<p>Is anyone else from hs class of '09 doing some early stressing? :) </p>
<p>I've been looking at colleges since I started school this year, basically - it makes me feel prepared that all of my other friends are totally shrugging it off for now but that I have a fat Word file on my computer filled with lots of information on various colleges.</p>
<p>Good for you, being uber prepared in the process it one of the keys to success.</p>
<p>My D is in the same place. It now looks like she will be making the switch from MT to Opera though. We have a list of about 9 schools that she is considering and she'll be attending the Vocal Arts/ Opera and MT sessions at OCU this summer. Our mailbox is stuffed with recruiting materials every day, as is her e-mail since her grades and test results are quite high too. It looks like she'll pretty much have her pick of schools, but it really is amazing to see these schools pursuing kids this young.
What really surprised me the most was to see the process this year's seniors have gone through; even the ones that were the "stars" in their high schools are not getting a second look from the schools they applied to. They were poorly prepared by their Guidance Counselors and lulled by the praises of the school music teachers. They thought they could simply stroll into whatever school they wanted and welcomed with open arms and are stunned that this was not the case.
It is for that reason that I am pleased that my D has started this process early and is competing as well as performing and scoring over girls two years ahead of her. It's like "packaging" an athlete to catch the attention of the "powers that be" at the schools that matter.</p>
<p>Oh dear me.....I'll have one of these as well.......................<watch woman="" go="" screaming="" off="" into="" the="" night.............film="" at="" 11=""></watch></p>
<p>:eek:
MikksMom</p>
<p>"Our mailbox is stuffed with recruiting materials every day, as is her e-mail since her grades and test results are quite high too. It looks like she'll pretty much have her pick of schools"</p>
<p>Lulu's mom: your daughter sounds very talented and fortunate to have your guidance and support, but there are no guarantees...nothing matters as much as her audition at each of these schools, no matter how much interest the school and teachers have expressed in her, and there is no way of knowing what the competition will be. I hope it all goes very well, but please make her no promises about her options.....it does not work that way. Also, you should be aware that undergraduate voice students major in vocal performance, not in opera, and it covers the whole range of classical repertory, including the song literature in the major languages, oratorio, and appropriate opera materials. Good luck to you and your daughter. We look forward to hearing about her accomplishments. Lorelei</p>
<p>Please do not let this burst any bubbles, but my d was pursued by colleges also.....and she recieved rejections from some of those schools. This is an extremely competitive field...and it seems to only get more competitive. It does not stop once you make it into a program either....a lot of very hard work....but my d would not have it any other way. I have a child in the class of 2009 who is going into music performance. This time around we will be more prepared for the journey!! Always follow your dreams...........</p>
<p>That's what it is all about- competetition for everything. While some schools may call their programs "Vocal Performance", the students study opera scenes and arias and then the "official switch" to and opera major occurs somewhere around the junior year.
I think some of you are jumping the gun and misunderstanding- opera is the "long term" goal. not something that happens the first day as an undergraduate, but the curriculum CAN differ substantially from MT (I have found one school where both programs are identical until junior year, when the split off.
There are no guarantees, even for top performing athletes,and at least my D has her academics to fall back on (half of the school'd doing the "fishing" don't even have vocal programs, but rather, are interested in her for French or history, etc.!).</p>
<p>Lulu'smomma, from what you've said it certainly sounds as though your D is a very talented young lady, which is great! But I feel that I have to tell you that being 'pursued' by colleges in the way that you mention is not at all unusual. Once a kid is on the radar, either through testing or even something as innocuous as requesting literature from a college, they are automatically logged into the system and those lists are sold, over and over. :) I'm not doubting that she is talented but I would advise against feeling, or especially voicing to her, that she will "have her pick of schools". It's a recipe for disappointment. The competition, as you can see from your time here on CC, is formidable, and no one is guaranteed an acceptance, regardless of how talented or intelligent they are.</p>
<p>My comments are not directed at Lulu'sMama, but since she brought up an experience and this is a thread for tenth grade students and parents, who are often new to the whole college admissions process, particularly if this is their first child going through it......</p>
<p>The mention of a mailbox being stuffed with "recruiting materials" caught my eye. Almost ALL tenth through twelfth grade students receive hundreds of college catalogues, brochures and materials that are unsolicited. These are not considered "being recruited." By the way, I have not heard of MT programs that "recruit". Rather, colleges send out materials as PR to get students to become interested in applying to their colleges. They zero in on certain kinds of students who are right for their college and they want to attract these students to apply. They want to get a lot of applications as well (also makes a school appear more selective statistically). They are MARKETING their school. They find certain types of potential students where they wish to aim their marketing. Receiving materials from a college should NOT cause one to draw a conclusion that the school is "recruiting" them or would ACCEPT them. Not at all. </p>
<p>Colleges obtain lists of students. For instance, one very common way is when students sign up to take the PSAT in tenth and/or eleventh grades. If a student scores over a certain threshhold, colleges will buy a list of those names and send out their materials. Ask any parent of a student who has taken the PSATs and they can tell you that they amassed cartons and bags worth of college materials! I can vouch for my oldest daughter receiving piles per day! As a point of contrast, my younger child never took the PSATs. She was signed up to take them for Oct. of tenth grade and at the last minute she had to miss the test to visit a dying grandparent out of state. She then took the SATs in spring of tenth grade and completed all of her standardized testing as she applied to college in fall of her junior year as an early graduate. So, she never took the PSATs in eleventh grade because she was already done with her SATs in tenth. Well, lo and behold, we were "saved" from the piles of college brochures with D2! She wasn't on the PSAT lists that colleges obtain! It was great, LOL. At some point, she got a brochure from Harvard. Does that mean she'd be accepted to Harvard? No! :D </p>
<p>Colleges also obtain other lists.....such as those who win an NFAA Award or other similar things. They wish to market to those kids that fit the profile of what they are looking for in their student body. That's what the mailings are about. They are not "recruiting" your kid. It doesn't mean your kid would be accepted because they received these marketing materials. </p>
<p>Recruiting is a term that is used with athletic recruiting when a coach seeks out certain athletes and creates a list of who they want to accept and submits those names to admissions and these students are often accepted early. That is not the case with BFA admissions. </p>
<p>Receiving all these mailings, therefore, should not be construed as "having one's pick of schools." Please realize that these mailings are no indication of being accepted, only that the student fits the profile of students the school wishes to attract to apply. </p>
<p>Lastly, one comment for Lulu'sMama...you commented:</p>
<p>
[quote]
It is for that reason that I am pleased that my D has started this process early and is competing as well as performing and scoring over girls two years ahead of her.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It appears that you have a very talented daughter. It is good to assess a high schooler's talent and to look at various "benchmarks" as to how she fares locally in casting or competitions or adjudications, and so forth, and same with on a regional or national scale or in a summer intensive talent pool. These are helpful in getting some feel for where she may stand amongst many talented kids. However, nothing is a guarantee. Taking your example, I also could mention that as a tenth grader, my D won the state award for classical voice. She was cast as the leads in the high school musicals starting in 8th grade and in the high school dramas starting in seventh grade and wasn't even IN high school yet. She fared well in casting in a summer intensive and won an NFAA award and had been cast in NYC amongst kids who had Broadway credits, and so on and so forth. Yes, it helped to get some indication of how she fared in certain talent pools whether locally, in the state, or nationally. And yes, she was up against much older kids. EVEN STILL, all it indicated to us was that she was in the ballpark and an appropriate applicant for a BFA program and had a viable chance. BUT in NO way did we feel ANY certainty that she'd be admitted to certain schools. We thought she had a chance like MANY MANY others and hoped that at least one came through and having more than one would surely be nice. We thought she had a decent shot at getting into at least one and so her list was appropriate. While indeed she ended up with many fine options including a first choice, we never ever expected it. We went in realistically and knew it was VERY chancy even if she had what we thought it takes. You can have the talent and the academics and still be denied at many schools. Usually if you have what it takes, you will get in SOME where. But I would never in my wildest dreams have gone into it thinking "she'll have her pick of schools." That isn't because I wasn't confident in her abilities, but because we went into it fully aware of the very long odds due to low admit rates, even IF qualified. Schools or programs that accept anywhere between 2-10% of applicants, see more than 10% that have what it takes to get in. Therefore, they have to deny some very talented and qualified students. There are a LOT, LOT, LOT of talented kids out there across the country. It is one thing to stand out in your region but there are MANY who do and there are a lot of communities and regions out there! :D</p>
<p>EDIT: oops, cross posted with AlwaysAMom :)</p>
<p>HollyLove
My D will also be class of 09 we think, graduating early. We/she has done some looking at colleges although is less inclined to catalogue and organize information - that's my style, not hers.
I think the biggest benefit for my D has been seeing other kids ahead of her go through the process. She has the luck of being in a PA school that is 4-12, so has had several years of seniors ahead of her to learn from. (Unfortunately no guidance from counselors of any intelligent input even for seniors and certainly not for younger kids). If you know kids older than you who are planning the MT route, try talking with them.
As for being accepted, we have frequently been surprised at where different kids do and do not get accepted, and sometimes just surpirsed completely that some do get accepted anywhere and others no where. To some degree it does appear to be a ****shoot. I think D looks at this as generally re-assuring, since kids she has been in productions with and classes with since she was young are finding places. She is not over confident but it has helped her (and me, the obsessive planner) to keep balance in her life and enjoy what she is doing now instead of making everything about "getting into college."</p>
<p>im in the class of 2009 and im def worried about colleges esp. ivy leagues. i always wanted to go to Harvard and still do. However, i think the competition is way too high and i wont make it. Any suggestions?</p>
<p>I should not have used the term "pursued"...d was not pursued at all!!!!! I will be the first to say that. But, just wanted to say that our mailbox was stuffed with colleges sending info, and even some phone calls saying "come and visit"....but no, never a "we want you in our mt program"!!! I do not believe that happens in this field.......
My d who is in 10th grade is now being flooded with material from ivy to state schools. It is because of her PSAT tests. They must ask what field you are interested in now because some of the material actually specifies music. The only thing she does is to inform the schools that she may be interested in for further information and thanks them for the coorespondense....we call it a little early smoozing!! ;)<br>
Last year taught us a HUGE lesson. I had been lurking this forum for YEARS then started posting right around d's senior year. This forum and it's wonderful people with sooooo much information, gave us so much insight, but I do not think you are ever prepared for what hits you when this all begins! We now know-our young musician is a flautist. We once again we are entering a ridiculously competitve field, but at least we do have a heads up....thanks to all of the great "adivisors" on this forum!! Hang in there...and please know that everything that Soozievt posted is all so very true......and be prepared!!! Have realistic backups and safety nets....best to all of you just joining....it will be our turn (again?) soon.</p>
<p>First, please hold off the judgements. This is my second youngster going through the process, so I am familiar with the routine (the first got perfect scores on his ACT's) but in my D's case, she has been fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to have people that represent certain schools hear her- just good timing and a lot of luck! Also, she has a phenominal teacher (Yale and Eastman educated) and is being brought along well. Because her school does not have a strong theatre program she has been auditioning and performing in the community instead and landing leads in summer programs and the school shows she does do. As I said, she has been fortunate to possess the whole package that most colleges want, but has other things to fall back on (she is also an excellent flutist!). Her GPA is almost perfect and she has the usual Honors and National Young Leaders reccomendations. She is a year young anyway, but the major help to her has been the teacher-pupil relationship with her voice teacher- it just "clicked" and that has helpful beyond anything else. WHAT, and ALL that I was trying to get across is that the colleges start chasing these promising kids earlierand earlier (they hold "college" seminars in my youngest's Middle School! MAJOR PRESSURE THERE!) and don't give up easily! I wasn't trying to say that she was better than your daughter or son but was agreeing that the whole rigamarole seems to be beginning at younger ages every year! I felt attacked by some of the replies and would appreciate it if we could just confine things to generalities- all I could state was what I am seeing in this part of the country and was curious to see if it was now a wide-spread process.
What does concern me is the fact that there are people who don't consider the "entire picture". It's NOT just the audition, or the grades, or the extra-curriculars, but rather a combination of all and sometimes the student just may not be a good "fit" for a particular program or maybe one of the adjudicators had a bad night's sleep! What has been amazing to see this year is the selection process at work and how if differed from place to place. The Valedectorian of this year's class at her prep school ( she and my D took/take all Honors and AP courses) is a tremendous comedic actress and has a lovely voice, but was accepted at only ONE school for just straight acting (NYU) and CMU for English. Another boy from a Performing Arts HS with a gorgeous Bass voice and a load of performing experience at school and in the community), but who goofed off his first 2 years in HS finds himself only accepted to SUNY Purchase and Fredonia for straight voice and not the MT he desired. Both of these kids pulled off top auditions at each try, but it other factors came into play. End of my discourse..Enjoy what's left if your weekend all!</p>
<p>"It's NOT just the audition, or the grades, or the extra-curriculars, but rather a combination of all and sometimes the student just may not be a good 'fit' for a particular program" </p>
<p>I would agree with this. I think kids/parents can create a package with all the parts seemingly being perfect (resume/audition/gpa/scores) but the whole still may not be right for a program for reasons that can't necessarily be assessed objectively. I also believe that missing one or two of those "perfect" parts doesn't necessarily put a student at a disadvantage over someone who has it "all." I have seen kids without the best academics get into great programs...and thrive. Intangibles are important...and each school is different, each year is different.</p>
<p>Exactly, Babar. And while I'm thinking of it, it also works the same way with the schools that have mandatory cuts. How in the world do they come right out and say that "Half of the class will be cut after the freshman year"- it should be impossible to acertain in advance that exactly half would not meet the standards every year- one year, it could be 20 and the next 2, yet the practice persists in many schools.
I guess if we wanted an exact science we'd steer our kids towards track or ski racing, huh?!!</p>
<p>doctorjohn, an extraordinarily generous and intelligent resource for us all, explains the cut system (why it exists and why it really is impossible to fairly adminster it) at
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/musicaltheatercolleges/cutpolicy.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.geocities.com/musicaltheatercolleges/cutpolicy.html</a>
It's too late, but track or ski racing might have been easier paths, for sure!!!</p>
<p>I totally agree that they are getting to these kids earlier and earlier. No wonder these kids are stressing out at a younger age!! They know it will be so very competitive to get into the program with the degree that they want.</p>
<p>notfromme, in my area we've been hearing something to the extent of "if you fail this, then you will fail next year, then you will fail the year after that, THEN YOU'LL NEVER GET INTO COLLEGE" since about the...sixth or seventh grade, haha.</p>
<p>At the beggining of the school year I was stressing about Colleges too, but later I sort of got the picture and said...i have two more years and I have take care of my ambitions. I got into a music academy and into a theatre program outside of school and that should be good extra curricular activities for the universities. Something I am stressing is the auditions. If a college doesn't requiere an audition does that mean it is less serious or something? :D:D:D:D:D:D</p>
<p>From what I have seen and others may disagree- the programs that do not require and audition are more likely to be BFA degrees, and no, they are not as intense as the programs that do insist upon an audition.
If my D was in your spot, I would urge her to diversify the extra-currlicular activities more- not all theatre or at any rate, performance based. If you go to a performing arts hs, that may or may not be a help, as the one in nearest us is not well thought of -academically- at all; test scores are low and retention rates for those that manage to get into any college are extremely poor. The colleges have that information at their disposal and know one from the other.</p>