High School Parents/Students - Class of 2007

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>After reading this thread, I feel so much better.....I have been the one gently reminding (although she may say nagging) her to please finish the last 2 applications....and one is the UMich one. (the other is Westminster who don't have online apps!)UMich's EXTENSIVE rep list is a bear...and to top it all off, the hard drive on the family computer died last weekend and guess where her 'extended' resume with all the detailed performance info resided? yep! so....we are waiting to hear if the magicians who recover data (for a steep price) are able to recover any of her info... please let it be so....</p>

<p>I guess we are ahead of the game with 7 of 9 in place. Between her shows and mine and the soon to be upcoming auditions, I guess we'll manage to get this done. </p>

<p>The audition process starts in late October and we have 5 on the docket before Christmas....phew......I'm tired too!!</p>

<p>Thanks CC for making it all seem ok...</p>

<p>MikksMom</p>

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<p>Sarahsmom,</p>

<p>Hi and welcome to the forum. You are definitely not alone...I admit it...I'm stressed too! My daughter has 3 more applications to complete and doesn't have too much time coming up in which to do it! She is also the lead in her school play, taking AP's, and trying to keep up with the lessons, clubs and church group. Her first audition is Oct 27th and she is still deciding which monologue to use! This school is actually one near the top of her list so I don't know that I should have scheduled this audition first for her, but I did. Now I have those nightmares of her not getting in there and it being my fault for scheduling that audition first!</p>

<p>I was just telling a good friend how crazy I was going because besides the huge time commitment with this, I have a husband who travels and is never home, a younger son involved in sports and a younger daughter who is a competitive cheerleader and her travelling season is just beginning. I don't think I will be able to come up for air until around March or so.....Ahhhhh! You would think someone who sleeps about 5 hours a night would have time for it all, but I still don't!</p>

<p>I have tried not to push, but to gently nudge her to finish the applications. I have tried to keep the files organized and all the secretarial upkeep. But you are absolutely right...that is still incredibly time consuming! They will get it done...they really will. </p>

<p>Right now I'm a little more annoyed at her teacher who is doing her recommendations. My d gave her a packet over 6 weeks ago (completely organized of course) of all the recommendation forms etc. The teacher has yet to do it and told my daughter today she is doing them in alphabetical order. Needless to say we are at the end of the alphabet and there are kids that just gave her their recommendation forms last week who have already gotten them back! How bizarre is that????? My daughter LOVES this teacher and she is always so wonderful to my daughter and asked us if she could wright her recommendation!!! I just don't get it! So I am trying to take a deep breath and realize that even though it may be the last piece of the application in....I know she will have it in on time (but so much for getting things in early!)</p>

<p>Maybe we will meet along the audition path. Please know that you are definitely not alone...there are tons of us out there who feel just like you. Good luck to your daughter. I am sure that all will turn out wonderfully!</p>

<p>kaysmom</p>

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<p>oops...write not wright! That's why I am not the one proofreading my d's essays!</p>

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<p>I'm glad you current seniors and parents are supporting one another. It is crazy for all of you but it IS doable, even if it seems like it won't be. You guys do seem to have it under control. Mikksmom, I pray your computer retrieval works. I know the kick in the gut of that experience. My older daughter had her entire computer wiped out around finals time last year (soph year) in college. The prognosis was NOT good. After an expense (it is one of those expenses like a car breaking down that you HAVE to do) and the many days of a computer place running data retrieval, a lot was retrieved...even her photos. She now owns an external hard drive. Never again!! So, there IS hope for you.....I just spoke with a friend who is a college student who just had this happen as well and she bought her own data retrieval program and miraculously got a lot back as well. So fingers crossed for you (from me, the techno challenged mom). </p>

<p>Kaysmom, I give you a LOT of credit handling this process and running around as you have three kids who are all active and a husband who is out of town often. You'll manage somehow. </p>

<p>Seven of my D's 8 college auditions were over a 7 week period and I found myself traveling every weekend basically all winter. If I wasn't on a trip to her auditions, I was on a trip to my other D's collegiate ski races, all mixed in throughout that time period. I never knew if I was coming or going. After the last audition, I thought, hooray....who knows what the outcome will be (I think at that point, she as in at one already), but at least the process we had been going at for so long was basically over (other than the results). I left two days later to fly out west to see my older D in National Championships for her college sport. Unfortunately, for my younger D, just seven days after the final audition, we were not on "easy street" and she was in a near death type car accident and landed in intensive care, eventual surgery, and spent a block of time in the hospital and eventually in a hospital bed in our house and was out of everything for the remainder of her last year of HS. All those special things like shows and dance performances, nada. Thankfully, in the hospital, she was opening acceptances. So, while I can commisserate with the stress, anxiety, and overwhelming process that is college admissions and college auditions, it ain't nothing compared to what came after for us. So, things could be worse ladies! </p>

<p>I HOPE ALL of you and your kids, come March/April, are in a happy mood, with some possibilities for your kids, and then come next fall, they truly most likely will end up some place where they will thrive, flourish, and enjoy themselves. There really IS something to look forward to here.....trust me.</p>

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<p>Mikksmom; one thing we learned a year or so ago is, when you're working on something very important in a Word document, at the end of each work session, save a copy of it and send it to yourself in an e-mail. That way, if your computer crashes, you can still access your most recent version via e-mail from a working computer. Also, I had a brief discussion with the U Mich rep at the Chicago college fair last week on Northwestern's campus, and she assured me the repertoire list is only for solo work your child has studied/done. I was told they are not interested in choral/choir pieces unless the applicant had at least a modest solo in it. Hope this helps in the 'reconstructing'. </p>

<p>Kaysmom: you bring up an excellent point, despite your frustrating experience. One of the first things I did was to print out all the teacher recommendation forms, school report forms, mid-year report forms for each application. Luckily seven of eleven schools for my daughter used the commom application. Before she became even close to finishing any applications, she took these forms in to her counselor and teachers whom she was asking for a recommendation from. The worse that could happen is her teacher recs/school forms would arrive before her application (and if they were misplaced at the college, it's fairly easy to ask the teachers to send a duplicate copy). One of her teachers has a history of needing to be asked many, many times if he completed the form, and then says he can't find it; she only needed one rec from him (her choir teacher), so when I put the materials together for him and her drama teacher, I included a note that said I could not schedule an audition with these schools without a completed application - if they were unable to complete this recommendation by such-and-such date, please let us know so we could make other arrangements. This teacher who procrastinates, then loses everything, had her rec ready three hours after she gave it to him, and was honest, saying if he hadn't done it then, he probably would have not gotten around to it. I also was sure to include an addressed envelope to the school the rec needed to go to, although he gave the unsealed envelope with the rec back to her to mail, so she was able to read it.</p>

<p>I think there's a definite advantage to tackling the teacher recs/school forms early on in the application process. The longer you wait, the more these requests will be stacked up behind other requests. In the meantime, your child can be working on their portion of the application. </p>

<p>Two of my daughters schools did not have supplements to the common application, so there were two that were completely done! She's slowly finishing up supplements as well as working on the non-common application applications.</p>

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<p>Kaysmom, I frankly think it is wrong of that teacher to complete the recs in alphabetical order. They should be done in the order in which they were received (and then with some consideration for particular due dates, if possible). Kids who were on the ball to get these in early (like your D) should be done before kids who gave them in at the last minute. Yes, students should submit the forms and requests in early September. Still, I don't think that teacher is being fair. As well, six weeks is not so reasonable. I realize it is a LOT for them to do. They should only take on a certain number of students for whom they can handle writing recs and about whom they feel they can write a very good recommendation. My kids gave these organized packages to each rec writer with a date to return them by....it was about a month later....THAT is reasonable. Yes, I have also seen it all, however. We all have stories, I'm sure. I have a few myself. Also, not every teacher, no matter how much they loved your child, is necessarily good at writing a rec. Some put a lot into it and some do not or are incapable of writing an effective rec.</p>

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<p>Soozie and Teriwtt,</p>

<p>I am trying not to "freak out" about the recommendation thing, but it is really frustrating. It puts my d in the position to have to beg for it which is really lousy. The rec is from an english teacher who is a wonderful writer. I have confidence if she gets the thing done it will be great, but I also think it's unfair to take other kids first who just turned them in. That makes NO sense to me. Then again...I am not the one writing it. She had told me this summer that she only needed 2 weeks notice to get her recommendations done...now it's been 6. The girl who got her recs back today begins with the last inital G. My daughter has a long way to go before she's on the T's! </p>

<p>I told my d to go to her tommorow and ask her respectfully when she thought the recs may be completed because she is doing some EA schools. Maybe that will help or the next option will be to ask for the packet back and scramble to get another teacher "who by now already has a line of kids to do" to complete it. So much for super organization!!!!!</p>

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<p>kaysmom,</p>

<pre><code>You sound frustrated and I would be too. I think that I would leave this teacher a short, sweet phone or email message explaining your D's situation. She probably has no idea what the process is like for MT. (It's not this bad for other majors. My other daughter is a Frosh studying Computer Eng.) If you don't get any response, maybe you should pick another teacher! Hang in there. My husband is in Japan right now and my son is a sports freak. We'll get through it!
</code></pre>

<p>Sarahsmom</p>

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<p>Question: My daughter's very good friend is also trying for MT. She keeps asking my daughter about what songs/monologues she's using and when her auditions are. My D does not think it's any big deal to share this info., but I know that the selection process took months. She worked with her voice and acting coaches on the selections. I feel kind of protective. Am I over reacting?</p>

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<p>Welcome Sarahsmom! I'm not too stressed at this point but it is daunting to realize that between my kids auditions, plays and meets there is no free weekend between November and May! I do understand your gut reaction to your daughter, Sarahsmom and her friend but I try to remember that this is really about each kid finding the best place for them so it's not really about competing against anyone. The more support we can offer each other and our kids can give each other the better this process will be.
Hope to see you all out there sometime this crazy year!</p>

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<p>Sarahsmom, I think sharing audition material amongst TRUE good friends is not like sharing it on the internet with lots of kids applying, etc. </p>

<p>Applying for BFA in MT Programs is very rare in our community. Hardly anyone has ever done so. It happened to be that in my D's year, she and one very good friend were doing so. She also had some other friends who were not from our HS but from our state whom she knew through theater, who were also applying. Lastly, she had MANY very close friends in other states who were applying to the same BFA programs (she is bonded to these kids through years of theater camp). They shared all this stuff. They supported one another a lot. There was no reason to not share materials as the choices are so individualized. In fact, my D is known to be someone who SUGGESTS material to others. I recall her voice teacher's letter of recommendation mentioning that my D was so familiar with the MT repertoire/genre, that she was the one who often suggested music for others. She just has always been a "historian" (not sure that is the right word) with musical theater. So, these friends all shared such choices and asked for one another's opinions. Further, one of the best parts of the college audition trips was that my D was able in a few instances, to see her out of state theater friends at the auditions and they supported one another all day at the audition event, making it less stressful and more enjoyable. My D never saw it as competing against her friends. She wanted them all to get in. She has a network of friends now at all these BFA programs and is still so close to them. </p>

<p>As far as the local girl from our HS, she only applied to 2 colleges....NYU/Tisch (ED) and Emerson. She got denied at Tisch but accepted/attending Emerson. Just to show how these things can go, my D got into Tisch/attending, but was denied the BFA at Emerson (but was admitted to the college). Things worked out for both girls. I recall my D suggesting one of the songs this girl sang. </p>

<p>It turns out a very good theater friend over the years from our state chose to attend the same BFA program as my D and so they decided to be roomies and are now best college friends. </p>

<p>I think if your D's best friend is just that, they will help each other through this, cheer one another on, share suggestions for materials, and all will be fine. The "competition" to get in goes way beyond just two kids anyway. They should just hope that each one of them lands some place where they will be happy. They really are not competing against one another here. I also can't imagine one using the other's materials because these choices should be highly individualized for each person's skill set, type, etc. I suggest they make suggestions for one another.</p>

<p>PS, while not quite the same because both parties are not up for the same things....this summer, my D (age 17, the one who is in a BFA program) had a job out of state at a small Equity theater and was put up in a house living with Equity actors. The lead in her show was a woman age approx. 31, who has a MFA. All summer, my D was suggesting and finding MT repertoire songs for this woman to use in auditions. She has a knack for it. The woman loved it. My D just found out (by seeing it in the NYTimes) that her housemate is cast in a new off Broadway play with Blythe Danner and she just has to go see her (maybe meet Blythe??). So, sharing material, even AFTER BFA admissions, is something many actors do.</p>

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<p>Susan, I agree with you; it isn't appropriate for a teacher to use this system of getting recs done; it's not realistic, nor fair. The problem is, you are at their mercy. </p>

<p>There are certain things only my daughter will do in this audition/application process, but there are things I (and all of you) will do to facilitate this - this is why we often refer to ourselves as our child's secretary. Depending on the child, I see no problem being the one to facilitate this process of making sure school related requirements are done in a timely manner. I say depending on the child, because some students do not want you to have ANY contact with their teachers ("how embarassing"). But with everything they have going on in their lives amidst trying to get the parts of the application only they can get done, most students won't argue this contact if it takes one more item off of their to do list. </p>

<p>Whether or not the teacher/counselor has a reputation for being timely or not, I send e-mails alerting them of any new request that might be coming their way to all of them out of courtesy. When I registered them on-line for U Michigan recs (they are done electronically), I e-mailed them to let them know I had done this, so they wouldn't be surprised when they received a notice from U Michigan that this was coming their way. When we added another school to my daughters list, I e-mailed them. The same could be done with phone calls, or even leaving messages on their voice mail. It shows to them you appreciate all the time they put into helping students out, by keeping them informed, and trying to make it as painless as possible for them. But believe me, being a "W" at the end of the alphabet, my sympathy is with you.</p>

<p>To be fair to them (as another poster said, most teachers do not realize the complexitites and added requirements for MT majors), they probably do not know what you and your student are trying to accomplish in order to meet college requirements. This is why I think a note or message informing them of your deadlines is needed, but along with the caveat that if they cannot meet those deadlines (no matter what the reason - even if it's something as silly as alphabetical ordering), to please let you know so you can make other arrangements (for us, it was having a back-up plan to ask another teacher, although it wouldn't be my daughter's first or second choice). Then if that date comes and goes, and they have not completed the form, move on to your other arrangements, and let go of it. If they then later complete it and hand it to you, let them know you don't need it anymore; they are the ones that put themselves in the spot of spending time on something they didn't have to do, then.</p>

<p>All this is well said and done dependent on many factors; if this is a teacher your student is currently in class with, or will be having this year, you have to be concerned about whether this will affect their future relationship if you stir the pot. That's a tricky call to make. It's too bad this teacher is such an exemplary resource for recs, because they can be hard to find. Kaysmom, you need to put the ball in the teacher's court, with your stipulations, and be ready to move on if they refuse to hit it back. You can't get so stressed out so early in this process over something you really don't have that much control over. There are so many things you do have control over that will stress you out, to let this get to you. Things happen in the life of a teacher (perhaps personal things, perhaps professional) that might make what they promised earlier in the summer, now impossible. If this teacher has a reputation for being timely and dependable in the past, and now is behaving otherwise, I would suspect something is going on that you don't know about. Your choosing to move on and pick another teacher might be a huge relief off of her plate. If you choose to move on, I would write a generic letter (to give to anyone who might need to provide information to colleges) explaining the MT audition/application process and competitiveness of getting into a program. Look at it as an education piece you are providing others, too.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>Teri, I agree with all that you wrote and ways of handling it. A student must check back in with each rec writer as the deadlines which you hopefully gave them near. Sometimes that works and sometimes the person is not going to come through and you have to put another rec plan in motion. </p>

<p>In my post, I was mostly offering an opinion about a teacher who does the recs alphabetically rather than in the order in which the students passed them in, and in accordance with the deadlines provided. I think that is wrong.</p>

<p>I didn't even begin to get into and am not going to get into all this specifically here, but there are things both my own kids did, as well as my clients to solicit effective recommendations. Lots of what you wrote about providing them with information and deadlines and all that is a part of what I have them do. I just have not described how to go about all these specific tasks here. They certainly do give them a wealth of information to help them write an effective rec. </p>

<p>But in Kaysmom's D's instance, I think the teacher's way of going about it is not right. But like I said, I have stories I could share from our experiences as well. Some teachers even forget. That's why checking back in is critical, in a timely way. Some put no effort into it and crank out a generic letter and paste different names into the letter and oops, they left in another girl's name in the letter....shows how individualized it was! Ha! This after the student provided a comprehensive packet of information as to highlighting many things about herself to help her write it (and had the teacher for FIVE years). Others got the recs back in two days with incredible detail and written well. Others said they would do it, send everything along, never heard a word back (long distance). Anyway, a student owns this process and must be proactive, providing the requisite information (and more) to each rec writer, checking back in a timely way, and then making a decision to change course, if necessary, and ask someone else. But everything you wrote is important, I agree.</p>

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<p>Kaysmom --</p>

<p>One way I have handled the problem in the past is to e-mail the registrar, or whoever handles the transcript/school report portion, and gently remind her/him of the dates the applications must be finalized (here, I would actually push the date up a week or two from the real date) and why that is the deadline (EA, ED, rolling, audition sheduling requirement, etc.). Then I copy the teachers/letter writers on the same e-mail. That way, everyone is on the same page with the dates.</p>

<p>Since it is hard to get a "tone of voice" from an e-mail, I always try to be super-polite and very grateful for everything they are doing to help with the application process, etc.</p>

<p>You can then follow this up with a phone call or e-mail to the teachers to see if there is "anything more they need from you to help them in this really complicated process."</p>

<p>Anyway, just a thought ...</p>

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<p>I have read that there is nothing wrong with asking a teacher if you can have a copy of the recommendation that they write. This seems like good advice to me, as you can then check that things are in order. Several friends whose kids have already gone through this (we have not, as my D is only a hs junior) tell me that some teachers and counselors actually offered their kids a copy.
Soozie, any thoughts on this? Is that unusual, and do you see anything wrong with a student politely asking if they can have a copy?</p>

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<p>Hi Evasmom and Soozie,<br>
I'm sure that you are both right. These two get together and spend hours listening to MT music, watching movies of MT and looking through monologues, I think I'm just feeling frustrated because I'm out sick! Thanks!</p>

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<p>Thanks to all of you for your advice! This morning I talked to my father (he is head of Guidance at a high school in NJ and is extremely familiar with the recommendation process after having written thousands over the years). His response was the same as what you are saying. I sent my d's teacher a very nice e-mail this morning and just got home to an equally nice response. She will absolutely have them mailed by next Friday the 20th. Great! </p>

<p>And yes...I do agree about supplying dates and everything, e-mails. I did all that, but there are those who just don't listen. Even my daughter's counselor who had bright green sticky notes on the Syracuse forms saying don't mail without recommendations (since Syracuse likes everything in one package)...what did he do??? He mailed it anyway! Not only did I send him an e-mail with detailed info, talked to him in a meeting with my daughter but then also had that bright green sticky on there.... there is just no hope for some people! lol! </p>

<p>I wanted to share a cute story my father told me this morning about a rec he wrote a few years ago. The student was AMAZING, all this, all that, 1600 SAT's, captain of everything and truly just one of the best all around kids he had ever seen. My father said his application said all of that and there was nothing else he could add except to say....."John is the best you will find, TAKE HIM." That's it...nothing else and let me say that John got in everywhere and the admissions person from a top school told my dad that was one of the best recs he had ever read! Now if John's parents knew that my father wrote that, they would probably have had a cow...but it worked!</p>

<p>Thanks again for all the great advice!</p>

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<p>I'm not a parent but I'm a senior going through all this and I wanted to share some of my experiences that are relevant to what y'all are discussing. As to getting applications done, I had ten to do so my mother grounded me until I finished mine. Needless to say, I finished all ten in about two weeks. So I have a mixed reaction; on one hand, it sucked being grounded senior year even for just two weeks but, on the other, it made me finish those buggers as quick as humanly possible and I'm completely done, while some of my friends aren't even sure where they're applying. Come December, I'll probably be thanking my mom. As to how to help your child, one of the things that my mom has been doing for me that has helped immensely is being the one who calls the contact person for the all my schools if we have any questions. It really helped me because, living in AZ, the only time I could call schools was in the morning before school and what senior wants to get up early to talk to some college rep? So, pretty much the only way you could do it wrong was to seem uninterested in what your child is doing and where they're applying and what they have to do, etc. Sometimes, it's just nice to have someone to talk to about whatever you're doing, whether they can help you or not.</p>

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<p>Thanks to all that have welcomed me and given me your support. It sounds like the people here are both wise and generous. Danimal88, I bet you are sleeping well at night. Congratulations on having your apps. done!<br>
I have question about "dual applying"... If you apply to a school and pass through the first door (they like you academically), but do not get into the MT program, does that mean that you are out of luck completely or can you choose to attend "undecided," and then hope reapply later. Do schools give pref. treatment to exisiting students? Should my D be applying to multiple departments within each school?
There are no safety schools in MT as far as I can tell, and this is also part of the anxiety for me. The numbers are so intimidating! </p>

<p>Sarahsmom</p>

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<p>Kaysmom, I am not sure I understand why you have to get an English teachers recommendation for application for MT. I have asked for the drama teacher and choir teacher's recommendation letters and thats about it so far.</p>

<p>There are some safety schools out there, where you can be accepted without audition 9see the Big List), and maybe some other schools where you have to still audition but the competition is not so fierce. We are looking at applying to one or two of the more well known schools, and then maybe a few local schools that have good programs, but are not so far up in reputation. One issue my D may have to face is if she get turned down at the school she wants in MT, but does get offered a slot in a different major at the same school.</p>