@ucbalumnus definitely traditional students. UPS has their worldwide air hub in Louisville, and they need a large pool of part-time labor to support that. College students fit the bill, which led to this partnership between U of L and the company. Decent hourly wages, benefits, as well as free tuition for a part-time job. It does help a lot of students afford college and graduate debt free. But definitely traditional students without family/children, because it is a part-time hourly wage job. In-state only, not available to OOS students.
@LOUKYDAD: And heck, even at a rich private where a bunch of extracurricular stuff is paid for by the school, there will be a qualitative difference in the experience between work-study students and students who don’t have to do work-study.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/Honors-Should-Mean-a/128229
^Interesting article
“Honors should mean a challenge, not an upgrade to first class”
@homerdog – I’m a graduate of the UNC honors program, and while I think it’s been beefed up over the [cough cough] years since I graduated, I think the general program thrust – to get students closer to the faculty – remains the same. Small classes specifically for honors students, which is particularly useful for the non-major distribution requirements to avoid the larger classes, an honors thesis, etc. You probably already know this, but it’s not an honors college (i.e., no dorm, etc.) just a program.
I get the sense from reading other CC threads that in order to qualify for the honors program at this point, especially as an OOS applicant, you really do need to have elite LAC-like scores. I’m pretty sure your S19 is at that level, but it’s not a slam dunk for anyone.
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Thanks homerdog and carolinamom, return pm’s sent. 
The honors program at UNC has housing now. It’s not easy to get in as an OOS student… high stats alone does not guarantee acceptance. Most of the spots are saved for the instate students.
@twogirls, I hope its a new Honors building at UNC. When we toured two years ago, those were some of the oldest and unimpressive dorms we saw that year. I think some did not have air conditioning. I love the school spirit though, and S preferred it over Duke.
Ultimately, S did not apply to UNC, in part because something like 85% of the population is instate. UGA also has a predominance of instate students because of the Hope Scholarship. I suppose an argument can be made that a state can have a very diverse population within it, may be true, for example, of CA.
I don’t know what dorm it is… I just know they have their own housing for those who want it.
@Nomorelurker my D is OOS. At first the 85% instate population made her feel anxious…she thought everybody came in with friend groups…but she quickly learned a few things…
- there is a lot of diversity instate
- friend groups from HS exist, but there are plenty who don’t know anybody
- it’s very easy to meet students from all over the country ( and world)
- she enjoys being an “outsider” ( although she doesn’t feel like an outsider anymore)
- not being accepted to honors did not matter- she still got ( and has) the opportunities and experiences she wanted
My daughter’s first year dorm was renovated in 2012… it was not fancy, but neither is she. She liked it… despite having the reputation as the ugliest dorm on campus 
Getting back to the original topic… there is no set answer to this question. It depends on the student, costs ( if that matters), and the individual schools. @homerdog your son may not make honors at UNC or UVA… but maybe he will… who knows. My OOS daughter got into both schools but did not make honors at either one. UNC does allow students to apply to honors later on… my daughter briefly considered it but decided against it because she has something else going on and she can’t do both.
I imagine Honors programs at flagships like UVA and UNC are less important than other state flagship because they enjoy two unusual characteristics:
- Extremely selective admissions (many would qualify for other state honors programs so your typical student is at that level- I realize some may be party animals or jocks or whatever - but you'll find that to be the case in most honors programs anyway)
- The schools themselves are not massive. UVA's undergrad is approx 15k and UNC is 18k. Big difference between that and 30-50k. Those campuses are like little cities. Honors program will make the experience more intimate even at UVA and UNC, but probably more dramatic at other places.
@twogirls I’ve seen a number of high stat OOS kids not even getting into UNC let alone getting into the honors program so I hear you.
@rickle1 great points about the size of both schools.
@homerdog I do think your son has a chance of getting in… he is a very strong student. Does your school have Naviance? What is your schools history? Getting into honors… however… is crazy for OOS… but you never know!
Good luck… I hope all of your questions are getting answered.
@twogirls yes our high school’s Naviance shows he should get in with his SAT and GPA but I don’t count on anything these days!
@homerdog what does your son enjoy doing in his spare time? What experience is he looking for?
Though a 15K uni isn’t much like a LAC. Even a 7K undergrad uni isn’t much like a LAC.
At a LAC, you’ll know everyone in your class and most in the class above and class below.
Some consider that to be like HS/middle school, but some people like that size.
Just something to consider.
@twogirls I’ll PM you
@homerdog OOS at UVA and UNC is VERY competitive. Kind of ridiculous actually. Made me think I should have moved to one of those states prior as in state would have been a lock for S. I know it’s purely anecdotal but 3.95 UW / 5.8 W (All APS and honors - all his schools had), 1410 / 31, Senior class President, 4 yr varsity athlete (2 yrs captain), Student ambassador, Link Mentor, all kinds of honor societies, AP Scholar with distinction, etc. Was his schools Jefferson Scholars nominee and got through the first round, and… denied at both UVA and UNC. (not even deferred).
Had really good (really really good essays- Jefferson Scholars committee even commented on it at his interview).
He was accepted into W & M which is also quite difficult for OOS so go figure.
Kind of a crap shoot.
The neat thing is he’s happy at Wake Forest and it’s a really good fit for him. Given the choice, he might have chosen UVA. Glad he’s where he is.
It does seem from comments on the UVA thread that if you have the stats the UVA decision is probably very dependent on whether they like the essay. But the OOS stats requirements are really tough (33-35 ACT this year for EA). S18 got Echols OOS (FWIW he is senior class president, 4.0UW, 10 APs (five 5s, one 3 so far), 1540 SAT, top 1-2%, lots of community service) and thought his UVA essay was the best one he wrote.
However, we are very annoyed that his incompetent guidance counselor failed to bother making a Jefferson nomination for the school despite him asking several times, because UVA would be far more expensive than our in-state UC costs. He wasn’t too bothered when it was 30 scholarships available compared to ~13000 admits (or even 6000 EA admits), but 30 out of say ~500 Echols admits (of which 200-250 per year attend) makes him feel he might have had some chance at being a competitive candidate.
The counselors are probably very overburdened with high school student issues (not just college issues). Perhaps that is why UCs do not use counselor reports.