Need advice for daughter's college search

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I hope I am doing this right! </p>

<p>First, I've been lurking on CC for...forever it seems! Whenever I had a question about college stuff for my daughter I automatically came here and always found what I needed, so thanks!!</p>

<p>Now we are really in the heat of the college search and I have a fairly specific question so I plucked up my nerve, created an account, and now...BEG for help from the very knowledgeable CC community!</p>

<p>My daughter attends a poorly performing, (as in officially did not meet federal education standards last year) large public school in Illinois. About 3000 students, average ACT Composite 20. They do offer 21 AP classes but only have about 25% participate in AP classes. They don't have Naviance (grrr) but we do know that one student last year went to Yale, he is a URM and we don't have any idea if any others have gone on to Ivies assume not many if any.</p>

<p>Now, my daughter is a straight A, all honors or AP classes, top 1% of her class student who is a varsity athlete and does peer tutoring and a few clubs as well as NHS and N Spanish HS. She will have 8 or 9 AP classes by the time she graduates. PLAN test predicts an ACT score of 28-32, she took a practice test administered by the school and got a 29 in September without any prep or practice so I'm thinking that she will end up between 31-33. Her counselor told her she MAY be in range for NMSF based on a practice test they did in a prep class. She's also first generation and a female engineering student.</p>

<p>She, and a lot of family & friends are all convinced she's headed for Ivy schools or WashU or UChicago.</p>

<p>OK so here is my dilemma ... Do I encourage her to pursue these high level universities? Or try to shepherd her towards something a tier or two below that? Knowing that even though she's top of HER class she may not be prepared for or accepted to these schools. I don't want to steer her the wrong way if she is indeed the right kind of student for high level academic schools. Everyone on CC seems so much more qualified, AKA ranked/private HS plus all kinds of crazy ECs and still they are all sweating it out over acceptances as well.</p>

<p>As far as finances go, we can only afford about $10-15K per year which is some $$ from her grandparents. The Net price calculators that I have done, like for WashU offer us a lot of financial aid and end up about $15K.</p>

<p>Thank you in advance for any and all advice. The college search and admissions process really is a maze for those of us who are complete newbies to this world.</p>

2

<p>It can’t hurt to try for those universities although do have matches and safeties. Also, a 20 ACT indicates that your daughter attends an average high school (in fact that ACT score is pretty much the national average). Is she a junior of senior? If she’s a junior and makes NMSF, she’ll have quite a few options as far as safety schools go. If she’s a senior, the deadline to apply for NMSF has already passed.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your reply :slight_smile: She is a junior, I think the scores for PSAT come out in December.</p>

4

<p>Simple advice: counsel your daughter to put together a balanced list of reach/match/safety.</p>

<p>The number of each really depends on

  1. How much time and energy (and money)she can put into the applications
  2. How safe and appropriate her safety is
  3. Chances of getting adequate financial aid</p>

<p>So let’s take #2 first: Find a good safety that she likes well enough (meaning that she – and you – don’t break out in hives at the thought of attending it) and that you can afford. This could be your State U or could be a private that offers good value in admissions and financial aid. Smith is one that comes to mind.</p>

<p>Once she has one or two safeties, she can take more risks on the rest of her list.</p>

<p>Most of the Ivy League and other top ranked colleges are reaches for just about everyone. Right now, your daughter seems to be in the admissions ballpark, so, yes, she should apply. Again, the number depends on the number that she can handle. Applying to 10-12 or even more reaches and matches is not unusual. The greater your financial needs, the wider your net has to be.</p>

<p>Aside from the more selective schools, don’t worry too much about which are low reaches and which are high matches. Just help her put together a balanced list of schools that would fit her personality and learning style.</p>

<p>Running the net price calculators is the best way to get advanced warning on how much need based aid you might be eligible for. Ironically, the most selective colleges often provide the best aid. There are also quite a few excellent colleges that offer merit aid. Start researching the field. You might also check to see if your daughter would be eligible for QuestBridge.</p>

<p>As far as how she’ll do once she matriculates, I wouldn’t worry about that too much either. Academically rigorous schools have plenty of safety nets to help students acclimate. If they accept you, they will do what they can to help you succeed. </p>

<p>As a side note, if she is worried about being thrown into what she may perceive as an impersonal bureaucratic environment, she might consider some smaller liberal arts colleges which offer more nurturing and support. Not too many of them also offer engineering, but there are a few. In addition to Smith mentioned above, look at Swarthmore. If engineering isn’t a deal breaker, there are plenty that offer excellent math and sciences.</p>

<p>And lastly, if she’s willing and able to play her sport at a varsity level she should start contacting coaches now. This can be a big boost.</p>

5

<p>Unfortunately, Illinois publics are not that good with financial aid even for in-state students. Run their net price calculators to see what their net prices are likely to be.</p>

<p>At your net price limit, you are probably looking at:</p>

<p>a. Generous-with-financial aid schools – usually the most selective ones.</p>

<p>b. Less selective schools that will give her a large scholarship. See these sticky threads in the financial aid and scholarships forum:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378&lt;/a&gt; (safety candidates)
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-post16224918.html#post16224918[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-post16224918.html#post16224918&lt;/a&gt; (reach/match candidates)
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation-post16465904.html#post16465904[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation-post16465904.html#post16465904&lt;/a&gt; (if National Merit)</p>

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<p>There are small schools with engineering focus, such as:</p>

<p>Caltech
Cooper Union
Harvey Mudd
New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Polytechnic Institute of New York University (but will become the engineering division of the much larger New York University)
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
South Dakota School of Mines and Technology (low list price, so not much financial aid or scholarships needed to become affordable)
Stevens Institute of Technology
Worchester Polytechnic Institute</p>

<p>However, you need to check net price after financial aid and scholarships.</p>

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<p>If she likes wash u she needs to apply for their programs or science/engineering camps this summer. Apply as wait and see if she is accepted. This can be a huge advantage if she ends up wanting to go there. In fact any school she may be interested in she might do a similar approach. A boy in my daughters class did this and made a very favorable impression and will most likely apply there. It is also a chance for her to see each school and check them out. Their summer programs are pretty involved and will test each student in a positive way. Also have her start looking for scholarships NOW. Lots out there for juniors that get overlooked. She may want to look into trying for girls state. Wash u has a scholarship for girls who go to girls state. BBB ethics award for mo/il students another 2500. My daughter got lots of awards and some scholarships her junior year and it greatly helps their applications. Check out the scholarship pages for universities she is considering and look for info that might put her in a better position to win. After looking at a few you will see a general level of achievements they are looking for. She has time to really build a nice r</p>

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<p>Reach high but have a net or two!</p>

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<p>It’s great that your EFC and the amount you can afford are similar. Girls with strong stats are highly sought after at engineering schools, so that’s another plus for you. Being first generation is yet another “plus” when it comes to chances for acceptance. I have a female relative at Stanford and doing fine that had really good stats from a not so great school district. I would add RPI to the list provided above, and CaseWestern gives a lot of merit money, but I’m not “recommending” them as highly as some of the others. As long as her SAT or ACT scores are strong, I think she will do well. Cast a wide net, and do find some safeties she would really like. Good luck.</p>

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<p>This is why I knew this was the place to ask. You are all so great! Thank you so much for all the great information. I know what I’ll be doing all night :)</p>

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<p>She, and a lot of family & friends are all convinced she’s headed for Ivy schools or WashU or UChicago.</p>

<p>This is very common with an “A” student. Everyone around him/her will declare…you need to go to Harvard because you’re a genius. </p>

<p>Just calmly explain that the top schools get too many apps to seat all the A students that apply. And, an ACT 31-33 isn’t strongly competitve for top schools. A 31 is actually low for those schools. Insist on some matches and affordable safeties. After that, time will tell.</p>

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<p>Also, consider Tufts and U.Rochester. WPI, RPI and Case are all good solid matches and are likely to offer merit aid.</p>

13

<p>I go to an Ivy as a grad student and I work with undergrads. While the personal attention doesn’t really compare to the LAC I went to as an undergrad myself, it is still very good here. The students get assigned an advising dean that helps them navigate the academic environment; there is good career counseling; and we have a great student affairs structure at my Ivy. I get the sense that many of the more medium-sized Ivies are like that with their undergraduates. Graduation rates here are very high, and it’s only partially because they already get such well-prepared students.</p>

<p>Also, Smith College is a small women’s college with an engineering program, and they generally have good financial aid. So your daughter may want to consider that.</p>

14

<p>Barnard might be a good one to look at - it’s in NYC (so less “culture shock” than a rural school), it’s all female but right across the street from Columbia where they share everything except dorms. It’s also a bit easier to get into than Columbia.</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd might be a good choice also because they are interested in promoting engineering for women and might take a more holistic approach.</p>

<p>Just remember, there’s more to college than classes and make sure your daughter knows the “personality” of the different schools - size, location, structure, etc. That can make all the difference for her.</p>

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<p>Barnard is in many ways a great choice of LAC, where the common limitations on breadth and depth of upper level courses at LACs are not an issue due to convenient cross-registration access to Columbia. However, engineering is only available as a 3+2 program with Columbia: [Combined</a> Columbia University Programs | Barnard College](<a href=“http://barnard.edu/dos/academic-advising/combined-columbia-programs]Combined”>http://barnard.edu/dos/academic-advising/combined-columbia-programs)</p>

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<p>As expected I was up until the wee hours last night plugging away at the computer. Several of the suggested schools are on the radar already…Case Western and Rose Hulman are a couple. But I found several others from your suggestions that will likely be possibles. I really appreciate all your help!</p>

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<p>Do you mean scholarships that juniors apply for that go towards wherever that junior goes to college 2 years later?</p>

<p>Soccermom, join us in the class of 2015 thread if you like. It’s very active and we are going through the same process together :)</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/class-20xx-community/1086324-parents-hs-class-2015-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/class-20xx-community/1086324-parents-hs-class-2015-a.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Since she is a varsity athlete, I would encourage you to look into athletic recruitment at the top tier schools she is interested in. Athletics at Ivies and top LACs won’t come with the kind of scholarships mainstream NCAA Division I sports can offer, but it can mean both a boost to the likelihood of admissions and an enjoyable complement to the academic experience.</p>

<p>Given her interest in engineering, I’d look at Cornell as a great reach school. Also, I second Columbia’s 3/2 engineering program. </p>

<p>There’s also the option of doing the 3/2 not only at Barnard/Columbia or Columbia/Columbia, but starting with 3 years at a variety of liberal arts colleges. [College</a> Lists / 3-2 Engineering (Columbia)](<a href="College Lists Wiki / College Lists Wiki News and Information)</p>

<p>This is a great hidden gem of a program since it gives 3 years of small-LAC experience and 2 of the big-city Ivy university experience. Hooray for the buffet!</p>

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<p>OHMomof2 Thank you, I subscribed to that group!</p>

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<p>As a parent of a Freshman at the University of Tampa, in Florida and we are from California, I was very hesitant on letting him go so far to school. Yes, UT is a great private school, he got a wonderful scholarship because they are a private school, and we got a little bit of federal aid. Thus, making it much cheaper than if he had stayed in California. With that said, we visited the schools that he was accepted to on the east coast (after he was accepted) and when we got to UT the match was incredible. I tell everyone that it is like a marriage, when the kids see the schools, they just know. He was dead set on a California school until we got out of state. He hated the schools in New York and then we went to Tampa. He loved everything about the school, both socially and academically. Let her choose, she will know when she sees the schools. It is a feeling that they get of happiness and knowing that it is the right fit. Do not let her go anywhere she has not visited first.</p>