High School Diploma Not Required?

Parents Forum
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<p>The question came up in a recent thread elsewhere on CC about whether a particular college required a high school diploma to enroll there. I had seen that college's common data set information, and knew the answer was no. That answer surprised other participants in the thread. I searched for old CC threads about high school diplomas, and found few threads that mention schools that require high school diplomas (or the equivalent) of all admittees. Any time I have browsed common data set information, I have always found a no answer to this question. </p>

<p>Can you link to any college's statement, among the kind of top colleges most CC families are anxious about, that that college requires a high school diploma for admission? What are some of the "equivalent" documents an applicant could successfully show to such a college? Do you know of instances of applicants without high school diplomas who were admitted to selective colleges? Maybe this thread can be linked to in the future as a resource thread for young people curious about this issue.</p>

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<p>tokenadult:</p>

<p>Among the colleges that we considered, only Brown seems to actually require a high school diploma. The best description of what would be required of a homeschooled student is on the Stanford website.</p>

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<p>A friend who also counsels students was discussing this with me earlier today and showed me an inquiry made to the NYU admissions office on the issue. Here's a link to the question and reply, and yes, they do require a diploma or equivalent (GED).</p>

<p><a href="http://nyu.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/4934033161/m/402106253/r/402106253#402106253%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://nyu.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/4934033161/m/402106253/r/402106253#402106253&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>the schools in New York are a special case. Lobbyists for a company that sells oversight services to homeschoolers successfully pushed the legislature to pass laws basically requiring their services (which leads to a diploma). I know of homeshcoolers from New York who are not applying to any instate schools because of this.</p>

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<p>texas, I don't think it's as simple as that. From what I've read, the legislation that was passed was an attempt to bring standards for homeschooled kids into line with what was required by students in NY highschools when they had to write the Regents.</p>

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<p>My kid applied to college (all privates) in what would have been 10th grade. Only the one in New York State required a diploma (and even they were wavering, as she had 66 college credits. Had she needed a diploma, I would have made her one on the computer.</p>

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<p>I agree with Alwaysamom's statement
The minimum requirements for a H.S. diploma in NYS requires passing the following regents exams. </p>

<p>English
Math
Global Studies
American history
Science</p>

<p>The SUNY and CUNY schools does take the regents exams in consideration for admission of in-state students</p>

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<p>I'm curious about this too. My son is currently in 12th grade in a school for gifted. He will have 55+ credits by the time June rolls around. He will have met ALL requirements for a diploma in our state and then some. However, it has come to light that the gifted school (he attended for 11 & 12) might not be able to grant him a diploma because he is short credits AT THAT SCHOOL only. He does want the diploma and we are in a bind.</p>

<p>If it were up to me I would print a diploma on the computer as mini suggests above. KNowing what I have shared above, can someone answer these questions?</p>

<p>Son applied to 5 schools, 1 rolling (yes), 1 ea (yes) and 3 reg dec. (won't know until April). Of the 2 he knows of he has received generous scholarships and/or school and/or federal aid. If he does not have a diploma come August...does the college know this? Do you forfeit scholarships? I know you can still get fed aid, but what about school aid? We are afraid to ask the 5 schools involved in case it would hurt his chances of getting in or getting something taken away. Just HOW does the college know if a child has indeed graduated? Do they ask for a copy of the diploma? </p>

<p>I'm very happy someone brought this up. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I knew someone who was admitted to Columbia University after skipping his senior year of high school to travel around the country by himself. ( He was #1 in a very competitive high school during his first three years with very high SATs.) He did take the GED.</p>

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<p>The law in NY actually did NOT require a high school diploma or GED for ADMISSION to NYS colleges. </p>

<p>However, NY law DID require that candidates for a college degree obtain a high school diploma (or equivalent, i.e., a GED) BEFORE the college could issue a college degree.</p>

<p>This led to some fairly silly situations, e.g., a college senior at NYU being told a few months before his scheduled COLLEGE graduation that the college could not issue his college diploma until he got a high school diploma or equivalent. </p>

<p>Never mind that the young man in question had done a terriific job on all his college courses, was on track with his college coursework to get his B.S in a few more months., and had already been admitted to several grad schools, NYS regulations at that time did not allow NYU to issue his college degree until he had a high school diploma (or equivalent.)</p>

<p>NYU is a private university, of course, but they were theoretically at risk for losing their charter if they granted a college degree to a student who had not already obtained a high school degree.</p>

<p>Now, in practice, this is pretty much a paperwork formality, because the State Education Department will issue a GED to anyone who has completed 24 credit hours of college work distributed across a cross-section of subjects and most students will automatically accumulate this distribution on the way to their college degree anyway.</p>

<p>Even so, homeschoolers and some other nontraditional students who had been admitted without a GED years earlier and who had done fine in their college coursework, thought it was pretty silly to have to apply for a GED based on college coursework at the last minute before their college graduations purely to satisfy this silly requirement. </p>

<p>It's essentially a certain amount of paper shuffling, for most students, not really any extra college credits required over and above those required for the college degree anyway. But it is an annoyance, given the slow-moving NYS bureaucracy. And some objected to the "stigma" associated with a GED.</p>

<p>As a result, last September the NYS Board of Regents passed a new proposal which allows homeschoolers (and other nontraditional students, including those who just decide to skip their senior year of high school and go directly to college without getting a high school diploma) a way to get a college degree without technically having to get a GED.</p>

<p>One of those options is popularly referred to as the "non-GED GED." Basically the student completes the 24-hours of college coursework that would have been required for a GED but doesn't officially apply for a GED.</p>

<p>Other options include taking the Regents Exams (or their NYS-approved bypass equivalents, which are APs and/or SAT II's in the same fields covered by Regents, a little known alternative which may be more useful than the Regents, because they are nationally recognized.)</p>

<p>Here is the relevant regulation adopted last September:
<a href="http://www.regents.nysed.gov/2004Meetings/September2004/0904heppca2.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.regents.nysed.gov/2004Meetings/September2004/0904heppca2.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It should be noted that NYS still refuses to allow homeschool parents to issue "diplomas," even if their children pass all the Regents. They can issue something called a "Certificate of completion of secondary studies," or some-such but they are not entitled to call it a diploma, no matter how many hoops their children jumped through.</p>

<p>So it goes...but the fact is, a diploma (or GED) is not and never has been necessary to get IN to a NY college. Until the Sept 2004 reg change, it was necessary in order to get OUT of the college with a degree, but you never needed one to get IN, as far as the state regs were concerned.</p>

<p>(Of course, individual colleges in NY and anywhere else were free to impose their own requirements, but there was no statewide requirement for a diploma or GED in order to get in.)</p>

<p>All clear as mud, right?</p>

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<p>I appreciate the detailed explanation of the situation in New York, which definitely has some of most cockamamie education regulations in the country, especially pertaining to homeschooling.</p>

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<p>Token ~ are you a home-schooling parent?</p>

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<p>Many NY colleges require a diploma or GED just because they do not want to get into the nonsense that Homeschoolmom actually was able to make crystal clear. You are much needed in the field of technical writing, HSM. Even at Juilliard, where they do not want your highschool transcript or SATs, or any test scores, for that matter, wants either certification from your highschool that you have graduated, or a GED. Now, I suppose some sort of individual appeal could be made and granted, but that was what was on the requirement sheet that my son got from them. A young lady I know who auditioned there a few years ago, and is homeschooled, asked if the "diploma" or certificate of completion which is issued by Thomas Aquinas College through their homeschooling progam, would suffice. She was told "no".</p>

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<p>If you have submitted quarterly reports to the district the Superintendant might be willing to give you a letter of completion which some schools like. The letter must contain language which can be found on the Home school Legal Defense website. Also see this link.
<a href="http://www.hslda.org/courtreport/v19n2/v19n202.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hslda.org/courtreport/v19n2/v19n202.asp&lt;/a>
I have found that the more selective schools could care less as long as you have taken SAT's.</p>

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<p>Yes, I homeschool, and I'm very clear about how to get my son into all of the colleges he is most interested in--which are mostly colleges that explicitly say that they don't require high school diplomas. My interest in this issue goes back to my high school days in the 1970s, when I had several very bright classmates who dropped out of high school because they found it so boring, but who still got college degrees in various demanding subjects. I got my high school diploma, but I wish I hadn't wasted my time in the high school I was stuck in but instead went to college early, which is a chance now readily available to my children because of subsequent law changes here.</p>

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<p>mominin, where does your son go to school? My son is in a simliar program and we never considered that possibility.</p>

<p>BTW, I've only skimmed some of the posts, but I'm surprised I don't see any reference to students to apply for early admission, essentially entering college before they graduate from high school. I assume they're not required by definition to have a high school diploma.</p>

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<p>I have a teacher whose daughter graduated from high school at age 15. She has since earned a BS, an MS, an MD, and two PhD's. All of this, however, was achieved without receiving an official high school diploma. That teacher says what she did is sort of like dropping out, but not. In fact, she dropped up.</p>

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<p>I believe Bookworm's S went to Caltech without yet having a hs diploma. It nearly happened to one of my S's schoolmates. She applied to Harvard as a junior. She had not done all the highschool paperwork and may have been short a course. The school at first refused to consider letting her graduate but caved in when she was admitted to Harvard. My S, benefitting from her precedent, will graduate early but with diploma.</p>

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<p>This is all very helpful. In fact, after I posted last night I did find out from a reputable source that many colleges don't ask for final grades, let alone a "copy" of a diploma. I am no longer as concerned as I was as I found out many kids are actually in college before receiving a high school diploma and some never receive one.</p>

<p>STrick (please no offense!) but I am very leary of giving out where my son goes to school as I'm concerned about those that lurk, lol. I hope you understand. I will say he is at a public school for gifted kids established by our state's government as a way to meet the needs of highly gifted high schoolers. I believe there are about 20 such schools in as many states that have these places set up.</p>

<p>Strick11, also the part you mention about early action? That too was mentioned to me by the same person. In a sense, the colleges are looking at many factors (during early action as well) grades, etc. and the school <em>may</em> have to furnish a midterm report and even final grades but he knew of no circumstances where they asked "let us see a copy of that hs diploma'. Oh, btw, I am not in New York but those posts are helpful as well.</p>

<p>It's a shame that in a small school like my son's that the counselors could not have kept better tabs on his credits, but it happened. My son takes part of the blame and the school is going to be flexible about ways for him to make up the deficit. Worse case scenerio, he will simply start college in fall without a diploma.</p>

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<p>Morgantruce, whom I do miss from these boards had some great advice for homeschoolers as he successfully homeschooled and navigated the selective college maze thereafter. May want to do some searches in the archives for his very worthwhile posts.</p>