My daughter’s 9th grade physics teacher is terrible! DD is a math and science kid, took honors High school biology last year in 8th and is in honors math. She is barely passing Physics first! Teacher does not test what they learn in class, or in the textbook. There are very few notes given in class or lab reports. Early on in the year she figured out that she would have to learn most of it on her own using the textbook and Khan Academy. She has gone to see him after class, attends his tutorial sessions ( which can last 2 hours!), and has a senior tutoring her at night. The problem is the teacher likes to test "abstract ideas"without math. Each problem can take the teacher 20 minutes to solve. Today, half the class left in tears after the test. Is this type of teaching normal at BS? It is starting to affect her sleep and other classes, since she has to put in so much time outside of the classroom- I have suggested that she talk to her academic advisor (again), as well as try to set up a meeiting with her teacher to go over her test and her notes to see what she is missing. She plans on borrowing notes from another physics class (different teacher) for their final exam. What else can she do?
First year high school physics conceptual questions involving “abstract ideas” with no math should not take the teacher 20 minutes to solve. Is this teacher new?
Ugh. Son took a physics class in HS that concentrated on “concept” rather than math (which of course proves the concepts) and absolutely hated it. Total waste in his opinion not to mention frustrating at the same time.
Any way she can switch teachers? Can she see the OTHER teacher for some help?
This sounds like the classic “Physics for Poets” sort of course that one sometimes encounters in college. It’s always a challenge trying to learn Physics without some facility with math at least through trigonometry. That’s probably why 9th graders typically take biology or even chemistry, both of which can be presented with basic algebra without losing the script.
If your daughter has the facility with math, is it possible for her to switch to a more mathematically focused course? Otherwise, is there another section with another teacher - perhaps the material could be presented in a more engaging and coherent way by someone else? I do fear, though, that it is the nature of the subject that if you are going to present the concepts without the mathematical underpinnings to students who in any event don’t really have the requisite math facility, then it is going to be a tough slog.
I’m not sure why students take physics before biology and chemistry. Maybe someone can explain it to me. Seems counterproductive without the math. Sad to say my kid has told us that she refuses to take another physics class unless its absolutely required- will stick to life sciences-
@Gouf78 we were hoping she would get a new teacher after the first trimester when she added a class to her schedule but no such luck. That’s a great idea about talking with another Physics teacher. Will pass that along.
@drLucia No, he has been there awhile. I believe he left once but has obviously returned. I believe the problem is not inexperience but rather being overly trained and not being able to"dumb down" physics for 14-15 year olds. I guess he uses abtract ideas in lieu of math? He seems to over complicate everything and doesn’t want to use the textbook.
Just last year my physics AP teacher told me that the AP test changed its formula from math focused to conecept focused, but it really wasn’t that difficult, I was on phone half the time in class, never attended tutoring, passed with solid A and 3 on AP exam…perhaps your daughter’s teacher is new to teaching and doesn’t know what she’s doing, just switch out of the course and take it later, when a better teacher teaches it.
In hindsight we should have requested that she skip this course and start her freshman year with chemistry. (She has already completed HS bio)
We just didn’t want to be “difficult” before she even started Boarding School, and they like their freshmen to start with physics. We had her repeat Algebra 2/trig as well, instead of starting pre-cal. She was only 13 and we felt like a solid foundation in math & science is never a bad idea. (She missed 2 math questions on SAT @ 12)
I think not having math is really making it harder on her- lesson learned…
Learning how to deal with “bad” teachers, whether it is because they are boring, hard, difficult to understand or otherwise is part of school life. It occurs even at top boarding schools. Sometimes there is nothing that the student can do about it but suffer through the class and do the best they can, even if that means a less than perfect report card.
It may be years later that she discovers that she is better prepared for future science or physics classes than students who were in the “better” or “easier” sections. It could also turn out that she has to change her plans or take different courses later in her academic career. Stuff happens.Generally, it all works out in the end.
Right now, she should work within the teacher’s system, as best she is able, seek supplemental help, either from other teachers, peers, tutors, or even Khan Academy, and talk to her advisor. With it being a long time faculty member, there is probably not much else she can do.
Sorry can’t be more help. Sometimes you just run into poor teachers. I’ve had my unfortunate share over the years.
I can see where your D would say “no physics” ever after this experience. I wasn’t a fan either in HS.
But in college I had to take it as a required class for my major. The class itself was as awful as I figured it would be but I muddled through. It was much more math intensive than I needed for my major.
The labs (totally separate) though were great! I learned SO much in a very short amount of time. Those I remember to this day. It’s probably how a “concepts” class is meant to be taught. “Show” not “tell”.
The physics building had rooms set up for a series of experiments (you did them on your own time within a certain time frame and then they’d change to a new concept). Busy place. Everything set up in advance to teach a specific concept and spend however long you wanted collecting data and recording results. Physics in action. Fun stuff. And that’s from a “no physics” person.
So “never say never”. If I had met that experience first I would’ve had more appreciation and patience for physics.
thank you for great advice… I’ll pass it all along
Choate is one of those “physics-first” schools. From the curriculum guide:
The idea is that students will get more out of the later chem and bio courses at a deeper level if they start with physics. Our son had a bear of a teacher his first year who also taught in a very conceptual, not-always-by-the-book way. It was brutal at first but, by the end of the year, everything had fallen into place for most of the students as they learned to think about concepts and the problems they were trying to solve without jumping into a formulaic toolkit first. Many students come to BS sciences and math expecting to learn the tools/process first and then be able to decide later on tests which of those formulas best fits the pattern of the question asked. The Choate method was to throw that limit out and break students of rote behavior. It definitely took our son waaaaay out of his comfort zone. He found that he could still get points on a test by describing in detail how he would break down and go about solving a problem he didn’t necessarily have all the parts at his mental disposal to apply. Even later when he had better mastery of those tools, he’d still inject his comments when he knew he was somehow going astray, and that was often the difference between a zero and partial credit. The purpose of the class was to teach students how to think about physics and supply the hammers later.
Now, if every single student in your child’s class is experiencing the same frustration, then this class is not what I’m describing above, and other posters have made some excellent suggestions. I will also add that your first point of contact at BS is your daughter’s advisor. That person not only has a daily eye on your kid and knows her courses and teachers but will also give you some honest feedback about the teacher or whatever s/he feels the real issue is and advise you where to go from there.
Her Dad is flying up tomorrow to take her off campus for winter break - I’ll see if she can set up a time for her advisor to meet with them. Parenting from afar is not easy… thanks ChoatieMom
gout78,
I have to agree with you that some amount of math is required to permit kids to get concepts. Not necessarily a huge amount and some physics can be done freshman year. But the teacher needs to truly accept that this is not going to be a trig/algebra II based class.
My mom tells me the high school I graduated from is doing physics first. I thought it was likely a good idea-- but I don’t actually know. I’m sure it can be implemented well or badly. (I went to Woodlands in Lake Forest.)
copperboom,
I’m going to guess that your daughter’s text book is “Hewitt”? It’s winter which makes it a bit difficult to suggest something that can help a lot– after all, if he hasn’t grasp Newton’s 1st-3rd laws or a few other key things, she’s now got himself in somewhat of a trough.
That said: I might recommend your son watch the videos here:
http://www.conceptualphysics.com/hewitt-drew-it.html
These videos tend to focus on the concept, give a bit of an example and provide a simple application. She’ll have to click through the groups of 10 to find the topic she is currently trying to master. These videos can sometimes help a student and if he finds them useless he can set that notion aside.
I can’t give better advice without knowing more specifics about the class (what his teacher actually expects, is covering order and so on.)
The videos would be even better if connected the student was given follow on questions after each to let the students test whether the really “got” the video. (I’ve done that for students I tutor to make sure the “got” the main idea. The student is assigned the video and then they can answer a few online questions I coded. But I don’t have that squared away as a “product”. I’m not aware of anyone who has made anything like that available either.)
FWIW: It seems to me good teachers tend to resemble each other rather broadly. Bad teachers are often bad in entirely unique ways. Even only semi-bad ones tend to have unique bad ‘issues’. I tutor physics and I know physics is taught in widely different ways at different schools. That makes it challenging to give better advice.
copperboom,
She missed 2 math questions on SAT @ 12)
I think not having math is really making it harder on her- lesson learned…
Yeah. Sounds like a kid who probably would have been better off with Algebra based physics.
Perhaps @payn4ward could weigh in here from a physics perspective.
I will also comment that it sounds like copperkid has a strong math background, certainly strong enough for the course my kid took. Also, for those posting here who are not familiar with boarding schools, they administer tests the summer before entry to ensure students are placed in appropriate level courses, and they use the first few weeks of school to make any necessary adjustments. Sounds to me like the teacher is the issue. The student’s advisor will help resolve this problem.
Good luck, @copperboom, to you and your daughter. I’m sure the adults in her chain of command will find a good solution for her. Parenting from afar IS hard. Hugs.
It seems that many students have the same issue. I would see if the advisor could talk to the department chair or dean of academics.
DS2 also took physics as a freshman concurrently with Algebra 2. However, very few freshmen take Algebra 2 in his school so it was math-limited. I called his class non-algebra-based Physics (cf. non-calculus Physics (AP Physics 1 & 2) vs calculus-based Physics (AP Physics C)).
It seemed it was more like middle school physical science class. He did fine but did not learn much. I would have preferred Biology or Chemistry for freshmen and then later algebra-based Physics in schools like his.
To me, physics without math is like non-alcoholic beer or fat-free bacon. 
The language of physics is math, so non-algebra physics is like Literature without words, which will be incredibly hard and subjective to teach.
At DS1 school it is very hard to switch teachers unless there is another schedule change that forces a section/time change. There are multiple levels of approval needed. Clearly there is something going on here that should be addressed and the advisor can help…
I have heard about the switch to physics in 9th grade, and but didn’t think about the math to go with it - interesting. DS2 is taking physics in 9th grade, with the rest of his grade, definitely with plenty of math. Everyone at his (small day school) school is taking at least Algebra 2 in 9th grade (many are taking Pre-Calc and 2 are taking Calculus), so they are able to run a math-based physics class.
Expressing sympathy here! My D had a dreadful teacher for physics in 9th grade. She was in an advanced math cohort, so that wasn’t the issue. There was a text but they never used it. Rarely got homework and when they did, it was not returned in a timely way. Grade rested almost entirely on very few tests. Projects were poorly conceived and sometimes abandoned mid stream after students had put in considerable work. Her final grade was OK but she felt as though it was a year of science instruction wasted and is reluctant to touch the subject matter again.
I hope this doesn’t turn your child off physics for life! I think a conversation with advisement is warranted. Good luck!