I’m not sure what you mean. Are you saying the difference is in the quality of the student? Yes, Michigan’s average student is not as strong as average Ivy admits, but there is significant overlap. I suspect that the reasons I gave in #348 are bigger issues.
@PurpleTitan “And it’s not as if all majors are available to all students either at a private. Try to change your major to business at Penn or theatre at NU or CS at CMU if you didn’t come in admitted in to those majors.”
Still, each situation is different, but the in general the publics are significantly worse. At many publics, you can’t even change from Mech e to Chem e without an having to apply, and you may be rejected.
Penn is unusual in having a barrier to switch to Wharton, but other privates like Case Western or Lehigh will allow you to easily switch among engineering majors or even to business, if you wish. You can’t do that at Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, or Purdue, to name a few.
Yes it always depends on specifics, but in general privates are more flexible.
@circuitrider: Yes, but the number of majors in general is way less at a LAC as well. There would be far more non-impacted majors at any large uni than the total number of majors at a LAC.
@Much2learn, I know that UIUC is fairly strict about slotting kids in to engineering majors (though they now have an “engineering undecided” or something like that which allows students in that category to choose any engineering major). Is that true with those other publics? Though yes, it may be true that with many of them, you’d have to apply to an engineering major.
“Are you saying the difference is in the quality of the student? Yes, Michigan’s average student is not as strong as average Ivy admits, but there is significant overlap. I suspect that the reasons I gave in #348 are bigger issues.”
But all you have is a suspicion. I can just as easily suspect that entering student quality accounts for a large amount of the difference. As you noted, with the Brown median being almost the same as the UVa/UMich medians, there is even greater overlap in salary outcomes between Brown and UVa/UMich than there is an overlap in entering student quality.
Michigan will not let you switch into business without applying. It is very difficult to get in because Ross undergrad is tiny.
Wisconsin makes you apply to get into an eng major, then again for a change within eng or to business.
Illinois makes you apply for a change within eng or to business. Plus Chem e is in Chemistry instead of engineering, so that adds even more complexity.
Purdue makes you apply to get into an eng major and again to get into an eng major, then again for a change within eng.
Compare those to Case Western or Lehigh where you can easily change to any eng. or business major if you are in good standing.
I know you know all about this, PT. I don’t understand why you are being difficult.
@Much2learn, I thought you were just talking about engineering.
Anyway, yes, one should look in to the details of each school.
@circuitrider:
“What matters is that the average undergraduate can only take but so many courses.”
To some people, the amount of choice available also matters, and even with impacted majors/classes, a big uni will almost certainly offer more choice than a LAC (and whether those choices are in fields they care about is an individual matter).
I dream of a day when all kids who will have to full pay at top end private colleges only apply and go to Honors Colleges which will give them merit based money so they will attend colleges for free, while kids whose families are not doing well financially and will be able to receive free financial aid so they will be able to go to top end colleges for almost free just apply to and attend top end private colleges. That way, almost every kid can go to colleges for free. That way, 99% of students at top end private colleges will be from families who are struggling financially, while 99% of attending students at Honors Colleges will be from affluent families who want free college education at decent colleges. Let’s bankrupt all types of colleges. Lol
Your dream assumes that finances are the main reasons people don’t choose “top and private colleges” is financial and that is not accurate. I’ve seen people bankrupt their retirement accounts to send their kids to "top end colleges " looking for the utopia they’ve been brainwashed that exists there @websensation . People choose schools for a variety of reasons . I know this is very hard for some people to believe, but not everyone wants or needs a “top or private school” to survive or even be successful. You made your choice based on what was important to you, so do others. They just place their importance in a different place.
My daughter did not want a LAC and she turned down her acceptances to highly ranked private schools ( non LACs). After looking at these schools again… the fit was not there.
These excellent schools are not for everybody… for many reasons. To think otherwise … is to look at this through a very narrow lens.
@carolinamom2boys I agree that people choose schools for a variety of reasons. I was jokingly pointing out that sometimes there are more than financial reason to go or not go to certain school. All I know is it’s hard to determine the real “fit” when money and prestige are in play. I think the fit incorporates both money and prestige factors. I bet if you do an experiment, people with money will generally view a top end college as a better fit, whereas people without money will generally view Honors Colleges as a better fit.
If both Colleges A and B would have cost the same and are both equally prestigious, but you decided to attend College B, then it would be easy for me to believe you are choosing College B based on the fit. This scenario is non-existent for most people.
Good luck to your kids for attending great schools.
This line of thought did raise a question for me: I wonder how many kids of rich families who can easily send their kids to any school which will accept them actually chose to send their kids to Honors Colleges on big merit money?
Unfortunately you may be right that people with money view a top end college as a better fit. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it is true or that Honors Colleges are lesser options.
And as an aside, my son is surrounded by highly successful students at his Honors College that chose to attend there over instate selective schools. Some of them even had family members who taught at selective schools . Some even would have legacy status at LACs. That’s why it’s important not to make generalizations regarding programs . The only way to know if a school may be a good fit is to research that school’s specific program and , if possible, make a visit.
Sometimes those large public schools prepare the kids for life… just as an enrollment controlled major might. Certainly, if a major is enrollment controlled, if you are hiring from there, you know you are getting the cream of the crop in that major.
I know, when I started working a million years ago, the public school kids were paid less (starting salary) than the private school kids. But within 3 years, we were all at the same salary - public school kids got greater raises (%) than the private school kids - it became how well you were performing on the job.
Are you saying that the private school kids were paid more than the public school kids… for the same job… and the same experience? What field was this?
@twogirls consulting. (this will date me). public school kid (not honors, just regular kid) was $26k, private school kid was $28k. within 2-3 years, they were both managers and making $40k (or whatever the actual number was).
Very common for corporate jobs to pay entry level peeps in a range - dependent upon school, experience, major, etc. (even from same school). Usually they are evened out at a point in time where job performance is the determining factor.