UA is a good suggestion. Better than UTD, do you think? I am partial to UTD since my oldest son and I visited for McDermott Scholars finalist weekend, and I was very impressed.
I don’t have the breakdown of scores yet. Still waiting on all the scores.
List of bs/md programs is very short. You got to apply wider if it is your goal.
Do not get discouraged. You have great stats for bs/md. Applying smartly will result in better chance of getting accepted somewhere. My D. was accepted to 3 bs/md programs, but all were at our in-state publics. The chances at in-state publics are great for your caliber student.
However, for bs/md’s you need to show a strong interest in medicine. By that I mean that you need to have good amount of hours in hospital volunteering (or similar facilities), physician shadowing and internship / paid position at Med. Research lab. I am not sure if you have any chances in any bs/md without medical EC’s. Keep in mind that everybody who apply will have very high stats and many will have perfect HS un-weighted GPA with the most rigorous classes possible at their respective HS’s and high SAT/ACT scores.
The other majors should be fine at any place. I am not familiar with selectivity in these area, D. was not aiming at any Elite colleges, she was aiming at bs/md programs and Merit scholarships so her list was constructed based primarily on these 2 with additional requirement of being within 4 hours from home (driving distance). And we do no live anywhere near California (looks like CA is where you live)
Best wishes!
Things to consider:
I would not pre-assume that Howard is not a right fit because the underserved communities that it may emphasize working with are a slightly different shade of brown than the ones she is doing charitable work for now.
Tufts has a program where Tufts undergrads can apply as sophomores early action to Tufts med. Expensive med school though, and extremely competitive to get the early admit.
Both Baylor and Texas Tech have BS/MD programs but Baylor is very competitive. They also have scholarships available.
@sbjdorlo to answer your earlier question, see this actually recent thread.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1792411-best-lacs-for-science-p1.html
Also, others that come to mind on the east coast with strong sciences are Smith, Lafayette, Bucknell, nor could she go wrong at most of the top 20 LACs for a bio-related course of study. Of course, YMMV so individual departmental research for different +'s/-'s at each school is encouraged.
I don’t see any benefit to UT-Dallas since the Texas med schools are so Texas resident biased…even the privates are.
UA or any other Alabama public that will give big merit for undergrad is a good idea for an OOS Premed, particularly a female one and one from Calif.
Here’s why…
AL has two public med schools (UAB and University of South Alabama) that are “male heavy” and they do accept OOS students. USA med school (in lovely Mobile, AL) really tries to accept qualified females because they are too male-heavy …and if they’re OOS with strong stats, they’ll give them merit to cover the OOS med school costs.
"BS/MD programs typically require maintaining a pre-med-worthy college GPA and getting a pre-med-worthy MCAT score to retain the MD school admission "
-Not so in most bs/md’s. They do require a certain college GPA, but it is lower than “regular” route “must have” college GPA of about 3.7. MCAT is not required at all in many bs/md’s to matriculate straight to Medical School in a program. Sometime it is required though. For example in the programs that I am familiar with, one required 27 and another 24. Considering the fact that some pre-meds have 25 on the first diagnostic test MCAT and before they even take some pre-reqs (like physics), 24/27 is not that hard to achieve at all.
In addition, while cost of Med. Schools vary, it should not be considered as some in-state publics cost the same in the 3rd and 4th year as privates, the fact overlooked by many. And the OOS publics may be more expensive than privates, I would definitely recommend checking this one.
If you are accepted to bs/md most likely, you will be on at least full tuition Merit scholarship for UG portion and maybe even full ride.
In case of accelerated bs/md, the flexibility in major/schelude may be not there. You will be taking about 21 hours / semester and in some programs and no summers off. Some require basically taking the MCAT in a summer after freshman year. The option of non-accelerated bs/md is more attractive to some. These are greatly flexible and allow any combo of major(s)/minor(s) and summers off…a.k.a normal college experience and great peace of mind.
College GPA and MCAT requirements for BS/MD programs:
Boston University: 3.20 GPA (overall and sciences), 80th percentile MCAT (31 old, 509 new)
Howard University: 3.25/3.50 GPA (science/overall), 24 MCAT
Brown University: no specific GPA or MCAT requirements appear to be mentioned
University of Missouri - Kansan City: no specific GPA requirement appears to be mentioned; MCAT not required
However, there may be other BS/MD programs with higher college GPA and MCAT requirements to stay in the program.
To clarify, for the BS/MD (or BA/MD) programs listed above, during undergrad, one needs to maintain the 3.20 GPA at Boston University to stay in the program (and get the 80th%ile), correct? These GPAs seem a lot more reasonable than the GPA that is needed to apply directly to med school, correct?
OTOH, I do know of a young man that is very smart, but basically goofed around in college (Wheaton, Ill) and graduated with an under 3.0 GPA. It took him, I think, three rounds to get into med school, but he is now doing his residency. He needed time to mature and build his resume, so I know all is not lost if one doesn’t get in the first time.
I really appreciate all the feedback on and offlist. Clearly, this isn’t an area that I am knowledgeable in, and truth be told, when we first talked, these types of schools weren’t on the list.
I’m concerned about test scores and experience (no hospital experience or research), though her work with the poor should relate in some way as was mentioned above, and at least one of you was of the opinion that Howard shouldn’t be ruled out.
I got some updated scores: Superscore SAT 2230 (750 math, 790 W, 690 CR) SAT II: Math II 740, Bio 640, WH ?
AP: Bio, Calc A/B sub, Engl Lang: all 4s WH, Calc B/C: 3s
My thought is to concentrate on retaking subject test in bio to get 700+. Should I suggest anything else? Senior year has three APs: stats, French and govt.
Since the parents chose a Christian HS for her they definitely need to consider the nonacademic fit as well as the academics. Some schools may offend the parents with the campus atmosphere. If she leans heavily towards STEM subjects she should concentrate on schools where she will find many like minded students. It is much easier to be among those with the same interests than at a heavy humanities LAC. Right now I suspect she is naïve about the possibilities in science as exposure to a school where the majority of science students are not premed may be best. That said- consider Washington U in St Louis as a school with opportunities to become involved in things medical as an undergrad.
I cringe at considering LACs having “great science facilities” since there is no way they have the opportunities to be in grad labs like at research U’s during their undergrad science courses.
True, for the schools that you listed. Some others may have higher GPA requirements like 3.5. Check each school carefully.
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Superscore SAT 2230 (750 math, 790 W, 690 CR)
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her high W score won’t be used by most/all schools. She has a 1440 M+CR superscore. Which is about an ACT 33. That won’t be very competitive for most BS/MD schools without some hook.
What is her best score from one sitting?
Personally, I don’t like the BS/MD programs with low minimum req’ts while in undergrad. I think it encourages bad habits. While this is only an example of 1, one of my son’s housemate was a BS/MD student. This student was also a high school classmate so we know that he had been a strong student in high school. However, with the more modest req’ts to maintain as an undergrad, this student didn’t work very hard. Now, this student is in med school and he’s still has those lazy habits. The 3 housemates got their STEP i scores several weeks back. That student’s score was below average, while my son and the other housemate did very well.
Again, while I know that this is just a sample of one, it just makes sense that a premed who has that low bar to meet will not put as much effort into undergrad as the ones who have to work hard to get the brass ring…and that work ethic, lesser science foundation, etc, will carry into med school.
640 bio test score jumps out at me.
Perfectly fine score. But it suggests (doesn’t scream, but suggests) a kid who is very capable but doesn’t love bio.
I’d be very cautious of encouraging a BS/MD program for a 17 year old kid who doesn’t love Life Sciences as a discipline. It’s easy to get caught up in the fantasy of being a doctor but if aren’t going to jump into the study of cells, genetics, etc. with enormous enthusiasm, committing to med school right now seems like a bad plan.
Was that taken before AP bio? The student had a 4 on the AP bio exam.
Our oral surgeon did the BS/MD program at the same school as referenced in post 32 on this thread. His personality type and maturity was not one to be a slacker. Some students do learn and do their best for the sake of learning. Many students with less maturity don’t put in full effort once they get into med school.
Oral surgeon is married to a MD who is a medical oncologist, so they both had high career goals and achieved them.
Regardless of the scores- does the kid love bio?
My understanding of the situation is that the student was on a math/engineering track in middle school and early high school, but felt pigeon-holed, and much more recently has expressed an interest in neuro-science/psychology, perhaps based on her work in India. It was a family member in the medical field that suggested the idea of the BS/MD programs.
I have met a number of strong, independent young ladies that seem to really want to pull in a direction the family isn’t entirely comfortable with. This might be the case. But, I’ve pointed out the reality of the situation (very low chance of getting into BS/MD because of test scores and lack of experience), and the mom agrees with me. The parents would like to steer her towards bio-engineering or biology to give her time to think through her options.
Her awards are general academic and math related. However, her many visits to India and starting of the non-profit suggests to me that her interest in people, neuro, psychology, etc. was likely fostered by these experiences. She also has an interest in foreign languages, and I think I’m going to suggest the French SAT II (if it’s offered this fall) since she studied it for 3-4 years.
I don’t have the dates of the test scores. Edit: Single sitting best was 2220 (Math 740 and 750 on the two sittings).
I will ask more questions when I meet with them again. I’ve only met the family once before they left on vacation.
“She has a 1440 M+CR superscore. Which is about an ACT 33. That won’t be very competitive for most BS/MD schools without some hook.” - Frankly, this is exactly my D’s score and it was plenty competitive. Unless completion went considerably up since 8 years ago. However, we met many and heard about many who were accepted with the lower stats than my D’s. But medical EC’s are extremely important and every applicant to bs/md has plenty.
On the other note, not only we met lots of bs/md students during interviews, but also D. met some bs/md Med. School graduates during her residency application cycle (very selective specialty). There is nothing negative to say about these fine students, they are just as good as other pre-meds and medical students. Time and again, the hard working people will adjust to any requirements and will survive in any program. There are no exceptions here, all pre-meds are very hard working and if they are not, they just fall out and given selectivity of bs/md programs, students in the programs are tops of the pre-med crowd. In addition, students that are in non-accelerated bs/md programs have exactly the same college experience and not separated anyhow from the general student body. They are involved in whatever they wish just like the rest of pre-meds. Having lower requirements just provides a great peace of mind. It does not mean that one should aim at having lower stats after UG, not at all, this part depend strictly on the student. I do not know any pre-med,. regular route or in bs/md who has lazy habits. Both my D’s best friend and my D. were in different bs/md, friend was at private and D. was at public. Both graduated Summa cum Laude with the highest stats possible. Both ended up at Med. Schools outside of their respective bs/md. They applied out for different and un-related reasons.
I am not advocating one way or another. I am just stating that if person has high enough stats and medical EC’s, and if the goal is bs/md, then why not? I do not see anything wrong with it. But I can only use my personal experience, I tend not to check any data on internet, I do not trust it because it does not reflects characteristics of specific student and her specific conditions. I trust my own experience more. And my experience is very positive.
Yes, things have gotten much more competitive since your daughter applied to colleges over 8 years ago.