@Mastadon Tufts does look great. I am reluctant to put in the mix because of cost. I have run the NPCs using one and two kids in college and see the general difference. Having two students at once appears to change the need but I am really reluctant to get in a situation where we are depending on those changes in subsequent years.
@Proudpatriot Thank you! RIT looks similar to what I have seen with RPI (based on scholarship details on their websites). Looks great and merit aid is likely. The merit just doesn’t cover enough of the very high tuition costs to make it a realistic option for us. 20k in merit (at most) can reduce costs down to 35k which just isn’t low enough for us to do times 3 kids.
@gandalf78 I am reluctant to go for any super competitive scholarship that is looking for the premier “leadership” qualities. I read these things and actually get really annoyed by what they expect from these kids. I am letting my kids go where their hearts take them and do not encourage over the top ECs to put on college apps. I hope that this overdone “leadership” stuff is apparent in the application process and that admissions reps see through this stuff - but probably not. Sorry - venting a bit on this here haha :).
Vanderbilt and Tulane. She can apply EA to Tulane. Both have great merit aid and Vandy is number 1 in FA. CMU has a few merit scholarships and Case Western gives good aid. Good luck!
University of South Carolina offers big money for high scores (not sure about their engineering or art programs). USC (California) definitely has both engineering :& art and offers merit money for NMS. Does University of Rochester, or either Lehigh/Lafayette offer merit money?
Harvey Mudd College is a small, STEM school, with a liberal arts approach to STEM education. It is part of the Claremont consortium, so you have classes at the other schools available, so it feels like a bigger school. HMC has done a good job at bringing about a gender equity at the school. It does offer some merit scholarships, you would have to run the NPC to see if it might work for you. It has an innovative engineering program.
“20k in merit (at most) can reduce costs down to 35k which just isn’t low enough for us to do times 3 kids.”
Once the second kid hits college, the first will get more FA, which could mean more merit or grant, but maybe more loans or work-study, so I wouldn’t eliminate a college because you think that you can’t afford them down the road. If your EFC is 35K for all three kids, then that’s what you’ll have to contribute, when the second one enters college, it will be 17.5K for both. Your first one will get more FA, no doubt, again assuming no major changes income/assets, you need to ask the FA office at schools of interest if typically that mean more loans, more grant, more merit (though that’s probaby not likely), work-study.
I know you said not interested in the south, but I saw this NPR article this morning about Rice greatly increasing grants for incomes up to $200K. Great school w/ excellent engineering.
Having a significant number of criteria and deal-breakers, & eliminating gigantic portions of the country (especially those areas of the country where merit aid is especially plentiful) for no apparent reason are luxuries that might best be enjoyed by those for whom being full-pay is but a minor inconvenience.
You have significant financial restrictions & future obligations. Don’t be surprised if sooner or later you find yourself trying to convince at least one of your kids that unfortunately cost is going to have to trump a lot of other criteria.
I think you already have a few good possibilities. Has your daughter visited them?
Have you run the NPC on some of the reachy, meet full need schools that are generous with FA, to see how it would shake out?
She should look at Rice. Houston is in the southwest, but is not old south like AL. MS, GA, LA etc. Rice just announced a groundbreaking aid program for families making less than 200k/year. Rice also gives merit aid. It is a great engineering school but also has great studio art offerings. https://vada.rice.edu Many students double major or take classes in the VADA area (visual art and design) https://admission.rice.edu
As a merit-seeking family on a tight budget (smaller than yours but with more than twice the number of kids), I would highly recommend double checking some of the information bc even with top merit, they will still be beyond your budget, and definitely not the hopefully lower. (Btdt with multiple kids.) Case will not get down to $20-25k or less with merit alone. If your income is above $130,000 and below $200,000, tuition a at Rice would be $23,300 plus fees, room, and board. If your income is less than $130,000 you would receive free tuition and then it would fit your criteria. Multiple children in college does not automatically reduce your parental contribution to 50/50. At generous meet-need schools, you might see a 60/60 split, but only a small percentage of schools offer that degree of institutional aid and if your child is not enrolled in that type of school, you won’t see any difference. (You need to know how the FA at the school functions.)
If you want to see your “hopefully” costs less than $20k, you are really seeking full tuition scholarships bc even with full tuition, you are looking at around $15,000 in room and board costs. NMF scholarships are probably going to be your most attractive option in terms of number of schools offering large $$ scholarships.
Fwiw, I have had kids apply for competitive scholarships. You are correct in assuming the competition is fierce. If you want to ensure high $$ merit, automatic merit based on stats is a solid approach. But as @moooop pointed out, you can’t really be picky when seeking high merit. Geography is probably the area of least control bc not all areas of the country are equal in number of schools offering high merit, especially when seeking ABET accredited programs. Competitive merit covers a broader range of schools, but then, as you pointed out, they are a long shot for anyone, even for competive kids with exceptional ECs. Competitive merit is the equivalent of applying to a high reach school. Definitely worth trying for a couple if they match your student’s profile.
Linking a list from Forbes for the best schools for women in STEM. Also, at the page, there is a link to an article based on a study about women in STEM fields and their college experiences.
This list is a little old, but the schools on it still enjoy the same reputation, so I still use it.
She might check out the Penn State Millennium Scholars program. A friend of dd’s was accepted and received a full ride plus. It’s a tough admit but might be worth a shot. Her “diversity” was being female in STEM.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek has it exactly right. Assuming your income is in the $150K-$200K range or higher, need-based aid is not going to get you to a $20K cost of attendance even at the most generous schools. So your first requirement for any OOS/privates should be “does it offer a full tuition merit scholarship” and then you can consider how competitive that scholarship is. Most of the suggestions in this thread don’t pass that initial threshold.
@Sam-I-Am Definitely going to investigate Tulane EA. Thanks for the tip.
@moooop I totally agree with all you said. Information provided from several responses here has opened our eyes about southern schools that were not on our radar - Tulane, Rice, Duke. These are likely still out of our reach, but taking a closer look.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek@Twoin18 Thank you! You really nailed what I have been finding. My goal with this post was to try to identify other places (outside NMF) that her stats might give her a good chance at competing for merit that would make it affordable for us. My research has not turned up much and the responses here, while interesting, don’t add much to the mix for affordability. It looks think the bottom line is that there are not many options outside the highly competitive scholarship competitions. We might try for a couple of those - the applications look onerous considering the odds. She has worked hard and I want to help her leverage her accomplishments as much as possible.
@BB Support for women in stem is another part that really hasn’t even occurred to me. I will investigate more on this when it comes to the final list. That criteria might be another luxury that we cannot afford
College list is looking like this. 13 schools seems like a lot. I guess hoping for merit you need to throw a wide net… In looking at at this I am pleased that her safety schools are truly great options and she will do great wherever she goes.
Reach for Merit
USC
Boston University
WUSTL
University of Portland
Tulane - (based on suggestion - thank you!)
CWRU - (based on suggestion - need to look closer at merit scholarship options and stats)
Reach for Need (she’s determined to apply to these :))
Columbia
Stanford
Safety Schools
University of Florida – NMF scholarship
UCF - NMF scholarship (based on suggestion - thank you!)
U of A - auto scholarship
ASU - auto scholarship
University of Utah –scholarship looks very promising, no news yet
It was almost our exact situation, with one in school having an EFC of $38k, and when there were two about $17-19k each. That EFC of $17k will get you exactly no additional federal aid. No Pell, and whether there is work study or SEOG or subsidized loans is up to the school. Their schools (one public, one private) gave no need based aid for a $17k EFC. The merit awards were set the first year and didn’t change. If I had expected two to go to school on that $35k budget, I would have been very disappointed.
I think planning to spend $35k per year as a family and assuming the schools will give you a ‘2-for-1’ coupon is a mistake. Maybe Princeton will, and agrees to reduce the cost by $17k, but if the other school gaps the aid, you are going to be short funds.
I would see if there are additional public honors colleges with merit aid that might be of interest. You already have some good ones in your safety list, including in-state, but South Carolina also seems to get a lot of attention, perhaps New Mexico too as its close. Did you consider UTD or Texas Tech? With 5-10 possibilities here you may want to visit and/or consider which locations would be more attractive than your in-state options.
Then you might prioritize the Reach for Merit list based on competitiveness and how much effort is required - I’m skeptical about the probability of getting full tuition at BU and note that at CWRU you’d be competing for the handful of named scholarships (as opposed to the $25K-$28K merit that is relatively easy to come by but still leaves a $40K+ COA). And I’m not convinced University of Portland offers more than a flagship public honors college unless you particularly like Portland.
But overall I think 12-15 applications would be about right - that’s what my twins each applied to last year (albeit with the UCs requiring no additional effort).
OP, I would add MIT, Caltech and CMU to the list. Though the schools do not offer merit aid their need based aid can be quite generous.
Moreover, schools like MIT actively recruit female engineering students. As a result, girl admission rate at MIT is at least twice as high as average rate, probably around 13%, a much better chance than Stanford or Columbia.
@jilywily … Your situation is quite complicated, & it will take a while to digest the relevant details …one of which is that the usual targets for applicants with your daughter’s lofty credentials are not necessarily the best options for her particular intended major.
It might seem counter-intuitive, but there are plenty of people on college confidential who think that the payoff for going to a somewhat elite college over more mundane schools isn’t usually tangible in the field of engineering. In other words, getting an engineering degree from the likes of Vanderbilt/NYU/U of Southern California doesn’t necessarily put you significantly ahead of those engineers who went to the likes of Texas Tech/Iowa State/Florida State. Since the latter type tends to be cheaper to begin with, and also often offers more in merit aid, they are worth looking into for people in your particular circumstances.
@moooop Thank you for this input. I have thought this on an intuitive level, but it is nice to hear that it is a real thing based on experience. We are up against a school culture that has students thinking they need to go to an elite school to be “successful”.
@jilywily You’ll read it here on CC as well. As the parent of a chemE who went to a small unknown tech u and now has a fabulous career (college grad 2011), our perspective matches @moooop’s. Our current college grad just graduated from Bama and is now a grad student at one of the very top grad program’s for his desired field. Our current UG college student is a Top Scholar at USCarolina and loves it there. She currently has an in-field academic yr paid internship, great dept and faculty mentors…very happy with her choice to attend there. Our kids have had nothing but positive experiences and 100% faculty support at their very avg public Us. (and all of them have attended on majority scholarship $$.) And, no, their outcomes have not been negatively impacted at all. They work/attend right alongside top program grads.
