<p>profase, You are an excellent student. Again, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to convince your parents-- but be prepared for a no. And, if the answer is no, I want you to understand that UFL is really an excellent school. No, it’s not MIT-- but it’s not Western Any State College either. Why should you use post-graduation data to convince your parents? Because, to some degree, college tuition is a business decision. The difference in $ is HUGE and you will probably get a lot further with your parents if you recognize that and give them reasons why <em>economically</em> it’s a better decision. Of course, we don’t know your parents so maybe, “but I really hate Florida” is a good reason to them. (Since they live in FL, I suspect it’s not.) But, in case your parents are like most parents, I would suggest some of the tactics mentioned here.</p>
<p>You are without a doubt a good student so use that brain and put together a compelling discussion with your parents.</p>
<p>Did you apply to any schools that would give you assured merit for your stats? </p>
<p>Before you go any further with ideas and possibilities…you need to deal with facts.</p>
<p>You can’t use Bright Futures outside of Florida.</p>
<p>Your pre-pay plan likely covers FL tuition and basic housing. That is probably about $10k per year. It doesn’t cover COA. So, find out the facts so you’ll know what you’re dealing with. Right now, you’re assuming that you’ll get all this money, but it doesn’t look like you would.</p>
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<p>That’s not an excuse. Just because someone has a yacht doesn’t mean that they don’t have any other attributes or qualities. Focusing on the yacht is just weird; imagine if strangers on the Internet started talking about some random item you own. It’s creepy and more than a bit unnecessary; we can sort of get an idea of this family’s income level even if we didn’t hear about the yacht. There’s no need to focus on the yacht since it doesn’t have much bearing on their decision on how much they are willing to shell out for a child’s college education.</p>
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<p>There are other colleges in Florida, aren’t there? You mentioned you were male; if you’re interested in becoming a rabbi, there’s Yeshiva Gedolah Rabbinical College. If you want to go to a smaller school than UF, you can consider Rollins or Lynn U. If you want something more overtly vocational or pre-professional oriented, there’s always a local campus of Devry or ITT Tech. The sky really is the limit, especially when you’re in a position where your family can send you to one of the best schools in the state.</p>
<p>I brought up the yacht just to point out it’s an expense, not an asset. You can’t sell it and have to maintain it. It costs a lot of money and can’t fault the dad for needing to spend 30K to fix the boat.</p>
<p>Here are some thoughts on why going out of state does not make sense for the OP:</p>
<p>1) The reason for leaving - Unless there is a specific program that is unique to one of these other schools, it comes down to wanting to change the scenery around the OP. As much as young people think the grass is greener, until they’ve walked the lawn they can’t certify it. Not seeing a compelling reason why any of these other locales are any better. This isn’t even a big city vs boonies question here.</p>
<p>2) The finances of getting a degree at a more “prestigous” university. Going to a place where you are “average” will more than likely result in your graduating “average” in your class and receiveing the “average” wage. Going to a school (using UF here) where you are significantly above average will get the OP more opportunities to excel (I’m sure there has got to be some honors program or whatnot to take advantage of). OP is more likely to graduate higher in the graduating class resulting in a greater chance of a higher than average salary for graduates of that institution.</p>
<p>Continuing on the finances - even if you have $19K to take with you, the $30K plus in additional costs at all of these schools adds up to $120K total. If you earn $10K more per year on the way out (after taxes), that would pay back the $120K investment in about 20-30 years, given the interest to support such debt. The marginal improvement in outcome (if there is any - I’m still thinking that the higher end UF graduates are likely to earn about as much as the average graduates from these other schools) doesn’t make business sense.</p>
<p>3) The “I’ve earned the right to go OOS because of my superior achievements” mentality does not necessarily address the family dynamic. My children have never been treated based upon some sense of competition. My children have different needs, motivators, etc. I try to do the best I can for what will move them ahead “within reason”, but overall they end up costing me about the same (although I only do rough math to come to that conclusion but don’t necessarily aim to keep it that way intentionally).</p>
<p>4) Note that I said “within reason”. FAFSA says I can pay $X per year, but FAFSA doesn’t know how much I have set aside for retirement, how much pension I may (or may not) have. It doesn’t know how much home equity I have (or don’t have any more). It doesn’t know that my wife has a debilitating disease that will cripple her and require extra care during her retirement.</p>
<p>Point here is that you say your dad can pay $52K per year based upon FAFSA. You also mentioned that your dad built a new home in 2006. My guess is that that was $400K or so endeavor that probably has lost more in value than your OOS college experience will cost. Don’t know what his other assets (stock, 401k, etc) have been doing lately, but I imagine his retirement plans have been shattered.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if you had a talk a couple of years ago about what college options would be available to you - perhaps your dad didn’t feel the need to as things were looking great a couple years ago, so at that time he could afford anything. It is difficult for most people who’ve lost a great deal of money to talk about those things. Some of it is embarassment of not being able to do those things you thought you could do. Some of it is uncertainty of where things are going.</p>
<p>Point here is that now is not necessarily the best time to be looking for a $120K committment from the Bank of Dad. Some times it is best to understand the family situation for what it has deteriorated to, acknowledge that perhaps your dad can’t keep everything going as it has been AND pay OOS tuition, express your gratitude for what you’ve been priveleged to have received so far in your life (I’m sure you’ve gotten what you need so far) and ask for future consideration (grad school financing?) when things turn around. </p>
<p>This, BTW, is coming from a father whose daughter has had the great fortune of getting an Army ROTC scholarship to attend an OOS school (full tution and books + a stipend - we still have to fund R&B). She’s proud to be able to contribute to achieving her dream (playing college hockey and preparing for a career in the Army) after we’ve shelled out her EFC for the past 4 years at a boarding school. She knows that it has been a big sacrifice to send her these past 4 years and knows (probably too much) about our financial situation. She could have had a full-ride locally at our state flagship and if she did ROTC here, she’d be getting paid to go to school, but I know that she’s worked hard at the opportunities we’ve opened up for her and that hockey (not available locally) is a major part of her personal development. So for us, we are indulging her hockey passion, as we see what it has done for her. To those on the outside, it may seem strange, but we know what she needs. I wouldn’t do this “just” because she wanted to get out of Dodge (although I do admit she really isn’t too fond of Dodge).</p>
<p>From this father’s perspective, I’m not seeing the compelling reason here.</p>
<p>I agree…</p>
<p>That said…I think the OP needs to consider this… The parents may think you’ve worked harder than your siblings, but that doesn’t mean that the parents are comfortable with spending a LOT more on your undergrad than they spent on theirs. </p>
<p>Even with your Bright Futures and pre-pay, you may be able to convince your parents to pay for a couple of study abroads and such. After all, your siblings probably didn’t earn the 3/4 tuition Bright Futures like you did. Therefore, “that money” could be used for a semester abroad or two.</p>
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<p>Exactly. Yachts (indeed, any luxury vehicle) are like mosquitos; they look nice and they’re a good status symbol, but simply having to maintain one isn’t in and of itself a sign of selfishness.</p>
<p>Well, actually they’re not like mosquitos at all. Ignore that bit.</p>
<p>^^^^^^^^^^^</p>
<p>“Exactly. Yachts (indeed, any luxury vehicle) are like mosquitos; they look nice and they’re a good status symbol, but simply having to maintain one isn’t in and of itself a sign of selfishness.”</p>
<p>HUH???..That could have been one of the best analogies EVER…Very funny</p>
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<p>Short answer is NO. Your independent status for financial aid purposes is due to a number of factors…none of which is simply living or going out of state. You would have to be an orphan, ward of the state, over age 24, a veteran, have a bachelors degree, be married, have a dependent YOU support. If you can’t answer yes to one of those questions…you are a dependent for financial aid purposes.</p>
<p>I am an engineer and a full pay parent who college costs for the kids will exceed the cost of our home. We have been saving for college for the kids since they were born and we have saved enough to pay, though it’s a little daunting. We have never bought a new car and have been very financially prudent. Education is so important to us that we would never dream of taking care of our own needs before those of our offspring, but that’s us and we are very fortunate to be in a position to not qualify for any aid. Owning a yacht while depriving your kids of worthwhile opportunities reminds me of another poster, jigfeet, whose father went to the Super Bowl every year but wouldn’t even fill out the FinAid form which prevented her from even getting loans. She is totally hosed. The OP’s situation is not nearly as bad and he will surely persevere. </p>
<p>I sympathize greatly with the OP. Carnegie Mellon, Cornell and Georgia Tech are great schools with a stimulating technology culture that I don’t think he will find at the University of Florida. I think the OP has a strong case why going to a great school would be of tremendous benefit to him. A serious discussion with the parents about the difference in opportunities and culture might influence them, but it may not. Without knowing what I know, it’s really hard to make them understand.</p>
<p>That said, if you get no movement from them, then go to UFlorida and excel. It will be fine. Doing well wherever you go is more important than where you go. I know that UFlorida graduates who excel do get into excellent graduate schools, and if you go to a top graduate school, especially for a PhD in engineering, you are almost always completely funded through teaching or research. UF has a very decent engineering program. </p>
<p>When you are older making serious dough and have your own kids, make sure you start saving for their education early so that they don’t go through what you are going through. You will certainly have the math skills to do it. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Thanks ClassicRocker. Maybe it’s time I begin formulating my opening statements and figure out how best to talk to them about this.</p>
<p>profase,
i am in a similar situation…
my parents dont think going to rice uni or emory uni are good enough to pay for.
they’d only pay for top 12 schools or so it seems.and i dont think im getting in to those.
so, i got into UF…and i was happy when i got in.
and i worked pretty hard in high school. and when u see such party kids and slackers going there…being ur peers…just partying…it’s like ur in the same level once again…and ur NOT the same. </p>
<p>and it sucks bc my parents dont want to pay for me anywhere else.
and UF is deff cheaper.</p>
<p>so what im considering is getting loans.
some of them say that u have to pay after 10 yrs of graduation…so ye…not bad…but still not great.
so maybe ur parents can pay 10,000 per year (that they’d pay for UFL)and then u can borrow the rest.
but bee sure its worth it. u dont want to waste ur life post grad paying for for ur college…and all…so u better work hard in college and after wards to make it worth it.
u dont want an education wasted. </p>
<p>im also contemplating at whether i should “do UF” or “something else”…</p>
<p>*some of them say that u have to pay after 10 yrs of graduation…so ye…not bad…but still not great. *</p>
<p>What??? Which loans are those? You may be confused. Usually you have 10 years to pay the student loans back, but the monthly payments **begin **shortly after graduation. Interest often accrues the entire time of the loan. </p>
<p>BTW…if you think it sucks having some classmates that don’t take school seriously, imagine 10 years of having no extra money while you’re paying loans back while your peers are moving on with their lives…buying nice cars, nice homes, traveling, building some savings, etc… That will suck!</p>
<p>*and i worked pretty hard in high school. and when u see such party kids and slackers going there…being ur peers…just partying…it’s like ur in the same level once again…and ur NOT the same. *</p>
<p>I see this as an opportunity - if you are willing to apply yourself and work hard, your performance will shine and stand out amidst all those slackers.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Very good point…and the profs will select YOU for their special projects and opportunities!!!</p>
<p>Okay, I got into Cornell 
:)… does this change the argument? Should I heavily push my dad to pay for it?</p>
<p>Profase: You still have fundamentally the same issues. Either your parents philosophically don’t feel that they should pay substantially more than in-state costs for your schooling – for whatever reasons, or your parents have financial issues that seriously constrain them from paying more, and you’re just not aware of them.</p>
<p>If the first, you can certainly try persuading them to see it differently, but I don’t know them and can’t estimate whether it will work. It isn’t unreasonable to try. But understand that they simply may not agree with you – and that even though other parents in a similar situation might not make the same choice, that’s life. You would certainly find that there are many other families that would make the exact same decision. (And, you can read on this board the sad tales of all the kids of divorced parents whose non-custodial fathers absolutely refuse to contribute in any way to college costs.)</p>
<p>If the situation is that they do not have the cash flow from income to support the costs and they don’t want to take on debt (or can’t afford to, or can’t qualify for loans,…) then that’s a reality that you might not understand.</p>
<p>Kids often see what they want to see about parent finances, and don’t understand many of the complexities. Many families in Florida have homes that are worth dramatically less than the mortgages they owe. There is a minimal resale market for boats right now because of all of the repossessed boats. Most people’s retirement savings have been hammered, and with you being the third child my guess is that your parents may be closer to retirement age – and ten years until retirement is not a lot of time to recoup the big losses most people suffered in the stock market meltdown. None of these things are really considered in the FAFSA calculations, but they are very real issues for many families.</p>
<p>You should feel great about your admission to Cornell. But, it may not work for the very same reasons your other out-of-state option didn’t work.</p>
<p>Congrats on getting accepted to Cornell.</p>
<p>However, how does that change anything if it doesn’t inspire your parents to pay? Borrowing big debt for Cornell is silly, too.</p>
<p>Have you found out exactly how much of your Pre-pay can go towards a school outside of Florida? Your Bright Futures cannot be used outside of FL.</p>
<p>I called the Florida prepaid customer service and they said:</p>
<p>They pay $96 per credit, and my plan has 120 credits, so $11,520.
And then $2308 per semester for dorms, and I have 4 semesters worth, so $9,232.
Total: $20,752</p>
<p>Considerably less than I hoped.</p>