Help with college search

College Search & Selection
1

I’m having some difficulty finding good “match” and “safety” schools for my daughter and you all seem quite knowledgeable about much of this so.

My daughter will be graduating this year and wants to major in Chemistry (ultimately she is interested in pharmaceutical/medical research). She is an IB Diploma candidate and her unweighted GPA is a 3.98 (4.0 if you take out Gym), she scored a 2100 (730V 670M 700W) on her SAT and is ranked 1/300 in her class. She scored high enough on her PSAT to be commended, but not high enough to be in the running for a scholarship. She’s a brilliant girl and actually did better after starting her IB classes (all A+), but her ECs are seriously lacking. She attended Delaware’s Governor’s school for theater the summer before her junior year, was in a play her Freshman year, did three years of accelerated English and math classes (if she had not decided to do the IB program, she would have started taking college level English and math classes last year). Sophomore year she wrote and directed “The Alice Project”, a play loosely based on Alice in Wonderland. She’s joining the Lit Mag this year and also hopes to participate in Mock Trail and some technology association. Outside of school she spends much of her free time drawing… she takes her sketchbook with her everywhere In particular, she sketches and then scans her sketch and colors it on the computer. I have to say that I don’t necessarily care for her style, but do believe she is quite talented. She also enjoys creative writing and has taught herself guitar - she did also participate in school talent shows her freshman and sophomore year, both singing (not her strong suit, I’m afraid) and accompanying other singers on the guitar. She volunteered at the local zoo her freshman year, but hasn’t done alot of community service.

So now our problems (other than the weak ECs and the not-quite-there SAT scores)… we are estranged from her father and do not think he will complete the NCP profile, and know that he will not contribute. We do receive child support… but he has never done so voluntarily, the court tracks him down when he switches jobs and garnishes his wages. He was emotionally and verbally abusive and really messed up my older two children, and am so thankful he stayed away from my youngest. I did have a Protection from Abuse Order when we split up, but that was 13 years ago. We plan to request a waiver from a couple of schools, but I’m mostly trying to find schools that do not require NCP information. Or if anyone has advise about schools that might be more likely to grant a waiver (I was able to get one from St. Johns in NM for my son, but that was in 2009).

I do not make a lot of money (approx $30,000). I think I’m upside down on my house (manufactured housing, actually) and have no other assets. Child support is around $3800 and will end the day she graduates from high school. So we’re also looking for a school that meets 100% need. Most of which are either a reach for her or require NCP info. I’ve been looking at the net price calculators and the results are quite frightening! She should be able to get some merit scholarships… and I’m also not sure how likely schools might be to award additional institutional aid for an academically outstanding student.

And finally, we live in rural Delaware. So University of DE is her only choice for an in-state school and she really is opposed to going there (the Governor’s school was on their campus and she did not like it). So I’m curious what OOS schools might be out there that will fit our financial needs. I should also note that she does not want to go to a small school, and doesn’t want to go too far west or south.

Schools I have identified so far as possible are University of NC, Chapel Hill and University of VA. I think these might be considered match schools? Reach schools are University of Chicago (she will apply early decision to them), University of PA, Cornell (I’m ashamed to admit that I’m an alumni with my pathetic financial circumstance), and maybe Vanderbilt. I am having the devil of a time finding any “safety” schools, primarily because of the financial need issue. She has stated that she will go to Delaware Tech (which I am not entirely opposed to emotionally, since I work there – in Admissions even, and I will be happy to have more time with her, but she will wither and die) before she goes to UD (which I am afraid is what it is going to boil down to).

Sorry, for the length… I do tend to run on. I appreciate any thoughts/suggestions.

2

FAFSA schools don’t require the NCP info. Here is a listing of CSS Profile schools and whether or not they require NCP info: https://profileonline.collegeboard.org/prf/PXRemotePartInstitutionServlet/PXRemotePartInstitutionServlet.srv

Good calls on UVA, UNC and Vandy (no NCP) but Chicago, Penn and Cornell require the info.

Frankly since most schools that meet need use the Profile you need to look at some merit aid options. Here are some automatic merit aid options that might work: http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/

3

Can she get that math score any higher? It would improve her admission chances.

4

It’s a shame that she does not want a small school. There are a number that give significant amounts of merit aid to students with stats similar to those of your daughter. Would she consider looking at schools such as Earlham, Wooster, Denison, St. Lawrence, Centre and Beloit? Or is the small size a deal-breaker?

It’s possible that she could get enough merit aid at some LACs to make up the balance in federal loans and a small contribution from you.

5

At UNC she’d likely qualify for the Carolina Covenant, which is usually a full ride (or extremely close to it) with no loans. The downside is that all of the UNC schools are very competitive for out-of-state freshman applicants.

http://carolinacovenant.unc.edu/about-the-covenant/

Glancing over the list Erin’s Dad posted, there’s some great options that don’t require the noncustodial parent form – Bucknell, Case Western, and RPI are possibly particularly good fits for chemistry, but Elon and Ithaca might be worth a look too. If she’s open to small schools, the list has Furman, Oberlin, Ohio Wesleyan, Susquehanna, Trinity (TX), Wooster, etc…though a full ride is far from guaranteed.

Definitely check out Questbridge, which has a deadline of September 28. They take the noncustodial parent into consideration but note that “The only exception is when the student has not had contact with the non-custodial parent for an extended period of time” – which may make it a possibility for you.

http://www.questbridge.org/for-students/ncm-how-to-apply

Some schools give IB scholarships, so look into those as well. WPI guarantees at least $20,000 per year for an IB graduate who scores 40+ on the IB exams (not very easy, admittedly). Here’s a list I found through Google, so I don’t know how accurate it is:

http://www.minnetonka.k12.mn.us/academics/ib/Documents/IB_Scholarships.pdf

I recommend submitting an art supplement with her application.

6

Thank you for the information. I will check those links.

School size is not necessarily a deal breaker, it’s more about the students at the school. She gets frustrated now because she feels she is being held back from learning by her classmates, who often require material to be repeated over and over. She’s also a bit odd… She came home from the first day of school wearing a mouse like a necktie, a plastic fork in her hair, and a plastic knife hanging from her necklace. So the thought is that at a large (selective) school there will be more odd ducks like her.

She is in the process of applying for Questbridge.

UChicago does not require NCP info. I’ve actually checked this multiple times because it surprises me that they do not. It’s at the bottom of this page: https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/costs/apply-for-aid. I’ve already contacted U of PA and Cornell about the waivers. I think she might have a chance at Cornell since they have a higher admission rate and I have read that they are somewhat more likely to admit alumni’s children. And it is possible they will waive the NCP info. It doesn’t hurt to try, I guess.

She is considering whether or not to take the SAT again… she wasn’t going to, but then she decided she would really like to go to UChicago and started thinking about it. I’m not sure if she’ll be able to do much better, her math scores have been fairly consistent across two PSATs and the SAT. However, she did not prep at all for any of those tests, I guess that could make a difference.

Thank you again for the help. I’m really stressing about the NCP thing and am so annoyed that it’s severely limiting her choices. That man has caused my family so much pain…

7

Here’s a link with some merit scholarship info:

https://scholarships360.org/resources/great-schools-great-scholarships/

Two state schools that provide excellent merit-based scholarships are the U of Alabama and the U of Oklahoma. Both would be academic and (likely) financial safeties for your daughter.

Do give Cornell a shot as another reach/low reach option.

For matches, there are UNC and UVA OOS – those might be high matches, as OOS admission is competitive at both.

And I second MidwestDad in post 3: look at small schools that offer strong merit aid. There will be a number of matches among them. In sum, you have at least these ideas so far:

Reach/Low Reach (if she could get her SAT up to 2200 for these, chances would improve):
U Chicago
Cornell
Vanderbilt

High Match/Match:
Virginia
North Carolina
Beloit
Denison
Earlham
Wooster
Centre
St. Lawrence

Safety:
Alabama
Oklahoma

8

There is no point in repeatedly taking the SAT if she doesn’t study for it. And I know plenty of kind of quirky kids at small LACs.

I am sure you know, but UChicago is EA, not ED. So non-binding. I think their decision to not require the NCP is recent (maybe just last year).

9

Oh, she’ll study for it this time!

And I must admit I’m not entirely sure what being a LAC implies. I was thinking she wants to do science so they wouldn’t be appropriate…

It’s so hard to judge the actual caliber of a school, ultimately that is what is most important to her, the quality of the education she will receive.

10

LAC = Liberal Arts College

Common attributes:

  • Limited (or no…) grad/PhD programs – so a total or near-total focus on undergrads
  • Small class sizes, even for many survey courses (…that would have 100+ students at a university)
  • Limited course and major offerings compared to universities
  • Easier access to professors than at most universities
  • Limited research budgets – fewer research opportunities for students overall, but also less competition for those spots due to the lack of grad students.
  • Less national and international prestige than universities (ranked similarly, anyway: like vs. like)
11

OP, good on you for checking the web sites directly. U Chicago is one example where the accumulated information on CB is not accurate.

12

If possible, it is really important for her to visit a range of school types this fall. For example, if you are in DE she might consider visiting Ursinus, Temple and Villanova just to see their differences and similarities. Try to arrange for her to sit in on a science class wherever she visits.

Many LACs have top-notch science programs, with students who end up going into industry, research, or on for MDs or PhDs.

13

I have heard that Cornell wants alumni kids to apply early decision, otherwise they are waitlisted.

If your daughter is open to a LAC, I think she would feel at home and qualify for merit aid at Beloit. Its a very accepting school full of all kinds of kids

14

She sounds like a Carleton kid, probably also Reed (Hendrix and Beloit for safety). :slight_smile: All better than Delaware Tech for a quirky, super driven kid.
Reed is in Portland, Carleton is 45mn from Minneapolis-St Paul and in a nice college town, Hendrix and Beloit are more isolated but they’re perfet safeties for quirky kids, with a high level of academics but less selectivity due to location.
She sounds more like a W&M kid than UVA (UVA is pretty conformist…)

If you had a protective order and can produce it to the colleges, they may not require him to contribute. Email EACH college your problem and state each of these elements: you(mother) are very low income, father estranged, protective order issued at time of split, his wages garnished to comply to child support but this will stop when kid turns 18. Does the college require NCP information (ie., can you apply, because that information will not be forthcoming).

Does DelawareTech offer TE?

UChicago doesn’t require NCP information (2014 policy, confirmed this year).

15

LACs typically offer biology, chemistry, and physics as majors, along with math, and many have computer science, environmental sciences, and geology. I am sure there are more, those are just the ones that come to mind off the top of my head. A kid can prepare very well for grad school or med school in the sciences at many LACs. If you tell us what branch(s) of science she is interested in and possible future plans, that would help with recommendations.

And there are some misconceptions in the list in post #9 (written by a poster with a big university bias, I am sure – I have neither, as I attended a top notch research university myself, but both my kids attended LACs):

While this is true, a student only has so many course slots in their schedule anyway. They could not possibly take all the courses offered at a large university anyway, and most LACs offer plenty of offerings to give students the coursework they need and a fair number of elective choices. And pick an LAC in a consortium (Claremont 5Cs or the one in Mass. with Amherst/etc), and that expands the course offerings further. Unless your kid is already super advanced in a subject, this will not be a problem. Of course at ANY college, your kid should be looking over the course offerings in their possible majors to see what is offered.

Again – what good does a bigger budget do for a single student? And there are LACs with significant research budgets (Swarthmore comes to mind). Most LAC profs still are engaged in research, are getting some kind of grants or funding for that work, and they have to rely on their undergrad students exclusively. They have an incentive to train those students up to speed quickly and give them responsibility. My D2 has researched on campus every summer since freshman year, and is getting research credit with 2 different profs in different departments this year (junior year). I agree that sometimes universities have facilities that an LAC may not have access to, and the money can make a difference there. But that is not always the case – Reed has a nuclear reactor on campus!

Trust me, if your kid wants to go to grad school or med school, the name of the top LACs will open doors as well as as university. And your kid will have had more one-on-one attention from profs, and may very well come out with better all around skills. That is really the purpose of college anyway, is to build skills and be prepared to go into the world as someone who can contribute, and also be able to learn and change in the future. LACs do at least as good a job as universities in that area, and possibly better at teaching communications and analysis skills.

16

Thanks for the info on the LACs, we’re starting to look at some of them since money is a big issue and it looks like some of them offer fairly good aid.

After doing her own investigating she has decided she really wants to attend UChicago. To sum it up she says, “these are my PEOPLE!” She’s taking the SAT again in November and is pretty confident she’ll be able to bring her math score up if she actually studies for the test.

She plans to study chemistry and wants to do something with pharmaceuticals and developing new drugs. She plans to continue in school until she has earned her PhD.

I have to say I’m finding this process very frustrating. It seems in order to be able to afford to go to college a student has to be either super-outstanding academically and can get into one of those highly selective schools that meet full need or independently wealthy. Of course, it would also help if we lived in a state that had more than one state university and also if that state didn’t have one of the highest average college debt in the country.

17

If she were not so fortunate as to be admitted to UC, there is a lengthy earlier thread on CC discussing schools that are similar to UC that might be worth checking out…

18

Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Ohio Wesleyan University
Colorado School of Mines
U of Rochester
Illinois Institute of Technology
South Dakota School of Mines & Technology
St. Olaf College
Rice University
St. Lawrence University
College of Wooster
U of Tulsa
U of Maryland-Baltimore County