High EFC, parents don't want to pay

Paying for College
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<p>Paying for grad school: If you’re admitted to a PhD program in engineering, I’d expect that the school probably would give you significant funding via tuition waiver, teaching assistantship and then research assistantships, and that you probably would be able to get summer RA work through a faculty member’s grant. At least, most of the folks I know who went that route got that kind of arrangement.</p>

<p>Masters degree students – particularly terminal masters (where you do not intend/are not admitted to a PhD program) often don’t have many of those features, and many of the people in those programs are either private pay or being subsidized by an employer. In SoCal, quite a number of large engineering/computer employers paid for certain grad schools either on a part-time or full-time basis for students pursuing a masters degree. I think a lot of those students worked at their employer over the summer each year, and there may have been some requirement that they continue to work for the employer for some period of time after the degree. (Little fuzzy on that one.)</p>

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<p>Wow, a lot of people bashing this kid for wanting to maximize HIS future. This is HIS life. Don’t you get it? Who are you to tell him what he shouldn’t do? Who are you? </p>

<p>What is this talk on CollegeConfidential no less, where we tell people that a failed high school career can lead to a bright future at a prestigious school? Where people come to thank everyone when they get their letters of acceptance to a dream school and they’re in tears? Where people come for advice to make the best possible efforts to achieve their dreams, and now when he achieves his, we pee all over it and tell him it’s too expensive?</p>

<p>His parents have a $52,000 estimated family contribution. They’re NOT hurting for money. Even if he was their ONLY child, that would put them way above the $100k bracket in salary. They’re pinching pennies and cutting corners on their child’s education. </p>

<p>Is University of Miami a good school? Sure. Is UF a good school? Sure. But don’t sit there and tell me that some doors will still be open if he has a UF degree versus a Stanford, Berkeley, JHU or Duke degree. Don’t even try to tell me that. This kid worked his butt off. Those are sacrifices HE made to get to where he is and his parents are trying to shut those doors and cut corners on his future. It’s not fair, because in all honesty, he’s not getting need-based aid based on some ridiculous system for judging need, that doesn’t take into consideration that there’s no LAW that requires your parents to pay for your college and you’re considered an adult when you’re 18. </p>

<p>@Original poster:
I’m really sorry you’re in this position, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you pursuing your dreams. This is what I think you should do:</p>

<h1>1) Talk to your parents. Explain to them that if they bottleneck you into a degree at UF or University of Miami, that they’ll be minimizing your future. Show them articles about what an education means at Berkeley or Stanford.</h1>

<h1>2) Contact the schools you got accepted to. Write a financial aid advisor from each school and explain your situation. Tell them how well you’ve done in school, and that your parents are essentially cutting you off if you go somewhere else.</h1>

<h1>3) Apply for scholarships and grants. I know it’s kind of a moot point, but they’re out there and if you did well enough to get accepted to Berkeley as a freshmen applicant, then I know you have the grades for merit based aid.</h1>

<h1>4) A long shot, but talk to your aunts and uncles. Explain the situation to them as well. On one hand, you get them involved in your education so they know that you got accepted to prestigious schools. On the other hand, your parents might be troubled that you’re making your disagreement with them public. This might persuade them to help you.</h1>

<p>To the parents posting here: I don’t think you understand how privileged his parents’ income is. They have a $52,000 EFC and paid $30,000 to get a yacht engine fixed. This kid’s parents are NOT in the same financial position as some of you.</p>

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<p>Ahh I just read and got updated.</p>

<p>Graduate School:
Honestly, by that time, you’ll be a college graduate and a lot of what happens depends mostly on how well you did while you were there. Berkeley and some other Universities offer 5 year MS programs that allow you to acquire a master’s degree only 1 year after acquiring your bachelor’s. Look into those. It’ll be very easy to get into graduate school as an EECS major if you’re pursuing a Ph.D. </p>

<p>People might tell you that graduate school is hard to get into and all this stuff and expensive. The truth of the matter is, colleges WANT people to get PhD’s with them. In fact, they might even PAY you for it. What do they get out of it? You teach their classes, that’s the first. Almost every top ranked school has graduate students teaching their discussion classes for undergraduates. The second thing they get, is research. When you study for your PhD at a school, that school has their name on all your research. If you discover a cure for aids in your research, Cal Tech or Georgia Tech or Cornell will have their name on it if you’re studying it there. Even if you don’t discover anything, the more you research there, the better the school looks. The third thing is that someone gets a PhD at their school! They WANT to graduate PhD students. </p>

<p>Also, it’s not hard to do well at graduate school. What takes a lot of effort, is to fail. The thing about graduate school teachers, is that they can’t really “fail” you, because if they fail you, you did all their research. What does that say about their research? </p>

<p>Take the opportunity to go to a better school for your major. The thing is, when it comes to engineering, where you got your degree DOES matter. Because that’s where the good research is done. If you graduate from EECS from Berkeley, that tells an employer that you worked with Berkeley professors, you did internships with Berkeley researchers, you got accepted to one of the best Electrical Engineering undergraduate colleges in the country. A 3.0 from there, still looks better than a 4.0 from some top 30 or top 40 ranked school.</p>

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<p>Both my husband and myself went to graduate school with all expenses paid and stipends. If H can do it as a humanities major, you should be able to do it as a math/science major.</p>

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<p>You parents are being quite reasonable, and you should make sure that you show your gratitude. I mean it. </p>

<p>I recommend scenario 2. </p>

<p>I also recommend that the “parental scholarship” threshold be a 3.0. Below that and you are wasting their money. Making it higher is putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on you. Engineering is very difficult and you will have to work your butt off just to do the 3.0. This is especially true Freshman year, when the whole college thing is all new to you. You also want the freedom to take some risks, like honors sections, etc, because you never know how hard you can push yourself until you try. </p>

<p>If you want to go to graduate school, your GPA really ought to be substantially higher, but I think that’s too high a threshold to lose your scholarship. Also, I think GPA’s tend to improve once you get the hang of managing your time and after you’ve had a few summer co-ops or internships to give you some perspective. Save the money you earn over the summers. </p>

<p>You finance you’re own graduate school. If you go into a PhD program, you’ll be funded. If you go into a Masters program, it’s often employer funded, or you may be able to get a TA-ship. The fact is that many people get a Masters after dropping out of a PhD program when they discover that it’s not for them. In that case, it’s usually funded too. Sometimes you have to pay for one year yourself. That’s why saving your summer earnings is a good idea. </p>

<p>If you go to a professional school like an MBA, JD or MD, you borrow the money.</p>

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<p>Esssenar, I think all of us understand their financial position. But the money belongs to the parents and they control it. The parents are NOT cutting him off and I don’t think they’re completely unreasonable - my guess is that they’re trying to show that they value a strong work ethic and understand their own situation more completely than any of us ever will. Being a whiny brat about it or claiming that their decision will forever bottleneck his career (which isn’t true) will not help the OP and may further limit his choices.</p>

<p>Profase, I think you should be asking current students at those schools what it takes for an engineering major to achieve the gpa your parents are looking for. While Cornell is a great school, it is known for high gpa’s. Not trying to dissuade you, but it would be awful
if you lost parental support after only one year! Perhaps the gpa range should not be “set in stone”, as some schools are known for grade inflation and others are notorious for deflation.</p>

<p>(Btw, have you actually visited Ithaca? Not the city life by any stretch!)</p>

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<p>^^good advice. OP your parents have been entirely reasonable. Hopefully you can take your visits, get some of the questions that have been suggested answered and make an informed decision. Bottom line, I think your parents hope and want you to make an informed decision grounded in specifics as opposed to making an emotional decision.</p>

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<p>"To the parents posting here: I don’t think you understand how privileged his parents’ income is. They have a $52,000 EFC and paid $30,000 to get a yacht engine fixed. This kid’s parents are NOT in the same financial position as some of you. "</p>

<p>52k efc and 30k for fixing a yacht engine do not seem consistent. A 52k efc is not a particularly high efc.</p>

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<p>Sk8rmom, I’m through trying to be reasonable with you. I’ll just coin you into the “not willing to be rational” category, and consider that a done story.</p>

<p>The fact that you actually think a UF graduate in engineering will have the same opportunities as a Berkeley or JHU graduate, means that there literally is no point talking to you. You’re unwilling to listen to reason or what other engineering students/graduates think. </p>

<p>I don’t get where this false dilemma started to gain momentum either. Why is it that, if he goes to UF he’ll get a 4.0 but if he goes to JHU or Berkeley, all of a sudden he’s going to get a 2.5? </p>

<p>I like how people defend UF and claim it’s just as good of a school as JHU or Berkeley and on the same coin, admit that it’s easier to get good grades there. I also like how, none of you have even met this kid and you’re going to assume that he’s incapable of achieving great grades at an Ivy league school.</p>

<p>I’ll tell you what- I’d rather be a whiny brat than a condescending assumption maker. And I’m no brat by any means. I’m paying for college out of my own pocket, but I can tell you right now that if I had a kid and he got accepted to Berkeley, I’d sell my yacht at a loss to make sure he took that chance. Why even have kids if your assets and expenses are more valuable to you than them? </p>

<p>It makes sense that only a minority of parents will support him taking advantage of his opportunities and the majority of parents posting here are trying to slam him. </p>

<p>Very mature of you guys, really.</p>

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<p>I am with ClassicRockerDad - I am thrilled to be able to do what I can to help my kids pay for college. It is one of the joys of my life. </p>

<p>It is also my choice. Not all parents make that same choice, and it doesn’t make their choice wrong. It is the parent’s money to spend as he or she chooses. </p>

<p>So to the OP… if your parents are not willing to pay you really should go to UF <em>hugs</em> But I do hope you can convince them to pay for Cornell <em>grin</em></p>

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<p>^^^^^</p>

<p>I was beginning to believe UF was better then Berkeley :wink: NOT!!!</p>

<p>Lots of “love” for the state schools and no “love” for the others</p>

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<p>Thank you for all of your replies, and your long responses Essenar.</p>

<p>I plan on traveling to JHU and Cornell either this or next weekend. I’m a little undecided about going to CMU because if my education is going to be $50,000, I think I should go to a school where I will get to do my major (CMU waitlisted me for ECE, but accepted me to any other engineering). I realize Ithaca is not a city like Baltimore or Pittsburgh, but it’s a new place and in an area of the country I really want to live in (Northeast).</p>

<p>My parents believe that UF will get me into an equally prestigious grad school - maybe they’re wrong, maybe they’re not. I don’t believe this though. There must be something that makes the private education worth the money, and I plan on proving that to myself in my coming visits.</p>

<p>From what you guys know, what would you say about my 3 options:

  1. Cornell, non-city, perhaps I will not like the weather, my intended major, very good in ECE.
  2. CMU, city, weather more manageable, not my intended major (possibly I make it in on the waitlist, or I transfer from another dept.), very good in ECE
  3. JHU, city, good weather, my intended major, ok ECE? I don’t know how reputable they are in this dept.</p>
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<p>The OP has been advised to look into who recruits on the campuses he is interested in. The OP has also been given links to the average starting salaries from many of the colleges he is interested in. Starting salaries are tightly clustered with the exception of CalTech and MIT neither of which are under consideration. The parents have also given the OP financing options for all of the schools under consideration and agreed that he can make visits to check out the campuses. At this point they are not saying he must go to school in Florida. The OP has been advised to read threads on the colleges he is interested in to determine grade inflation/deflation. I’m not sure given what you are posting if you’ve read the entire thread so this is a quick synopsis to “catch you up.”</p>

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<p>Check very carefully with CMU on the number of CMU students allowed to transfer in to ECE vs. the number who applied to transfer in. UCSD is really good in bioengineering, but it is hard to find anyone who wasn’t admitted as a freshman who was able to transfer in from UCSD as a sophomore. </p>

<p>And to qdogpa: Rather than thinking of it as lots of love for UF, think of it as lots and lots of dislike for students taking on huge debt or pushing parents to get in over their heads financially, combined with a fair amount of pragmatic understanding from adults who’ve been to college and who’ve seen that things are usually not as clear as “No matter what it costs, either I go to this expensive name brand college or my life will be dirt” as many teenagers seem to think.</p>

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<p>I’ll comment on the weather. I disagree with two of your assumptions – namely “weather more managable” for CMU and “good weather” for JHU.</p>

<p>Coming from FL, the weather at any of these schools is going to be colder and snowier than you are accustomed to, and the differences between the schools is subtle. On average,there will be more snow in Ithaca than Pittsburgh (not true this year). Ithaca and Pittsburgh will be equally cold. Baltimore will stay a little warmer later into the fall and Spring will come a couple of weeks earlier. Usually not as much snow in Baltimore as in the other two locations, but sometimes that is worse – IMHO a 40º rainy day is more miserable than a 30º snowy day.</p>

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<p>arabrab, please READ my posts, as i frequently,if not always, say to attend a school you and oyur parents can AFFORD…That said, many follow-up replies allude to a belief that state schools are “better” then private,and the like schools…UF can’t and doesn’t play in the same sandbox as Berkeley</p>

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<p>I don’t think I’ve read many posts asserting that state schools (in general) are better than elite private schools – but that wasn’t the OPs concern. If money wasn’t (somewhat) of an issue, he wouldn’t have been posting about this. </p>

<p>But where money is a concern – or a limiting factor – then it ought to come into the equation in a fair way. For your typical undergraduate, going to NYU to major in economics is probably better than going to U of whatever (though I can think of a couple of exceptions), but going to NYU at the cost of taking on huge debt or impoverishing your family – not nearly worth it, particularly when evidence indicates that students who were accepted at “elite” universities but who end up going elsewhere do as well as their counterparts who were accepted and who attended those elite universities. </p>

<p>If money is no object, then buy the BMW, the mansion on the waterfront, or the expensive private college. For everyone else, evaluate your options – often that will mean a public university and much lower costs. Then, bloom where you are planted. Make the most of what your school and faculty can offer, and you’re not going to be hampered in life.</p>

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<p>I totally agree with your sentiment arabrab…maybe not your example but the gist of the statement. There are certain colleges - both elite, non-elite and public - that are “known” for certain majors and there are generally two or three that are “the best” for a certain major. Always good to include that factor in the thinking process. And yes 5 years out which is a blink of an eye the wheat is separated from the chaff and where the undergrad was done matters far, far less than what the individual is doing.</p>

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<p>Agree 100%.</p>

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<p>Not only is it not a big city, it’s very far from a big city. Academically, though, I think it is your best option. </p>

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<p>No school will get you into a prestigious grad school. The school merely provides you with opportunities, some more than others. You still have to take those opportunities and excel with them. YOU will have to get yourself into a prestigious grad school, and you can do it from all of your options. Sometimes it’s hard to get undergraduate research opportunities at big public schools - it is certainly a question to ask about Florida. I do remember that there were quite a few graduates in the MIT resume book who had advanced degrees from MIT after getting an undergraduate degree at University of Florida. The real question which is harder to answer, is how likely are you to get the research opportunities at Florida that you might get at Cornell in order to get yourself into graduate school. </p>

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<p>I think the benefits are of going to an elite school for engineering - and you want to make sure these benefits will be available to you are
a) access to cutting edge research as an undergraduate
b) school culture where technology is very highly regarded
c) heavy recruitment by national companies
d) Great peers. You will learn a lot from your peers. </p>

<p>I think that that benefits of going to a private school for engineering have more to do with advising and with the safety net for when you are struggling. For example, I know someone struggling through engineering at a public school who has very little guidance and very little support. He won’t graduate in 4 years, and if you take the cost of the extra year added to the cost of not earning the first year’s salary that he otherwise would have been earning, the cost savings of going to the public school are wiped out. </p>

<p>I think Cornell and Carnegie, I would consider elite (I noticed that Georgia Tech is no longer in the mix, but if you can survive that, I would consider that one elite also -it is also cheaper, though perhaps not too supportive). Johns Hopkins is interesting. It’s a small research university with potentially great research opportunities. I think it would be a great place to prepare for graduate school, but less sure if they are large enough to attract national recruiters. I know they attract recruiters from the northeast though. I’ve heard that they tend to do less handholding than some other schools. For example, I know that at MIT or Princeton, someone will notice if you are doing poorly and try to reach out to you. I think that happens at Cornell too. I’m less sure of that at Hopkins. This can be the basis for questions that you should ask current students at these schools.</p>

<p>Good luck doing you’re due diligence on your trips. Make them worthwhile.</p>