Help with what kinds of conservatories/programs I should be looking at

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Maybe a little different perspective here. You do not need to go to Julliard to get a good musical education. I am not discouraging you from setting your goals high, but don’t be disappointed if you wind up somewhere that is not on everyone’s fancy list. My daughter wound up at a school that is probably on noones list. But the advantages she found were that the faculty are musicians first and educators second. Many of them are studio musicians or tour regularly. And her best bonus is that her private instructor is easily one of the top five trumpet players in the world.</p>

<p>So do a lot of research, but don’t get hung up on the “names”. Every professional musician I have ever talked to says that noone ever asks them where they went to school, as long as they can play.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

22

<p>Big Al makes a valid point, that you may want to be careful about being worried about not getting into the right program, that if you don’t go to Juilliard or NEC or CIM you are somehow doomed, etc. Keep in mind it also depends on what you are going to be doing down the road as well, and your own personal drive and ambition as well. I worry about that as well, and ‘making it’ is such a complex process that there are no ironcal rules.</p>

<p>Yes, known ‘high level’ programs do have some advantages.Programs like Curtis and Juilliard et al generally attract and admit students already near the top of the game for the most part, at least technically, and that is a natural incentive for people who go there to be pushed to run at a higher level (kind of like running a marathon with the incredible runners who come out of Kenya as an analogy). They also offer advantages in contacts, people who teach in such places generally know a lot of people at the highest levels of music, have hooks into things that can help someone (for example, when Delay was at Juilliard, if she mentioned one of her students was a standout to managers or to maybe an orchestra looking to book a young soloist, it would be a leg up). In some circumstances having those places on your resume might help get you a leg in the door, but from there talent is what does it and whatever auditioners are looking for, etc.</p>

<p>Put it this way, I know of a violist who got their undergrad and grad degrees in performance from Indiana, and today they are basically a nobody (though from their ego you would think they were Michael Tree or Heidi Castleman; and if this seems a harsh judgement, this person deserves it, one of the most unpleasant people I have ever run into) and there are lot more who went to ‘top programs’ and went nowhere, and there are people who went to ‘lesser programs’ and have done well. </p>

<p>Yes,it is true that the ‘better programs’ have a lot of alumni in high level orchestras, chamber music, etc,but that reflects I suspect the fact that they are more competititive and draw a lot of very talented students, it is like why Notre Dame turns out a lot of NFL players over pee wee state, it is because Notre Dame can draw a lot of very talented players…butt kids from pee wee state make it and flourish as well:). And sometimes, a program with a great teacher on X might be better I suspect then being lost in the wash of another school. A friend, who studied at Juilliard under Galamian and De Lay, said that in that particular famed salon if you weren’t one of the superstars, you ended up with assistants and often getting a lesson at 1am or having to drive to Delays house on a Sunday night, and you were pretty much just one of the pack, and others have said it might be better to find a high level teacher in a more modest program and get the attention. </p>

<p>It is like the normal colleges (i.e non music), where there is this big push that going to an ivy league school is going to make or break you. Other then in some professions (investment banking comes to mind, that still live in the 19th century), going to an ivy school might get someone a foot in the door at the beginning of things, but assuming that two students, one from an ivy league school and one from not, show equal talents,down the line what is going to matter is how the person performs, and having an ivy league education in most fields is not going to count for much, if anything, other then in certain instances, it is what you do that matters.</p>

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<p>The Op’s own suggestions to work and practice hard are probably the best. Scheduling auditions at schools that are completly unrealistic is an enormous waste of time and money. Just like any other college, you should schedule a few auditions at reaches(not Curtis or Juilliard) some safeties (local state schools) and smaller conservatories. Oberlin and Northwestern may be unrealistic because of academics.Always remember, if you find a good teacher and work hard you can always go to grad school.Get an accurate assesment of your playing from auditioning for All-State(not always the best assesment) or other judged competitions.</p>

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<p>Strings are a different arena that other instruments or voice in terms of what the educational environment needs to be. Technical training, practice time, awareness of standards, and high level peers are all crucial to training a string player for a professional life. A good string player will get lots of experience in the provinces, and he/she may be well taught, but unless the other players are very strong and the standards are very high, the bar will be too low for ultimate success. </p>

<p>If a string player is not competitive enough to gain entrance at a top level conservatory, chances are they will not ever be good enough to be a professional string player. It will probably take too long and be too late. IMHO</p>

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<p>Speaking of “safety schools” and wide range of auditions, my husband, son and I just had that discussion tonight at dinner. My son is a senior applying to be a composition major. His definate list includes CIM, NEC, BC, Bienen at NWU. He is considering Manhatten, IU, U Mich, Eastman. With composition it is rough to know what your chances are, I know these schools are very competitive. He has spoken to profs. at CIM BC, Longe, and they seemed encouraging of his early talent. He went to NHSMI this past summer and his composition was chosen out of 8 to be played at the finale concert. But I think it would be wise to consider a safety school. Should we look at Cinncinatti Conservatory? He is less inclined to consider isolated schools in the country vs. city locations and thinks small is nice. He loved Boston. Any suggestions?</p>

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<p>There are many many composition safeties for a student who already has a resume. You will find if you look that there are interesting composition departments all over the place. Because a composer is often very happy to have a steady income and a venue to hear his/her music played - they are scattered among almost every college out there. You would probably find that a safety school that your son was interested in for other reasons - academically or financially - actually has a composition department where he could thrive. My son chose Univ. of Montana as his safety - with a very enthusiastic composition faculty encouraging him to apply. (95% acceptance rate and lots of merit money for good students.) Univ. of Colorado at Boulder was also really intriguing. Also some departments are much bigger than others. Some departments will accept as many as 15 applicants (or probably more if you’re UMKC) - hoping for an end result of 8 or fewer. Others will only accept one, and not worry if that one does not matriculate. </p>

<p>There are many factors for your son to consider - how big or small a department is he looking for? Does he care, or even be excited by, that there are 80 students in the dept such as at UMKC, or only a couple as at Curtis? What kind of opportunities to hear his music played are there - and what does he feel is essential? And, of course, how does he feel about the faculty with whom he would be working.</p>

<p>Another safety for a composer is a BA in composition from a really good department although those schools might not be (and often are definitely not) safeties academically - such as Cornell, Williams and Swarthmore. But there are lots of composition departments at state schools. What are your state schools? Chances are you could find a safety there.</p>

<p>In the end, with encouragement from this board, my son applied to four schools, plus one safety. And even then it was very difficult to make a choice in the end - since he liked all his choices. Don’t feel pressured to apply to too many. It’s a lot of work and travel!</p>

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<p>88fingers - I see on another thread that you’re from Chicago. Not sure what it’s like now but Univ. of Illinois at Urbana Champaign (did I get that right?) used to have Ben Johnston on the faculty and was an amazing place to study. He’s long retired now, but it still might be an interesting department.</p>

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<p>Cinncinatti Conservatory is a safety school? I have a great deal to learn. 88 your son must be an amazing composer, congrats.</p>

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<p>I’d have him look at Cinncinatti, but by no means should it be considered a “safety” school. I think we may be mis-reading 88fingers’ post!</p>

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<p>Thanks all for your good advice, especially Spirit Mom who has answered me on two threads. I am very new to this and can see it getting addictive. We do live outside of Chicago, and have not yet looked at U of I in Champaign, though my older son graduated from that school with Computer Science. Initially we thought it could be a safety school, then we stopped considering when we tried to focus on schools known for good music programs. We hadn’t heard it was exceptional. Finding schools that are have good composition faculty, but not necessarily a well known music school for a safety seems out of reach in terms of research for us. How would you go about that… I actually don’t know what his chances to get into a program are, since he has really only been composing for about a year. I don’t know anything about Cincinatti Conservatory and was just asking if anyone knew about it, not necessarily for a safety school. I realize we are behind the 8 ball in terms of preparation, even though we started looking last fall at schools, there are so many out there, it is hard to make cuts and figure out where is the best place to apply. He is a good musician on piano and horn ( in 1st and 3rd chairs at Chicago Youth Symphony orchestra this fall on horn) and has been soloist for 1st movement of Grieg’s Piano Concerto his sophmore year and attempting 2nd and third movements for this years Concerto Aria at his HS. Would that help with his composition admission? I doubt it…</p>

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<p>88fingers, the master list threads <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/618208-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2009-a-59.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/618208-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2009-a-59.html&lt;/a&gt; are good places to start to look for info beyond the “pinned” threads at the top of the page. There are at least three years of master lists, and a cursory scanning (use the last post) will reveal poster, accepted schools, degree concentration, and a school of matriculation.</p>

<p>Looking for posts/threads from former comp applicants might point you to some interesting insights and options. Beyond SpiritManager, look for posts by stringkeymom, Hunt, compmom and compclub. Some older posts by WindCloudUltra and MahlerSnob may also contain some tidbits.</p>

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<p>You’re forgetting Lynn Harrell, Alisa Weilerstein, and Truls Mork, people.</p>

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<p>Alisa Weilerstein is now an Artist-in-Residence at CIM, where she had been a member of their Young Artists Program. I am really hoping to get a chance to hear her in person this year.</p>

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<p>I am not sure about Truls Mork, but the other 2 teach in addition to performing. My main statement still stands. There are only a few cellists who earn their living exclusively through performing. Even the best ones teach as well.</p>

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<p>Viola Dad, How do you search for a thread from a particular person as you refered to in this last post about composition?</p>

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<p>Click on the poster’s name (in the left margin) of a post the poster has written.</p>

<p>A drop down menu appears. Click “find more posts”</p>

<p>Edit:
Another way is click the search this forum button towards the right top of the page.</p>

<p>A box will open.</p>

<p>Click advanced. This is the search function. Just follow the search instructions that open.</p>

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<p>I agree with the other folks who said your first batch of schools are just as hard to get into as the others. I think Northwestern University’s Bienen School of Music is a big stretch since you must have excellent academics as well as talent. And for all the schools, competition is fierce for cello.</p>