Help us Reduce the number of colleges

College Search & Selection
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<p>Re: Oberlin. The entrance to the Creative Writing Major is limited and upper level courses are only open to majors, I believe. Just check this out if this is truly of interest.</p>

<p>I know you are looking to limit the number of schools, but I did want to throw this one out there: Grinnell College. There is a vibrant music scene there, with the school bringing alot of musicians on campus, whether sponsored by the administration in bigger concerts, the music department or by the well-funded Student Government for more indie music that the students follow. Whether it’s opera (free tickets to the live HD viewings of the Metropolitan Opera), jazz, classical or current indie stuff, there is plenty going on!</p>

<p>I am going to link a few web pages to give you and your D an indication of the possibilities for her there, both with music and with literature and creative writing (Grinnell takes advantage of its proximity to the University of Iowa’s famed MFA program by bringing writers on campus).</p>

<p>[Grinnell</a> College - Student Musicians by Grinnell Sounds & Beyond on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free](<a href=“http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/grinnellsounds/sets/grinnell-college-musicians/]Grinnell”>SoundCloud - Hear the world’s sounds)</p>

<p>[Grinnell</a> Concerts | Grinnell SGA](<a href=“http://sga.grinnell.edu/aggregator/sources/1]Grinnell”>http://sga.grinnell.edu/aggregator/sources/1)</p>

<p>[Music</a> - Music | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/music]Music”>Music | Grinnell College)</p>

<p>[Creative</a> Writing - English | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/english/creative]Creative”>http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/english/creative)</p>

<p>Grinnell is also known for its FA and it does offer merit aid as well.</p>

<p>Also: just about everything on campus is free. Rarely do the students have to buy tickets. I just checked the calendar for today (a Tuesday) and in one of the student lounges, there is an SGA-sponsored concert, a "pop band from New York"on Saturday, a “noise pop band from San Diego” and next Wednesday, a “folk pop indie band from Seattle” and the next Saturday, “Hip-hop with a lean from Dallas.”</p>

<p>Now that I think of it, going through the calendar of any school you’re looking at is a good idea. It gives you an idea of the activities and events on campus. Look through for a few weeks, to be sure you’re getting a clear picture. </p>

<p>If your D goes to a school that is “near” a music scene, but doesn’t offer one on campus, then she also really needs to research how often the students really go into the city to do things.</p>

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<p>Me again :slight_smile: I found this: [Grinnell</a> Concerts |](<a href=“NameBright - Domain Expired”>http://grinnellconcerts.com/) </p>

<p>This is the student-run concert organization. This is in addition to what the school itself brings, as noted above.</p>

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<p>If your daughter cares at all if the college campus is an actual campus, I’d take Emerson off. It’s more like a collection of buildings in Boston than a defined campus.</p>

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<p>If you follow our advice, you’ll cut your list of 11 to 16.</p>

<p>And that’s OK.</p>

25

<p>“She included Goucher, Ursinus and Clark from Colleges That Change Lives, hoping that they would be safety schools for her, and because they offer merit aid.”</p>

<p>How much merit money is your family looking for? Can you readily pay the full Cost of Attendance at any of these institutions, or will it be tight? If you aren’t good for $55k+ each year, for four years, then your daughter needs to pin down one or two dead-on financial safeties that also are dead-on academically safe for her. To that end, I’d suggest that she spend some time in the Financial Aid Forum reading up on the various need-based and merit-based issues ([FinAid</a>! Financial Aid, College Scholarships and Student Loans](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org%5DFinAid”>http://www.finaid.org) is another good resource), and that she take a look at the various threads on guaranteed merit-based aid.</p>

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<p>Still not clear on why OP wants to cut the list to less than 11? That’s not a bad number of applications at all. 15 might be a bit much but it’s perfectly normal in our area to send out that many if you are applying to LACs. If cost is the issue, I would point out that the cost of sending your kid to college (even with a major scholarship) so far exceeds the cost of applying that it’s not worth considering - especially if having multiple financial aid offers matters.</p>

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<p>Thank you all again. I am truly grateful for the different perspectives.
SDonCC: Thanks for the links of Grinnel.</p>

<p>M’s Mom: The reason for the post was that the Guidance Dept in her school said that 7-8 was their average number . So,I thought that if some of the colleges in the list didn’t make it any sense at all or were far too ambitious to even attempt, we would take them off.
Also, some like Skidmore, are a question mark for me as I have read contradictory info about their programs. Likewise,I thought that if Sarah Lawrence is as difficult to get into as the top LACs, should we even keep it? But based on all the input I have recieved from CC, I now understand that 11 or even 15 is an okay number.</p>

<p>happymomof 1: Her GC just advised her to apply to the state school, Rutgers, as financial safety, and she will do that…But, a smaller LAC would be her preference, if we can make it work. It seemed to us that if she gets merit aid, some of the colleges such as Goucher or Emerson would be just as affordable. Is that an incorrect assumption?</p>

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<p>This sortable table is very useful for picking schools that are good for merit aid. Note that there are two tables one for LAC and one for universities, select the type on the left and add optional qualifiers. [Best</a> Values in Private Colleges, 2011-12](<a href=“Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts”>Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts)=ALL&id=none
Of course you also have to check to make sure that the student is a very strong candidate for that school too.</p>

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<p>It is absolutely true that some merit-aid offers can make a private institution less expensive than your home-state public U. Some of the people in the Financial Aid Forum might be able to advise your daughter about her list. Here is one thread with links to many others that will help both of you learn more about merit aid: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt; There also are two older threads started by momfromtexas that offer unbeatable advice on finding merit aid. The link to the original is about two posts down in this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If you have run the Net Price Calculators at the college and university websites, and you realize that your daughter will not qualify for enough need-based aid to make the institutions affordable, then she may want to consider casting a wider net in the hope of finding merit aid.</p>

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<p>Of the 7 schools S was accepted to, the 2 in-state publics wound up being the most expensive of all. 5 privates (some CTCL, some not) all offered better packages.</p>

<p>Also, Rutgers is not a good pick for a safety if she wouldn’t be happy to go there.</p>

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<p>My son is a freshman at Skidmore and loves it. He will be a Science major but wanted a LA school that had a creative vibe. He spends free time “jamming” with all kinds of people, because almost everyone is a musician of some sort. He is challenged by the academics and is enjoying everything about this campus and the beautiful town of Saratoga Springs. Skidmore doesn’t offer very much in merit aid, but the Skidmore Grant was more generous than any of the other schools he applied to.</p>

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<p>FWIW, a friend just returned from Parents Weekend at Clark, and while her freshman kid is happy there, she remarked on how the college is a small oasis in the middle of a dump (something she hadn’t appreciated during their college tour trip, because they had just gotten off and on the highway instead of checking out the city). Worcester is, and has always been, a really downtrodden place, though it’s close enough to Boston to allow for weekend trips there. But if your daughter would like a vibrant environment outside the college gates, she won’t find it in Worcester.</p>

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<p>ordinary, a few questions: Do you NEED financial aid, or just want it? If you need it, do you qualify for need based aid, or do you have to get merit? This distinction makes a huge difference as many colleges (including some on your daughter’s list) offer need based aid but don’t offer merit.</p>

<p>Could you clarify what your daughter is looking for in music? Does she want a good department with performance opportunities – orchestra, ensembles etc? Or is she looking for an indie music scene? What are the genres that she’s into?</p>

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<p>It’s not. Not if by “top LACs” you mean the USNWR top 50 or so. Princeton Review rates SLC “85” for admission difficulty (close to Hampshire’s 86, less than Bennington’s 89 or Skidmore’s 93).</p>

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<p>Rutgers’ total COA is what, about $25K? COA at private LACs typically is $50K or more (with a few nice exceptions like Centre College at ~$43K). So, to get your LAC COA down to Rutgers territory, we could be talking about a merit award of more than $25K. The only LAC on the Kiplinger chart that awards average merit grants that large is W&L, if you take out schools that award merit only to very few students (3% or less). W&L awards merit to 15% of their students … but W&L is a high-ranking LAC with an 18% admit rate; the OP’s D may not be among the top 15% of admitted students.</p>

<p>At private LACs, merit aid probably should be thought of, in most cases, as a nice discount for full-pay students … not as a substitute for need-based aid. For it to fill the gap between EFC and what you can truly afford, or to bring the net COA down to public school range, you need to shop carefully for a school where your kid will be very competitive, or where the COA starts out relatively low, or some combination (like Centre College, maybe).</p>

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<p>Clark is a little cheaper than many of the other schools under discussion, $41,250. %students receiving merit aid is 63%, average award is $13,763. So if she gets an above average award, say $20K, then it looks like a good deal.
Clark kids take advantage of the Woobus to travel to other campuses in the consortium as well as shopping, restaurants, DCU Center (arena), theatres etc. So while the immediate neighborhood is not good, there are options nearby and transportation to get there and back.</p>

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<p>Jamiecl: Thanks for the info on Skidmore grants.
momrath: Paying full tuition is quite a stretch for us, but we will not qualify for significant financial aid. I guess we are like many middle class parents in this respect. We are thinking that we have to make it work somehow, if she gets into a really good college of her choice that has only need based aid.
tk21769: Thanks for explaining how merit aid would not fill the EFC to WIP (what I can pay) gap. I also realized that being above the mid range of SAT scores and GPA in a college still puts her only in the top 25% and not automatically in the 5% that gets the scholarships.
BeanTownGirl: Thank you for all the info on Clark. We are visiting soon and hope to decide then.</p>

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<p>“We are thinking that we have to make it work somehow, if she gets into a really good college of her choice that has only need based aid.”</p>

<p>Please re-read your sentence. There is a big difference between “we have to make it work”, and “we will see if we can make it work” or “we will try to make it work”. No one “has to” in this situation. If your budget won’t stretch enough, accept that, and move on. Paying for college is just part of your family’s entire financial situation, and ought to be considered within that larger framework.</p>

<p>Since you have come up with your own WIP, give that figure to your daughter, and tell her that is the figure to keep her college costs under. There are lots of schools out there, you have a smart kid, she will figure out how to make it work. I can’t recall if this child is an only, or the first of several. If there are others following behind, read through some of the posts from cptofthehouse in the Financial Aid Forum. She has written several posts on the long-term results for the whole family of giving in to the parents’ sense that they “had to make it work” for the first child’s dream school.</p>