Help with school list! (what to do when kid has no preferences...)

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

Right now list of possible schools to apply to is too long (maybe 50 or so…).

When I talk to my son I can’t get from him any criteria to use to narrow the list. He is passionate about doing MT and wants to go the BFA route. But when I try to narrow it down by school size, location, weather, city vs. rural, conservatory or not, etc. he simply does not care about any of these factors. He just wants something that would give him a great MT education. (Are there any other criteria people use to try to figure out “fit” in addition to the above that I can try asking him about?)

We haven’t really visited any schools, planning to do that after getting acceptances (which will help us later, but doesn’t help now!). He did summer programs at Penn State, OCU and Webster, and based on those summer experiences he really enjoyed Penn State a lot, both for the interaction with the faculty and the location, but not sure how much we can transfer thoughts from a summer program to the school as a whole.

So with no input from him to narrow the list, I am left with just the various general “top school” lists, etc., with nothing to go on to figure out which is best for him…

If I impose my own opinion of what I know about him, criteria I think make sense to consider (if possible):

  • While he is passionate about musical theater, he sometimes procrastinates. So I think he might benefit from a school that pushes students and ensures they move forward vs. a school that leaves it up to the student to drive themselves. Are there any schools that would move up or down based on this? Are there schools that are known to require kids to be more of a "self starter" than others?
  • He gets good grades, so I think he might fit in better with a school that has higher academic requirements over one with lower requirements. Maybe this is most important when trying to pick the right "middle tier" schools - which of those are more known for stronger academics?
  • He is rather picky with his friends. He gets really turned off by kids who are arrogant, spoiled, showy, entitled, rude, etc. Would get along best with kids who are on the quieter side, respectful, focused on working hard. Any chance that helps to move some schools up or down? Are there any schools that are known for having student body that is, well...nicer? Or the opposite? Absent such knowledge, perhaps better to be in a school where more likely to have connections to wider net of kids than a school where stuck with the same 15 kids in every single class?

Right now I took my own shot at narrowing the list down to 20, listed below - but any suggestions to add or remove?

Most difficult to get into - UMich, CMU, CCM, Penn State, NYU, Elon, Ithica, FSU, BoCo, BW, Syracuse, Pace, Emerson
Middle difficulty - Hartt, Rider, Ball State, Montclair, Ohio Northern, Temple
“Safety” - Muhlenberg

Thanks!

2

Have your son read up on each school extensively and jot down notes about each one. He should list pros and cons of the program (in his view). He should examine the BFA curriculum and put these side by side and see which ones appeal most to him. Putting this down on paper can help clarify which programs are more appealing and fit him and which not so much. He should also balance the list in terms of his academic odds at each school. And yes, balance the list in terms of artistic selectivity (though that is not as easy to classify).

3

We have been trying to “read up on each school extensively” but the unfortunate problem we are having is that we can’t seem to find relevant, specific information. We try looking at the college websites themselves, but with a few exceptions most of them seem to be rather generic in their descriptions of the program (“we train triple-threat performers, leaders in the industry, veteran faculty, will prepare you to enter the industry”), they all sound “fine”, nothing that allows my son to say one is better or worse or pros/cons. Also tried searching through this forum but many posts that are specific to individual programs are dated. Any other places to suggest looking in order to read up?

4

I don’t know what his stats are but don’t see Muhlenberg as a safety… Also have you come up with a budget you can afford to? My daughter was in costume /theater design. Got into Emerson but didn’t get one of their few merits so we couldn’t afford it with kid 2 coming right down the pike. She went elsewhere now transfered and changed majors but still in the theater realm. Pace was interesting . She was excepted but we were not thrilled over all with the school. Think it’s much better now. He needs top scores and stats for nyu and Michigan. Beware… A lot of kids that want BFA transfer out. My daughter was working like a dog but really missed the academics and transferred as a junior. A lot of kids don’t understand the commitment for a BFA… FYI she went to a high school for performing artists, musicians, musical theater, dance etc…

5

I don’t know what his stats are but don’t see Muhlenberg as a safety… Also have you come up with a budget you can afford to? My daughter was in costume /theater design. Got into Emerson but didn’t get one of their few merits so we couldn’t afford it with kid 2 coming right down the pike. She went elsewhere now transfered and changed majors but still in the theater realm. Pace was interesting . She was excepted but we were not thrilled over all with the school. Think it’s much better now. He needs top scores and stats for nyu and Michigan. Beware… A lot of kids that want BFA transfer out. My daughter was working like a dog but really missed the academics and transferred as a junior. A lot of kids don’t understand the commitment for a BFA… FYI she went to a high school for performing artists, musicians, musical theater, dance etc…

6

@junior72
You wrote:

Examine more closely beyond the description of the program. Note things on a spreadsheet such as size of program, size of the school itself, academic profile of admitted students, the specific four year curriculum in the BFA in MT major program (these vary between programs), how much acting training? what style of acting training? private voice? amount and styles of dance? Is dance leveled? master classes? showcase? main stage season (types of shows selected), other performance opportunities, student run productions? new works? grad students in dept.?piano taught? music theory taught? How many professors work professionally in the theater industry, any type of cut policy, performance facilities, what alumni are doing, coursework about “the business,?” what percent of curriculum is in liberal arts? extracurricular groups such as theater troupes, choral groups, dance troupes, a cappella groups? I don’t know what your student prefers but perhaps noting each of these things for each college will point out the differences and also reveal what is most appealing…as well as factors like geographic location, distance from home, size of program, size of college, setting (urban, rural, suburban). After reading, he should list pros and cons. A huge thing is examining the curriculum of each program because it is pretty prescribed in a BFA program unlike in BA schools, and these differ among the programs out there.

Colleges also should be selected that are in your son’s academic range.

Even if you can’t visit all the schools now, perhaps visit a few that are not hard to get to. As well, even visit a few colleges that are not necessarily for MT near you of different sizes and settings and see what kind of college appeals.

If your son knows any kids who attend these programs, or friends of friends, talk to them about their experiences.

7

One thing that helped my daughter narrow down her list was to ask her what criteria were important to her. We visited bigger schools, smaller, schools, rural ones, urban ones, conservatories, etc., and that wasn’t the driving factor. What helped her narrow down the list were factors she chose . So, for example, would your son be willing to say what a great MT education means for him? Is it more acting or music or dance heavy? Is the opportunity to perform from Freshman year important or would he like to focus more on training and classes? What kinds of teachers are important? Does he prefer collaboration with his classmates? How about “his people”? What does he like most? And if he is more academic, is that important to him as he moves forward? Are class sizes a factor? I started this process with my daughter and listed any and every criteria she listed. She also changed her criteria as she dug deeper, but this was a really good starting place.

Anyway, hope this is helpful.

Good luck to you and your son on your journey!

8

We are in the same place, trying to narrow down our list (my daughter is a junior). She’s academically strong, and strong in voice and acting but not as much in dance. She’s looking for northeast (but will also apply to 1-2 Texas state schools).

I’ve had a few conversations with her, trying to get a feel for what type of school will be a “fit”. Here’s what we came up with. Your son’s answers will vary, but you might find these useful areas to look at.

Location (northeast).

Balanced program: singing, acting, dance. (some are more focused in one area).
She wants a school that offers internships
Easy access to a major city
NY senior showcase
Probably doesn’t want to study abroad

Courses to prepare for professional life. Some programs have courses in senior year focused on audition techniques, the business of theatre, etc. Others are just performance focused. She doesn’t want to come out of college with great training to be on stage but completely unprepared for the professional life she is beginning.

Performance opportunities: she doesn’t care if freshmen can’t perform, but I expected that she would

She is strong academically, but does NOT want a very prescriptive core curriculum: interested in academic courses that relate to the field, OR good choices of electives. Ideally, the program will have a good mix of “training” and “education”, which is how I’m thinking of the difference between classes in acting, dance, voice vs. things like musical theatre history, Shakespeare, etc. Some of the academic programs that have caught our interest are Emerson and Point Park.

I’m struggling to determine how selective each school is, but feel like overall I’m coming up with a reasonable list. Mine overlaps yours somewhat (not completely because you’re looking in other parts of the country). Definites to apply so far are:
Hartt, Western Connecticut State, Emerson, Pace, Syracuse, Montclair, Carnegie Melon, Point Park, Texas State.

She visited Pace this summer and absolutely loved it (I was working - my company has an office blocks away - so didn’t attend the tour). We will visit a couple of schools in Texas (maybe TX state, but it’s a 6 hr drive. Probably UT Arlington and Sam Houston State University). Next summer, we’ll go up to Boston to visit my mother, and will plan to visit Emerson, and possibly 1-2 others. Her dad lives in Delaware, and if she visits him for spring break she’s going to ask to visit Montclair. For the rest, we’ll plan to visit after acceptance, or in some cases audition on campus (Hartt has an early notification option that requires auditioning in December. We’re planning to do NY unifieds, but know that we may not be able to get them all in.

So many others still being discussed, and her plan is to apply to about 15, so we have more to nail down. Not bad for September of junior year, though! There will be at least one non-audition program on the list… possibly Northeastern in Boston (potential for double major - BS in American Sign Language and Theatre, and there is a musical theatre minor). Muhlenberg is likely her safety school too… it’s non-audition, test-optional, and has almost a 50% acceptance rate. She has a 3.65 unweighted and a 4.05 weighted GPA, so it’s not really the academic acceptance we’re most worried about (except CMU), especially for those that are test optional.

Longer than I planned, but hopefully the hours I’ve spent looking at all of this will help someone else! I’ve been asked to help with the research (my strong point), but the decision will be hers. For now, she’s drowning in homework and trying to make time to work on her audition book!

9

^^I can’t say your D’s chances at Northeastern without way more information, but please be aware that the university has a 29% acceptance rate and typically would only fall into “safety” range for a very strong academic student (not saying whether yours is or not because you only provided her GPA for the first two years of high school, and we don’t know the rigor of her course load in the context of her high school, her test scores, and all the other important considerations). Just pointing out that it’s a school that is not truly a safety for many students, but could be close to it for a tippy top student. Still, a 29% admit rate school is hard to think of as a sure bet for most students.

10

A college audition coach can help tremendously with narrowing the list, and coming up with a balanced list of schools. The advice of our D’s coach on this topic was invaluable. There are many solid programs at schools that the average person would just not know about – like Texas State, Wright State, Otterbein, and Elon. So my advice is to hire a coach. Our D’s coach was worth every penny spent on her services.

11

You always hear about great programs, but it’s hard to know what feels the best for your student without actually being on campus! What I had my daughter do was sit down one afternoon with a list of approx 25 the schools that I felt might be a good fit for her based on what I’d read here, heard from friends, seen online, etc. I didn’t want this to be MY choice, and I wanted her to put in some of the work as well. What she did was go on YouTube and watched some of their performances and/or showcases. It gave her a glimpse into their program and if she “felt” them. It really helped - especially with some of the previous unknowns like Otterbein and Ball State, who are now on her list.

12

@lmkiker Have your daughter check out Molloy/CAP21. Our son just started there as a freshman, and I think the school ticks all the boxes on her criteria.

13

@junior92, I would gently suggest that you rethink the colleges you are considering “less difficult”…they may be less difficult that your “hardest” category, but all of them are way long shots. I would definitely add in some “never heard of them” schools (regional state universities around you if they have programs, less known private schools, etc.). Then see how the auditions/offers go.

My daughter was not really engaged with selecting schools, either. Honestly, she thought all of them would be “fine,” and she was probably right. I pretty much composed the list and asked her to knock it down to 13, which she did. :slight_smile:

After visiting several of them for auditions she got a better idea of where she would feel comfortable (small supportive program in big, diverse university; didn’t “feel like high school;” didn’t have a rich kid/elite vibe.) Those choices would be very personal for each student! Luckily she got an offer from the school she felt most comfortable at.

14

@junior72 I have been through the college audition process for two BFA Acting kids already and now my third is going the MT auditioning route this year. My youngest is indecisive like your son. Someone here at CC suggested that we print all the curricula of the possible schools, delete the schools’ names, and talk about them. This was the best thing we could’ve done. All of the curricula are available for at least 12 of the schools on your list (because they were on our son’s too). The first few, he had no idea what he was looking for. But then, it was like a light went on. He’d realize that he liked a dance, or stage combat, or acting style sequence that certain schools offered and others didn’t. We were able to get him from 25 down to 15 in one weekend. And the beauty of it was that he wasn’t dazzled by the big name of the school. He really figured out what appeals to him as far as style and intensity of training. At least for today…

15

Adding this for your lists: Make sure that you can realistically afford the schools on your lists. Go ahead and do the FAFSA as soon as possible - it will give your Expected Family Contribution (EFC). I’ve had 2 go through this process MT D1 worked with a coach, knew what she wanted & they made her list. The coach included an important factor - what we could afford (and at the time our S was also in college, which made a difference). Acting D2 didn’t want to use a coach, so we made a list ticking her boxes (which will be different for every kid!). What we failed to do was carefully check full costs (some websites show tuition but room & board, etc. are separate - do the cost calculators!). She is smart & had good grades/scores. She didn’t audition at NYU or CM because we knew they were “expensive” and not known for giving a lot of scholarship money. She ultimately had to turn down a couple of top programs (and decline a couple of WLs - often the money is gone by the time kids come off WLs) because our EFC was WAY more than we could actually afford. When you get acceptances, you get a list of financial awards but that includes parent loans. Since our EFC was so high, our parent loans over 4 years would have been crippling (husband is close to retirement). With D1 we were able to negotiate more money at her school (this does work sometimes!) but for D2, even after negotiating, she didn’t get enough to help overall. Don’t make the mistake we did - make sure the schools on your lists work with your finances!

16

alright @lovetoact. Welcome to the third time around :slight_smile:

17

@catznpigz , you noted that after visiting several of them for auditions your daughter got a better idea of where she would feel comfortable (small supportive program in big, diverse university; didn’t “feel like high school;” didn’t have a rich kid/elite vibe.) While I agree those choices would be very personal for each student, I get a sense from your response that your daughter and my son might have similar thoughts. Any chance you can let me know which schools your daughter kept on the list vs. removed from the list? (I would PM but not sure how to do that here, or maybe I can’t because I don’t have enough posts yet…)

Thanks!

18

@junior72 , Sending (long) pm, if I can!

19

As has been suggested previously by @lovetoact and others, i printed out curriculums (minus the school names) from my Ds extensive list and had her go through them without being influenced by the school’s name. It was really helpful for her to read about class offerings and rank the schools that included classes that she was truly interested in. Some schools that she thought were near the top of her list dropped down (or even off!) her list and others that she was less convinced about moved up. Best of luck to!