Help with Senior Course Selections

Applying to College
1

D is a HS Junior, a strong student with strong SATs and strong extracurriculars. She doesn’t yet know what she wants to study in college, but is leaning toward the humanities, something related to social justice. We could use some advice on senior course selections.

Her current (Junior) courses are:

AP English Literature
AP French
AP Calc AB
AP US History
Honors Chemistry
Music
Art Independent Study

Her planned (Senior) courses are:

Senior English (most challenging English course at school)
AP Political Science
AP Economics
Music
Advanced Writing or Independent Study on writing topic (tbd)

She has up to 2 more slots available:
Math – AP Stats or AP Calculus BC?
Science – AP Physics or Honors Physics?

SCIENCE – She doesn’t want to give the impression in her college apps that she’s not strong in science. She took AP Bio as a sophomore and got a B (her lowest grade ever), but she scored an 800 on the SAT subject test and a 4 on the AP. She took Honors Chemistry as a Junior instead of AP Chem, simply because she was already pushing the system by taking 4 AP classes (the school officially permits only 3). She’s concerned that she might give the impression that she’s uncomfortable with science if she chooses Honor Physics instead of AP Physics. (On the other hand, if she was weak on science should could choose one of the easier science topics, but she’s not.) She likes science and is not ready to rule out a career in medicine or the sciences, but it does not appear to be her most likely path. AP Physics is very time-consuming and D wants to have time to fully devote herself to the rest of her interesting and challenging curriculum; plus she is likely to be a lead in the school musical and she has numerous leadership positions in various extracurricular activities.

MATH – She doesn’t want to be seen to be choosing a “fluff” option (AP Stats), but statistics would likely be very relevant to a possible career involving social sciences. It could be relevant to economics or history or political science and her interest generally in social justice and advocacy. On the other had, she “kinda likes” her AB Calc class. She works hard at it, but enjoys the challenge of it and relishes the joy of solving a complex problem. She could take BC Calc and has confidence that she could do well, albeit with more effort than Statistics will likely require.

My personal leanings (not firm) are (i) I’d recommend the Statistics class because I think it’s most relevant to the direction I think she’s likely to head in, and (ii) I’d lean toward AP Physics, because (a) I think she can handle it, (b) her father’s an engineer and he could help her with it, and (c ) a college admissions counselor might interpret a choice of honors physics as a failure to take the most challenging course load available to her. That said, I’d like her to remain sane, and I think the rest of her course load will be very intense. I could probably talk myself into supporting “only” honors physics because the rest of her “resume” tells a compelling story for social justice / advocacy, which does not require physics. True, she’d be going from 4 AP courses as a junior to 3 AP courses as a senior, but that English class is known to be at least as challenging as AP English, and her extra writing class will be much more intense than last year’s independent study in art. We’ll get the inputs from her college guidance department, but I suspect they’ll describe her courseload as “most challenging” regardless of her choice between these two math and science options. (And if we’re wrong on that point, that will likely be the deciding factor.) Hmmm … I think I’ve just talked myself into preferring the Honors Physics option.

Assuming the guidance counselors describe her curriculum as “most challenging” in either case, does anyone have views on what an admissions representative at a top 10-20 college or university might think or want to see? Your recommendations? Would admissions counselors prefer to see her push herself to the max, because she can? Or do they value her ability to know her priorities and make choices that preserve balance and sanity and enable her to put more energy and focus on the areas where she’s most passionately interested?

Or ©, just encourage her to take the courses she wants because they speak to her and excite her, regardless of what colleges might want; find a balancing point that lets her feel challenged and energized and fulfilled, regardless of what the colleges might want. If the resulting choices eliminate her from consideration at some top schools, then so be it – they may not have been the right fit anyway. She is such a stellar student that there will undoubtedly be some top schools that WILL want her for exactly who she is.

I think I’ve talked myself into an answer. Still would love other views – especially insights on what the Ivies would think. Thanks!

2

I’d advise that she take at least as many AP classes her Sr year as she is taking this year.
So I recommend the AP Physics, instead of honors Physics.
Since she "kinda likes her Calc class she should take BC instead of Stats.
And the Calc BC will be more helpful in getting her placed into more advanced math classes in college, by giving her credit, should she need math for what ever major she may decide on, and thus avoid having to start at a lower level math class in college.

I would ALSO advise she give her self a free period, instead of the Independant study or advanced writing class- the whole process of applying to colleges is like having a mandatory part time job, in addition to all her school work, during her first semester. She will find that having a free period will help keep her sane.
She can use the free period for writing college essays, doing homework, practicing for her roles in the school musicals, catching up on sleep or just to give her self a breather.
Her schedule will be plenty rigorous, even with the free period.

3

I would not do AP Physics. I don’t think her reasons for doing it are good enough. And I don’t think it helps her that much down the road. But it WILL be a big drain on precious time needed for so many things senior year.

If she were aiming for engineering I’d think differently.

4

Help me understand the concern with social justiice paired with the need to attend an elite school.

5

@snarlatron , (a) your question is off-point to this thread, and (b) I never said she had a need to attend an elite school. Feel free to PM me if you sincerely want to discuss that topic.

6

Not trying to be nasty; just trying to figure out what you are really asking. My couple of friends who have actually had long and fulfilling careers in social-justice related work (social work and community service) went to run-of-the-mill colleges and no “top 10-20” or “Ivy” (as in your original post) credentials were needed for such work. I would advise someone whose values really revolve around social justice to ditch the APs and use the extra time to do work in the community. I just wonder if there is a disconnect here with your daughter’s stated values and the competitiveness/need for a big name. You have posted in a public forum and may get responses you don’t like, that’s just the way forums go. Best wishes.

7

@snarlatron , I didn’t really want to divert this thread to an off-topic discussion, which is why I invited you to a PM discussion. However, since I’m not getting much feedback on this thread anyway, I’ll go ahead and engage with you publicly.

I believe you when you say that you were not intending to be nasty, and that you mean well.

First, I did not say that my D needs a “top 10-20” or an “Ivy.” She intends to appy to a range of schools. However, with her credentials, I do not think she will have difficulty in getting accepted into lesser name schools or “run-of-the-mill colleges” (to use your term), regardless of which of these AP choices she ends up making for her senior year.

I was really asking what I really asked. The question was regarding what a top tier college admissions officer would be looking for. I wasn’t asking for opinions on what type of school would be a good fit.

It is my D’s belief – and mine as well – that social justice is a noble concern, as well as a complex and varied field. Just as in many fields, there are numerous ways to contribute one’s talents. True, one does not even need a college degree in order to support social justice. Similarly, one does not need a college degree in order to work in the medical field. But if someone is bright and hard-working and talented and has the means to attend and succeed in a pre-med program at a top college, would you suggest that she ought to consider not doing that because she could work as a nurse’s aid without going to college? We believe that my D might be most effective at supporting social justice if she can be trained to develop exceptional communication skills, top notch critical thinking skills, highest caliber research and analysis skills, and a solid understanding of relevant aspects of history, psychology, sociology, economics, medicine and/or the law. We do not believe that a top caliber education should be reserved for those who set their primary goal at making money.

Furthermore, from a financial perspective, some of the top schools actually have lower tuition costs than some mid-level schools, and some of them have much more generous financial aid packages such that the net price is less than other options. For example, my nephew just received an acceptance from a top 20 school, and the need-based financial aid was such that the net price was lower than his offer at the in-state public university.

Does that explanation help?

8

That’s all that really matters. People tend to have a warped idea of how in-depth AO’s are going to view the schedule. While your daughter will spend hours and hours on her apps, the AO will spend 12-15 minutes at most reading the application. If the AO sees the “most challenging” check, s/he’ll move on to the next section.

Now for my opinions. If her prospective college major does not require Calc 2 or beyond, AP Stats is perfectly acceptable.

As for science, which AP Physics are we talking about? I am assuming AP Physics 1 since she has no prior knowledge of physics, but then, it does not appear that her HS requires an intro course before taking the AP version. If it’s AP Physics C, I would definitely not suggest that a non-uber-STEM kid attempt this without an intro course. If it’s AP Physics 1, she still does not need it; honors physics is fine.

No big deal. Once one hits 6-8 AP courses over the course of one’s HS career, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. In other words, each additional AP class will not add anything substantially more to the application. Additionally, the amount of work that will go into college apps is a course equivalent in itself; students (and parents) always underestimate this.

9

Belated thanks to @menloparkmom , @Trisherella and @skieurope . Your advice was really helpful. My D ended up deciding to take AP Econ, AP Gov’t/Poli Sci, AP Calc BC, Honors Physics, Senior English, and Music. The head of college guidance said that courseload is absolutely “most challenging.” My D also signed up for a creative non-fiction class that she was very excited about, but thankfully I was able to persuade her to drop that and take a summer course on the topic instead. She’s happy with these choices, I’m happy with the choices (based on your advice), and her school advisor is happy with the choices. All good! :slight_smile: