks of his job (job security, very flexible schedule), he feels overqualified to be where’s at. Yet he has never gotten another position elsewhere. I realize it’s really damaging to bring home that negativity and unleash it on your family – especially if you children might end up there. It’s a very tough spot (thus the reason I showed up here to try to get my head straight). I’ll repeat the same things I’ve said to my son all along: Let’s see what happens; where you get in and what they offer. But at the end of the day, the decision we have to make is one of investment, and it has to be built on reality. Borrowing 40k to go to Cornell (suspending belief that he would get in)? Okay worth it. Borrowing 150k to go to a very good state school in another state versus going to the state school that offers free tuition? Not worth it, in my opinion. Time will tell. For now, we wait.
Well then he needs to look at other instate options. Can he take gen eds and classes he will need later for his major at a community college for 2 years and save up his loans and work earnings to transfer to a 4yr school to finish his degree?
He might change his mind about architecture. He could appeal to be accepted to honors college if his stats are close.
Or he could study and retake SAT.
He could also apply to other schools that would give him merit, but they would not necessarily be academically better than the instate flagship.
Your son is an academic fit for this school, so if that’s your husband’s view of its students then it’s no wonder he doesn’t want to attend. Who wants to be part of a community their father doesn’t respect? If your husband can’t respect his students, why does he teach there?