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American schools started considering EC’s and ‘leadership’ as a way to keep the Jews out,
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<p>Oh good heavens…since when don’t Jewish children do ECs? My Jewish nieces and nephew are fab musicians and my nephew is a soccer star, and I don’t think they are unique.</p>
<p>as for “keeping Jews out,” I know that it is an ugly aspect that some top univs did many, many decades ago, but that hasn’t gone on for a very long time, so why bring that up?</p>
<p>Wait I’m confused - are you denying that’s why American unis started looking at ECs and leadership, or not?</p>
<p>And for why I brought it up, it’s to explain why foreign universities don’t care about them.</p>
<p>Seems like your son is the type of person who would love to volunteer at a video game store or at something involving children. He can interact with them and play with them because he loves games. Or he can tutor them seeing that he is excelley at math. The high stats will get him into a great school for sure, but add one or two more ECs to really make him stand out. There are thousands of kids who have top grades and top SAR scores. Right now, he looks like a kid that will stay in his dorm and just study. Colleges don’t want students like that. They want students who will participate in more than just academic activities. Make it look like he has a personality even though he is very introverted. </p>
<p>Since your son is just a sophomore, there’s still time for adjustments. Math team is an excellent EC, and all he really needs is one more activity. Many kids don’t get involved until junior year. It’s not ideal, but not a deal breaker either. </p>
<p>Visiting some campuses this summer might be a really good idea, a way to motivate him. Visit a highly selective school, and one that isn’t. If he gets excited about the selective school, make sure he understands that the way he can make himself more attractive is by playing fewer video games and doing more interesting things outside the classroom. The motivation really needs to come from within. And he needs to hear this from external sources, not from you. </p>
<p>If he’s not motivated to leave his bedroom, after he has all the facts, then he’s made a decision and you’ll have to live with it.</p>
<p>And don’t assume the southern schools are easier to get into. They’ve become very competitive. Also, realize that there are many great schools that will meet his intellectual needs.</p>
<p>Yes, if he’s just a sophomore, plenty of time to nudge him a little. My older son was very similar in personality. His school ECs were Academic Team and Science Olympiad. The difference was that he ended up teaching himself a lot of computer programming at home and then various opportunities came out of that. (He wrote some programs for science professors (Dh being one of them), then he job shadowed one summer, and work in computer programming another summer.) He also had no community service hours through school so I insisted he spend time on summer volunteering at the local community center. He helped seniors with the computer center and also did some other programming work for their front office. He was not very proactive, for the jobs and volunteer work, but was great on the follow-through. I didn’t give him hte choice of staying in his bedroom for the summer. I agree with fireanddrain - two good ECs, especially if one is done at a national level are enough. </p>
<p>As for what schools will be interested him - state universities are the obvious choice. Chicago is a long shot, because I think they care a lot about having interesting people, but if he can sell himself in the essays and has enthusiastic recommendations, his math achievements will be a plus. I think he would do fine at most tech school just under the most selective ones. (ie Case Western, RPI, WPI).</p>
<p>Both my kids worked p/t at a grocery store throughout their jr/sr years of high school. The experience/lessons learned were invaluable to both and helped “fill in a blank” on college apps. </p>
<p>I think it is important for kids to do “something”, not just because colleges look for it but because it is a way to give back to the community, meet kids outside of school and develop other aspects of their personalities. Personally, I would require him to pick one other activity for the summer either a volunteer position, a summer program at a college, a camp program or something like learning an instrument or how to knit or taking up an athletic activity (anything from yoga to swimming to karate). Something that requires some level of commitment and getting out of the house on a schedule. If you can’t get him to commit to anything, I would come up with a very long list of summer projects. There is (IMHO) no reason why a 15 year old can’t do something with his summer other than play video games or sleep. YMMV!</p>
<p>@mathmom I actually don’t think Chicago would care as much about extracurriculars since they would like to attract more intellectual types and a lot of the times those are the kids that are not doing many extracurriculars. This is because they may be focused on one thing or want time to themselves to read and think. </p>
<p>I just graduated from Penn but socially I think I would have fit in better at Chicago (I don’t regret my time at Penn by any stretch but I am much closer to the Chicago type than the average Penn type. I only did music and science olympiad in high school, both which I devoted a lot of time to.</p>
<p>I personally think most high school ECs are fluff and don’t understand how they are that important in predicting how someone will do academically and be involved in college since so many kids just do them to add to their resumes. I know a kid who did scientific research and then never took a science class in college since it was really all for show.</p>
<p>What is nice about PhD programs is I didn’t have to worry about doing ECs unrelated to my interests (intensive research) to be a qualified applicant. For example, I am not a club joiner and never have been. In high school I always felt like I should be joining clubs for my college application even though I never went through with it. I think club membership is the prime offender when it comes to fluffing your resume. So many clubs (definitely not all) don’t really do anything meaningful. </p>
<p>@Poeme, it’s all anecdotal, but my kid who got into Chicago was a B+/A- student with lopsided scores. I don’t think any kid needs lots of extra-curriculars, but I do think most of the selective private colleges, including Chicago,are looking for a number of kids who will contribute to the college outside of academics. (Though note that Harvard is on record that they accept a couple hundred kids only based on top flight academics.) In any event, I don’t think Chicago, Harvard or their ilk are looking for laundry lists of activities. I do think they are looking for kids who do a couple of things well and who do something productive during the summers. </p>
<p>You aren’t going to get any brownie points for spending the summer watching sports and playing video games. My kids didn’t do ECs to look good for colleges they did them to have fun with friends. My older son’s ECs were all either academic or computer science related. My younger son did Science Olympiad and the literary magazine to be with friends. He’s no scientist, but I don’t think it hurt him at all to learn a lot about ecology even though he took very little science in college. Nor do I think it hurts for a kid to do research in high school and learn what that is like, even if they choose a different path for their future. I helped my kids find things to do in the summer, because I really don’t think it’s good for kids to do nothing - camp, courses in things they are interested in, jobs, and volunteer work were all perfectly acceptable activities.</p>
<p>U Chicago is more stats driven now than they were 5-10 years ago. There’s been a recent and radical change.</p>
<p>If I had a kid as exceptional as yours who didn’t want a job or a time consuming volunteer role for the summer, this kid would become the household butler/cook/maid and handy person.</p>
<p>One week of grocery shopping, meal prep, laundry, and lawn mowing, he’d be thrilled to be scooping ice cream or folding sweaters at the Gap.</p>
<p>I think every kid gets a week to sleep late and vegetate after the school year ends if the schedule permits. After that- back to reality. If you do not insist on a paying job, there are no elderly family members who need help paying bills or cleaning the garage? No neighbors who need help (I have a neighbor with ALS with young kids- their household would have fallen apart were it not for the teenagers on the block). I don’t think college is the problem- your son will be a fantastic candidate. I think getting him engaged with life is the problem but one which is easily fixed.</p>
<p>Work is an EC and quite frankly became the topic of many an admissions interview with all of my boys, even though they had sports and other extra curricular interests. That is why I mentioned having the son get a job in my other post. If it’s the summer after sophomore year in many states he can only work some limited hours anyway. That was the summer all of mine got their “first” jobs. Never hurts to have some work experience now and after graduation and shows that the kids do something besides hang out at home and shows they have some ability to engage with all kinds of people.</p>
<p>If your son has the standardized test scores that you seem to expect (GPA is irrelevant at UK unis, except for the handful that use the CommonApp) he could look at Edinburgh- or Oxford or Cambridge (note: you can only apply to one). For Oxbridge he would need 2200+ on the SAT and 3-5 scores of 5 on APs that are relevant to the course he wants to study. </p>
<p>What keepittoyourself said is worth repeating: the UK looks for strength in the subject that you apply to study- only. That is b/c you only study that subject- so, a math student at Oxford studies math and nothing but math (and it is a 3 year course). A natural sciences student at Cambridge studies their choice of science and math (3 years for a BA and 4 years for a BA and an MSc). </p>
<p>If he is willing to go aways away from home, he might have the time of his life: for kids with a real interest in their subject it is wonderful to find themselves in with a group of people who are fellow travelers. </p>
<p>In any case, imo the emphasis on ECs is overblown: it is another way to try and winnow a very crowded field. The admissions offices are overwhelmed with students with great numbers, so how do they choose? ECs give them another tool. But competitive students (and parents and schools) cop on to this, and it becomes an arms race: now it seems that if you need an art (preferably music) and a sport, and a leadership role to boot. That’s fine if it suits the kid, but I hate seeing kids being strong-armed into doing things solely to get them into a given university. </p>
<p>One of the other posters said that whatever else the kid shouldn’t be loafing around the house all day for 3 months. That, I agree with- it’s not good for anybody to do that. Whether it’s a job at a local shop, or a project that you need done (converting all the family photos to digital format?), or a project that he would enjoy (taking a summer class in something <em>interesting</em>, even if it is photography)- just something with a bit of structure. And definitely keeping some sort of time- we have an 11/11 rule, for the parts of the summer where they are between things (the ‘loafing’ periods)- they have to be in bed by 11 and up by 11. Even loafing should have its limits. </p>
<p>I agree that the UK option might be ideal for a kid like OP’s. Not just because of the emphasis on scores, but also because of the experience itself. I mentioned the idea to D, but it was outside of her comfort zone. But someone with a less conventional set-of-mind might find it jus the right amount of deviation from the norm of what his classmates are doing.</p>
<p>Also, re @collegemom3717’s suggestion about home-based “jobs.” I’m lucky in that I have my own research consulting company and I have the option of bringing people onto the payroll on a per-project basis. I’ve thought about setting up a small summer internship for high school (or maybe college) students. There might be some small businesses like mine who would be interested in bringing a smart kid onboard on a per-project basis. And D has found that tutoring can be both fun and lucrative. </p>
<p>I think it’s never too early to ask your son, “How are you going to contribute to your college community?” The more selective schools (Including the Southern schools) want to see students who are not just going to “take” but “give.” Rephrasing the conversation so that it’s not about 'getting in" but finding a place where he can grow and blossom is frankly a better way to approach the process.</p>
<p>Noblesse oblige is alive and well.</p>
<p>I would like to encourage the poster.
Instead of trying to fit your student to the college admissions process, try the reverse…find a college environment that fits him!
As an example I hold up my oldest nephew who just graduated Summa Cum Laude from the Colorado School of Mines with a degree in Engineering Physics. As a high school student he was exactly like your son, bright but shy and introverted. He even won his state’s Math award. My family knew he would not thrive in an environment like Harvey Mudd or MIT but instead picked a small, solid Engineering college that fit him to a T. At Mines he was able to benefit from close interactions with professors and did his college internship at M.D. Anderson. This spring he was accepted to graduate school at Oregon, Michigan, U. of Chicago, U of New Mexico but picked Texas A&M with a full ride and a fellowship that will pay him $19K a year!
So…find a school that fits your son!</p>