Please help us shorten The List

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I would love for my D to shorten her list of applications! Almost all the schools she's interested in have supplements that require thoughtful writing and I'm worried she might be stretched too thin to do them all well. (Her common app essay is done - and good - and she has jotted notes about the supplemental questions, but tends to take a LONG time doing the actual writing.) Every time we go through the list there are good reasons to keep each school. Care to help?</p>

<p>Stats:
3.7 gpa (unweighted), high-level IB courses
31 ACT</p>

<p>Interests/personality:
• Heavily involved in music (voice and multiple instruments) and theater - likely minor, not major
• Not sure about major - likes learning in general, LOVES GOOD TEACHERS
• Very urban kid, likes interesting, intellectual, light-hearted people
• Also loves wilderness (believes it helps her stay balanced with all of the above)
• We live in Minneapolis. D would love the experience of living in a milder climate!</p>

<p>Financial picture: We've done the practice FAFSA and ought to qualify for institutional aid at most schools. Our EFC isn't totally out of reach but makes us a little nervous (we're self-employed, uncertain times, etc.). Merit aid would be excellent.</p>

<p>The schools:</p>

<p>Oberlin: Visited. LOVED it. Bit of a reach though? We know kids with, I think, similar stats who were not admitted.</p>

<p>Whitman: Visited. Liked it a lot. Excellent theater program. Sunny!</p>

<p>Colorado College: Have not visited. D really likes the idea of the block plan. </p>

<p>Pitzer: Have not visited. D likes what she sees online, the down-to-earth, hippy vibe, access to other Claremonts a big plus. Are students as serious about academics as they are about feelin' groovy?</p>

<p>Bard: Visited. Fantastic student tour guide, beautiful campus. Cool that it's fairly close to NYC. D likes the arty edgy thing, but are they happy? Too cliquey?</p>

<p>St. Olaf: Too close to home, too homogeneous, but great music & theater programs, good merit aid. Excellent safety school.</p>

<p>Lawrence U: Visited, liked it when she was there, but she went to Oberlin the next day and pretty much forgot all about Lawrence -- and it hasn't gained luster since. Probably a good safety.</p>

<p>St. Mary's, Maryland: Have not visited. D is attracted to beautiful location, it appears to be strong academically, but fairly relaxed. Since it's a public school, most students are from in state. Does a lack of geographic diversity make a student body much less interesting? I honestly don't know. Safety?</p>

<p>UNC Asheville (Honors Coll): Already applied on a lark (easy app) for similar reasons as St. Marys. Safety</p>

<p>UW Madison: $ reciprocity with MN. Financial safety.</p>

<p>I'm embarrassed this is so long, but I thought I'd lay it all out there. This process is kinda crazy-making, especially if you're drawn to small LACs, money is an issue, and you're not able to visit them all. Too many bases to cover and we don't want to assume she's a shoo-in anywhere. Thanks to anyone who is willing to weigh in!</p>

2

<p>: We’ve done the practice FAFSA and ought to qualify for institutional aid at most schools. Our EFC isn’t totally out of reach but makes us a little nervous (we’re self-employed, uncertain times, etc.). Merit aid would be excellent.</p>

<p>You may not understand FA. FAFSA doesn’t indicate how much institutional aid you’ll get. Most schools do not have much (or any) institutional aid to give.</p>

<p>EFC is just a number to see if you qualify for any federal aid (sounds like you only qualify for federal loans).</p>

<p>Schools don’t have to do ANYTHING with that EFC number except see what LITTLE federal aid you might get. Again, your EFC is likely too high for free federal money (if EFC is about like 5000).</p>

<p>You say that paying your EFC might be difficult, but typically people have to pay MORE than their EFC…often MUCH more.</p>

<p>You say that UW-M is a safety. Can you pay all costs there? They aren’t going to give you aid except for maybe a small loan.</p>

<p>St. Mary’s Maryland and other OOS publics aren’t going to be sources for need-based financial aid.</p>

<p>Others can comment about how much aid the other schools give. </p>

<p>Again, most schools don’t meet need and don’t have much institutional aid to give.</p>

<p>As for merit scholarships…your D would qualify for some at SOME schools (don’t know about your list), but many had Dec 1st deadlines for scholarships.</p>

<p>Hopefully, others can recommend schools that would give your D big merit for her stats.</p>

<p>For merit to reduce your EFC, it has to be very large to cover all of need and then “cut into” EFC.</p>

3

<p>Between our two kids, we looked at a number of the schools on your list. I can offer support on Bard. Seems very in line with your daughter’s music minor, good teachers, urban/rural, intellectual kids priorities. We were very impressed by many aspects of the school, including how “into it” students were. We have a number of friends with students there now or recently, uniformly very happy. The school is socially committed, a bit different but not too much so, etc. Personally – and I am sure there are others who will disagree strongly – we found the block plan better in theory than practice during an admitted students program. Several professors griped about it, which seemed odd, and it didn’t seem very attuned to research or language study. We weren’t as impressed with Oberlin as we expected, but still liked it. Those stats don’t make it a sure thing, but certainly not impossible. St. Mary’s gets many good reviews, but being one of the few kids from out of state is definately an issue. Lawrence produced one of the smartest of my younger colleagues and has the music aspect, too. Many people think it is a lesser known gem, if your daughter is confident enough for that. Pitzer is probably also a good match; we know someone there who makes great use of the very real consortium that broadens chances of finding great teachers and serious students considerably.</p>

<p>Good luck. I would tend to the benefits of applying to more schools, given you are serious about this, want a the LAC, and need aid. It is crazy-making, so I hope this helps.</p>

4

<p>I’ll try to address your question of what to drop.</p>

<p>Drop Madison. It doesn’t fit. I’d drop it in favor of UMinn-Morris which is a LAC.
Also UNC Asheville is one of the more affordable OOS schools is that too much to be a financial safety? I’d drop St Mary’s which is really a lot more money for OOS. You may also want to look at Truman State which is only a $1000 money than Morris even though it’s OOS. </p>

<p>I don’t think it’s too many schools. I think the most difficult one to get into in the bunch is Pitzer, but it’s not an unreasonable reach. I think Oberlin is maybe 50-50. The rest seem likely to safe. </p>

<p>Isn’t St Olaf really conservative because of the religious bent? It’s hard to see someone who likes Bard and Pitzer liking it. </p>

<p>So I might leave
Oberlin
Whitman
Colorado
Pitzer
Bard
Lawrence
UNC Asheville
UMinn-Morris or Truman State (pick one)</p>

<p>That’s down from 10 to 8.</p>

5

<p>As mom2collegekids points out, what you refer to as safety schools may be academic safeties but not financial safeties. It is always a good idea to lay out the college list on a spread sheet making sure you list them by important deadline dates, scholarship consideration deadlines being an important one. Applying to 10 schools really is not an excessive number and many times supplemental essays can be tweaked a little and reused at many other schools. This is really “crunch time” so your daughter needs to hunker down and fit this into her already busy schedule. Good luck!</p>

6

<p>For sure keep Oberlin and St. Olaf for the quality undergraduate teaching, Whitman and Colorado for the outdoorsiness, and UNC-Asheville for both.</p>

<p>If you’re looking to trim, I would kick out St. Mary’s and Lawrence.</p>

7

<p>I’d keep Madison as a financial safety–if you can get reciprocity, it’s the cheapest one on your list. You have to have a financial safety.</p>

<p>St. Olaf has a December 15 deadline for music scholarship applications, which is earlier than the regular application deadline, so you might want to focus on that first. It requires that a CD recording be submitted.</p>

8

<p>I don’t think 10 is too many, esp. for students who like LACs and need financial help. The private schools seem to yield very, very different FA/merit packages. You can have 2 schools that appear the same in all aspects & then be surprised by the final packages.</p>

<p>If you really need to drop a school, then I also recommend St. Mary’s. I think it is a gem for MD residents, but OOS costs aren’t cheap and from what you describe it may prove too remote for your daughter and feel quite small after the first year.</p>

<p>I personally love Oberlin, Colorado and Pitzer. I would not drop off any of those. The Claremont consortium just seems to offer so much and unlike other “receiprical” institutions, it is easy to actually take classes from the different colleges without logistical issues.</p>

<p>You may also want to attack the list trimming in another way – which supplements look to be the most daunting to her?</p>

9

<p>Wow! Thanks for all the quick replies!</p>

<p>mom2collegekids:
I’ve done quite a bit of research into financing college and many of your comments here run contrary to what I’ve learned. You are correct that the FAFSA does not determine institutional aid, but every college we’ve looked at requires the FAFSA if you need aid because they use it (and the CSS profile) to determine your financial package. Many, many LACs give considerable need-based aid to middle class students. And many of the private schools on my Ds list say they meet demonstrated need. </p>

<p>We will not qualify for federal grants. Madison (and MN) tuition is pretty close to what our EFC comes to. We’re ok with that amount – but not a heck of a lot more without taking on more debt than we’re comfortable with.</p>

<p>I’ve had my doubts about getting much help from OOS publics (St. Mary’s) but I’ve seen threads here that indicate that it’s not unheard of. Anyone else have experience with this? </p>

<p>ClassicRockerDad:
St. Olaf isn’t as conservative as you’d think! Not edgy for sure - and quite white - but we know several creative kids from liberal families who have been very happy there. The Lutheran tradition there is not heavy at all and seems to be of the Scandinavian progressive variety politically.</p>

10

<p>Justy FYI, though still very selective, I don’t beliee that the evidence would show Pitzer as the most selective on the list. Oberlin, Colorado College, and Bard are all more selective, at least by the numbers. But the real point is, as other say, dealing with the small number of admits for LACs and the differnet FA packages, this is not too many schools.</p>

11

<p>*I’ve done quite a bit of research into financing college and many of your comments here run contrary to what I’ve learned. You are correct that the FAFSA does not determine institutional aid, but every college we’ve looked at requires the FAFSA if you need aid because they use it (and the CSS profile) to determine your financial package. Many, many LACs give considerable need-based aid to middle class students. And many of the private schools on my Ds list say they meet demonstrated need. *</p>

<p>I think you misunderstood my post.</p>

<p>It is VERY true that MOST schools do not have much institutional aid to give. Most schools cannot meet need. That is a fact. And, most people have to pay more than their EFCs. That is also true. and, FAFSA EFC is not an indication of how much institutional aid you’re going to get.</p>

<p>You mentioned that a few of the schools are “safeties”…Well no school is a true safety if you’re not certain that you’ll have all costs covered. For a school like St. Mary’s, UW-M, or UNC-A having all costs covered might be doubtful. Am I wrong?</p>

<p>I wasn’t really addressing whether most schools on your list do or don’t meet aid since I don’t know each schools’ individual aid policy. However, I do know that schools like UNC-Ashville and UW-M don’t meet aid for OOS kids. </p>

<p>Yes, every school requires FAFSA if you want aid. No question there. And, for the schools that use CSS Profile, it’s anyone’s guess what they might expect your family to pay. It’s easier to “meet need” when the school gets to decide what your need is. And, sometimes CSS schools are not generous to the self-employed (because they add some deductions back in). </p>

<p>Madison (and MN) tuition is pretty close to what our EFC comes to. We’re ok with that amount – but not a heck of a lot more without taking on more debt than we’re comfortable with.</p>

<p>Do you meant “tuition” or Cost of Attendance? If you mean tuition that those schools’ tuition (about $12k per year) is your EFC?</p>

<p>So, at a school like UW-M, the COA for Minn resident is about $21k (plus personal expenses and travel costs). If you’re comfortable with paying $12k and your child takes out a $5500 student loan, then you’ll probably still have to come up with another $3500. So, your contribution would be about $15,500. That’s what I meant by often having to pay more than EFC. </p>

<p>If you’re confident that the LACs that are on your list will not determine a high family contribution for you, AND they will meet need, then great! Don’t take any of those schools off your list. :)</p>

12

<p>I must agree with most everything mom2collegekids stated.</p>

<p>“Meeting need” will likely mean something VERY different to the college than it will to you. It is almost always a rude awakening. This is especially true of schools which use the CSS/Profile in addition to the FAFSA. Oberlin, Whitman, Bard, Colorado College, Pitzer, and St. Olaf all require it.</p>

<p>Another issue which was touched on above is the fact that most schools which offer merit aid have very early deadlines for this consideration. At more than half of the schools my daughter applied or is applying to (the majority of which were chosen because they offer at least moderate merit money), the deadline for top scholarships has already passed. I cannot comment on whether this is the case for the colleges you mentioned because, while all very good schools, they either did not offer substantial merit aid or used the Profile to calculate EFC, which placed them outside our ability to pay.</p>

13

<p>Yes. We’re ok with the COST OF ATTENDANCE with our state and reciprocal schools. I’ll try to be more precise next time. </p>

<p>My question was about a specific list of schools that we have researched. That’s why they’re on the list. Whether MOST schools out there offer institutional aid isn’t really relevant. Some (no, not all) are on our list because they have a published record of fairly generous aid to families in our income bracket. We know that nothing is guaranteed. That’s why I posted. Because the variables are complicated and I want to learn from others’ experience about these PARTICULAR schools, both in terms of culture and possible aid. </p>

<p>Thanks, all! Keep 'em coming!</p>

14

<p>I would keep all 10. Think of it as buying more swings at the financial aid pi</p>

15

<p>UNC-Asheville, their graduation rate for 4 years is very low!
You can look at college search websites & check it out yourself. </p>

<p>That really is not a good thing if your child enrolls at a school & most of her friends she made during Freshman Year all drop out or transfer.</p>

16

<p>Kwrinkle, I sent you a private message.</p>

17

<p>I have to lobby for keeping Bard on the list since my daughter was just accepted and it was her one and only choice. It has everything you’re looking for: small classes planned around intelligent discussion, and is within easy reach of both NYC and wilderness (or at least dense woods). I’m just not sure about financial assistance. We don’t have need (Ha, according to FAFSA anyway), but when my older daughter applied four years ago, she was offered very little merit scholarship money compared to what she was offered at other schools.
Also, you can submit a graded paper as the essay, so that might help you timewise. And, if your d plays an unusual instrument, she may have a good shot at getting into the conservatory. (I hear they have enough flutes.)</p>

18

<p>Leave Whitman on the list. My son goes there and loves it. The kids are really bright and involved in EVERYTHING. The theater program is amazing and the outdoor program is very active. The sun shines 300 days a year, but they do have seasons, including winter. There are a couple of inches of snow on the ground right now. It’s a great school that really cares about the students. I think Walla Walla is great little town.</p>

<p>My son applied to 13 schools and I’m glad he did. The financial aid offers (both merit and need-based) were all over the map. I thought I understood the system, only to find that each institution seems to have it’s own twist on the formulas. I also think admissions are effected by what the admissions team is after that particular cycle. Do they need more geographic diversity or more student body presidents? More musicians or more soccer players? In other words, you can’t figure it out. 10 is not too many.</p>

19

<p>Here are a couple of links you might find helpful in predicting what aid to expect from private LACs.
[Trinity</a> College: Financial Aid Facts](<a href=“http://www.trincoll.edu/orgs/planning/publicdata/FinancialAid.html]Trinity”>http://www.trincoll.edu/orgs/planning/publicdata/FinancialAid.html)
[url=&lt;a href=“Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts”&gt;Kiplinger | Personal Finance News, Investing Advice, Business Forecasts]Best</a> Values in Private Colleges, 2010-11<a href=“I%20especially%20like%20the%20way%20Trinity%20College%20lays%20out%20this%20information%20because%20it%20is%20keyed%20to%20specific%20income%20brackets.”>/url</a></p>

<p>The “Common Data Set” file, available to download from many college sites, has more details.</p>

<p>In your situation, I don’t think 10 is too many. It looks like a well-selected list. I wish you had already taken advantage of the EA option offered by Colorado College (and possibly others) because then you’d have a better idea within a few weeks whether you need to add another safety or two.</p>

<p>I’d be inclined to add a MN public school that you are very confident you can afford. The issue is not so much whether these schools are generous in meeting determined need (many of them are). It is that each school ultimately determines its own interpretation of need, one that might not match yours at all.</p>

<p>My S was admitted to St. Mary’s College of MD and Colorado College. He also liked Whitman but it was too far away. For an urban kid who loves wilderness, Colorado College is just about ideal. SMCM? Maybe not so much. Although it is a wonderful school, you have a long plane ride to get there, then a ~1.5 hour car trip out from the airport to a fairly remote waterfront setting. I suspect that after aid offers, your out of pocket for SMCM and the private schools would be fairly close.</p>

20

<p>We had initially discouraged Whitman because of the travel time and expense, but then we took a northwest road trip last summer and the whole family felt happy in Walla Walla! Add in all the other pluses you mention and Whitman’s been high on my daughter’s list ever since. Your application experience with your son is a story we’ve been hearing a lot. I’m glad things worked out well!</p>