<p>Take a deep breath!!! If I had read all this before starting the process with my S, I would have run the other way. It is not that bad. As said on a different thread here, the BFA programs are so different in their approach to admissions that you can't even make a statement about CMU and NYU that applies to both. If your S has a gift for acting and is willing to learn (a coach to help with monologues and/or songs is a good idea), then there is a program for him. If he has good academic credentials, he is in better shape for some programs, but for some that is practically irrelevant. Success in the "real" world is achieved through hard work, lucky breaks, networking and especially having a broad definition of success. Good training is important, and it exists at high-powered schools as well as at some not-so-high-powered places, but the more powerful the school's reputation, the more draw it has for highly respected faculty. State schools like U Michigan, UCLA and SUNY Purchase are among the best schools, private or public. I think that the journey is more important than the outcome, but I am a parent, too, and I know the hope of real world success is really the hope that our children can lead fulfilling, self-supporting lives. If this is your S's passion, you can find support here, but don't stress out!!! In the end, he needs you to let him know that this is a tough field and if he wants to try, there are a lot of programs. Look at them all, and we are all here to help you!</p>
<p>The advice given to you by babar and TomBFACoach is right on point. This Board has a ton of info on it and posters who can be good supportive resources, but can also make you nuts if you tap into the level of stress and anxiety that is often manifested here. Having gone through the audition/admissions process with my daughter this year, here's what I would suggest:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>First, don't fixate on any 1 or 2 schools being the "best" or "musts". This will increase stress levels exponentially and frankly the admissions process for MT can seem so mercurial that fixating on 1 or 2 schools is unrealistic and a recipe for disappointment. There are a lot of very good schools out there and the trick is to compile a group that your son could be happy at. Research the heck out of them using their webpages, talking to students on this Board who attend, visiting them, so that you understand the balance and focus of the programs, admission criteria, relative weight given to academics v. talent and the "feel" of the school. Don't get hung up on "name". If the school has a good strong program that fits your son, that's more important than a "name" program that is a bad match.</p></li>
<li><p>Getting started early and organization are critical. The application process for MT is incredibly more time intensive and consuming than a "normal" application because of the need to prepare for auditions. Talk to your son about putting together a time line now so that by the time the fall hits, the only things he needs to worry about are audition preparation and his normal school work. In my daughter's case, she had all of her applications in by September 15 and all of her auditions scheduled by October 1. She spoke to teachers about recommendations in May and June of her junior year and had the envelopes and forms in their hands by late August, early September. As other kids were going nuts throughout the fall getting their applications together, she was free to focus on audition prep.</p></li>
<li><p>If you feel it is appropriate, divide up responsibilities with your son. My daughter and I agreed that she would be responsible for all of the work of substance (essays, securing teacher recommendations, selecting audition pieces and audition prep) and I would oversee and monitor all the administative junk (tracking receipt of applications and related materials by the colleges, tracking the reports etc that the high school needed to send out, preparing mailing labels and envelopes, confirming audition scheduling, travel arrangements etc). Took a lot of stress off of her so she could focus on the stuff she really had to do.</p></li>
<li><p>Have your son spend the summer searching for his audition materials and doing his applications. Applications come out in July for most of the schools. Get them done before h.s. resumes. He should find his audition materials as early as possible to provide as much time as possible to learn them inside and out and then prepare the cuts each school will want. Remember to check each schools website to get the details of what each school requires at the audition. Lengths of songs and monologues and even the types of pieces can vary from school to school. Plan on having 3 monologues from plays and 4 songs from musicals in his available repetoire. What will be needed for each school will vary but this ought to be enough to cover the range requirements for all the schools and leave "backups" in case a school asks to hear more than the stated requirements.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I put together a load of charts and spreadsheets to help with the info gathering and organizational process. If you would like copies to use as templates send me an email through the Board (not a PM) and I'll be glad to send copies to you.</p>
<p>I agree with all said above.. particularly the "take a deep breath" part. The college admissions process is overwhelming, more so when you add the audition componant.</p>
<p>Each student should have a range of schools on their list. If your S is interested in "bigger" name schools like CMU and NYU then by all means he should prepare an audition for those schools and apply. He should also look at other programs that may not be as well known, but where the training is strong.</p>
<p>There are BFA state schools, BA state schools, BA private schools, BFA private schools, 2-year conservatories... each specific program at each of these types of schools will offer different things. It is important that your S do his research, and come up with a list of schools at all of which he thinks he may ultimately be happy. </p>
<p>The MT process is like the "regular" admissions process in the fact that each student needs to have a range of schools on his/ her list. The audition piece complicates the matter because no school that requires an audition can truly be considered a "back-up" program. </p>
<p>As far as your question... can my S be competitive if he attends a state school... (or less well known program)?</p>
<p>I have written this on different parts of this board in the past... going to a "top" BFA program is no guarantee of "success" in the field. Going to a less well known program is no guarantee of "failure" in the field. I attended a BFA MT program... some of my peers have had "successful" careers, some have gone on to pursue other things. I have taught in few BA MT programs at state schools... some of the students have gone on to "successful" careers, some have gone on to pursue other things. </p>
<p>Your S should look for the school that will offer him what he wants out of his college education. Research, research, research... every school is different, and your S should be certain that the program he ultimately attends is gojng to make him happy, and help him grow into the artist that he desires to be. </p>
<p>Good Luck!! :)</p>
<p>One thing I think is being overlooked in the responses is the comment about "state schools". Many state school programs are as competitive, or more so, than the other schools you might read about. Please don't think of your state school as your safety net, because it may not provide that "comfort zone". I know here in PA a couple of hundred students or more audition for 12 MT BFA slots, and the same is true in Florida, Indiana, New Jersey, New York, and probably more. There are many programs with different admission requirements out there....one is bound to be a fit!</p>
<p>I was impressed that MichaelNKat's D thought ahead and asked her teachers for recommendations during May or June of her junior year. Smart move! I would like to advise my D to do the same, but have a question about that:</p>
<p>How many teacher recs does a kid generally need, and in the case of a kid applying to a BFA in MT program, should at least one of those be from a drama teacher, etc? How about more?</p>
<p>Also, were most teachers willing to give your D a recommendation before the end of the school year, already printed on the school stationery and in a sealed school envelope? Others have told me that, for instance, the guidance counselor recommendation (which I am told that most schools require) needs to come straight from the Guidance Dept with other files. Is that true? </p>
<p>Thanks for all this great advice. I cannot believe my kid is one of the next in line for all of this. Eeek! :)</p>
<p>NMR, Most schools my daughter applied to required one or two teacher recommendations (from a teacher of a core subject: english, math, science, social studies) and then one recommendation from someone who knows your daughter in a MT capacity (voice teacher, drama teacher, dance teacher, etc). Syracuse was the only school my daughter applied to that asked that the teacher's recommendations be given to the guidance office and sent as one entire package. If that doesn't happen don't worry, you could absolutely send separately because despite the big colorful sticky notes all over the folder we gave our counselor to mail asking him to wait for the recs....he sent it without them! </p>
<p>Some schools were very specific on the number of recs and only taking that many. Other schools had no problem with you sending in extra if you have them. My daughter got a wonderful recommendation for the executive director of a theater here who has cast her in shows, hired her to teach classes and hired her for separate events in town. I sent it to whoever didn't have a limit on recommendations. We did hear of a lot of kids who had tons of recommendations and sent them all! </p>
<p>The guidance rec does need to be mailed from them along with the transcript and all that good stuff. Try to make a checklist for your counselor that may help him keep track of things. We tried to make things extremely organized for him but in the end he felt he knew what he was doing and just did his own thing. He didn't fill out the pre-printed counselor recommendation forms from the school applications...he just sent his own recommendation in letter format. We didn't know he did that until later and it obviously didn't matter too much because my d ended up doing just fine.</p>
<p>Recs - Some schools require a letter from someone who knows the applicants wok in theatre... often this recommendation would be brought to the audition or sent directly to the department, not to admissions.</p>
<p>State Schools - Very good point about the state schools sarahlsmom.... Penn State, Florida State, Suny Purchase, Rutgers, etc.. are all state schools with HIGHLY competetive theatre or musical theatre programs... these cannot be considered safety schools by anyone. I live in VA and there the buzz is that many people (regular college admissions, not BFA Theatre or MT... VCU is the only BFA program at a state school in VA, and they do not offer a MT degree) are not getting into, or are being waitlisted at what they considered their in-state safety school. As college tuition rises, more and more people are choosing to apply to, and ultimately go to their in-state schools which is making the process more competitive all around.</p>
<p>NMR- you asked if the teachers are willing to give recs early. My D also asked in the spring, and I followed it up with an e-mail specifically stating why recs were needed for the early filing dates in September, and my D's teachers all seemed to think that they could wait until the fall (not really getting the urgency for MT, don't count on anyone to understand that...btw), and they did, but they were recieved early.
I heartily recommend asking the English teacher, they do write very well.</p>
<p>Re: state schools- My D's friend is a talented dancer, and was applying only to state schools in the area for dance, and was told by the guidance counselor that they were all safety schools, and so she sadly only applied to one in her state, and did npt get in, because she beleived the guidance dept. ! This was the same guidance counselor who worked with my D, who was very nice, but didn't seem to connect with the difficulty that audition process adds to the process.</p>
<p>Here's how my D worked it. She asked her teachers in late May, early June if they would be willing and obtained from them email addresses for contacting them during the summer to confirm the arrangements to get to them rec forms and envelopes. The forms and envelopes were delivered to the teachers in their school mail boxes about 10 days before school started. By the end of the first full week of September, all of her teacher recs were out. The teachers actually appreciated getting it early since it avoided the crush and as a result were also able to give more unhurried individual attention to her recs. We included each college's rec form with the envelop (whether Common App or individual) filled out with all of my D's identifying info and just asked the teachers to do the rec in any form they desired but to attach the college form for identification purposes. As to the number of recs, we followed the colleges' guidelines for academic recs but added to them a rec from an instructor from a college level summer MT program my D attended and a rec from the teacher who is the director of all the H.S. shows.</p>
<p>As to guidance counselor reports/recs and transcripts, we met with the guidance counselor the first week of school and gave her a folder for each college containing 3 completed envelopes and the appropriate forms completed with all identifying info. We also gave her a spreadsheet showing the timeline for getting the stuff out and explained any unique needs due to MT programs. In this regard, we checked with each college about the dates for transcripts based on the H.S. marking periods. NOTE - Some colleges justed wanted the 1st quarter marking period transcript, some the 1st semester (2 marking periods) and some both! Check the cutoffs with each college against the H.S. end dates for each grading period. The guidance counselor appreciated all of this - the organization and getting everything to her early simply made her job easier. As a result, the guidance counselor reports to each college were out by Oct 1. Transcripts followed in due course.</p>
<p>As I've said in other posts, our kids have enough on their plates doing all of the substantive work preparing for auditions, doing their normal school work, ec's etc. As a parent, I felt that anything we could do to keep things organized and moving on OUR time table was well worth the effort. BTW, check with colleges regularly to confirm receipt of materials. You would be amazed at the number of items that get "lost" on someone's desk in the admissions office or "never arrive". The sheer volume the colleges are dealing with make it inevitable.</p>
<p>Gosh, everyone, thanks for all the advice and help! I don't think my D will have any trouble impressing on her GC the importance of timeliness and what she is up against vis a vis applying and auditioning, as she attends an arts high school and many of her peers (not only in theatre, but also in music and dance) have to audition for their college admissions. Our biggest obstacle is that the school has only one guidance counselor. :) She, however, is an amazing person and gets it all done, though I don't know how. Thanks again.</p>
<p>I second all of MichaelNKat's comments...especially the following up with the colleges for missing data. At one school we spent 3 weeks getting them to locate his ACT score...it was in their download from ETS but for some reason their IT people had not pulled it and gotten it into their hands. At another school they had not accepted his 1st semester transcript because, even though it was stamped as official, it had come in his app package and not one specifically from the school. But for reasons they never really explained they had not told us that would be a problem. We only found out because we had passed the deadline for when they were supposed to let us know everythign was in order.</p>
<p>We chose to have S do the followups himself...one of the last life lessons we've been teaching (aside from this spring making him solely, 100% responsible for his own laundry, but that's another story) is the concept of thinking far enough ahead to adequately sequence and prioritize everything...but I did continually nudge him about the things that he'd not gotten onto his list to followup on.</p>
<p>I'm a Junior considering going into MT...well, I love love love MT but I'm pretty academically-oriented, and have pretty much pushed MT schools out of my mind. I've been visiting and thinking about selective, challenging schools like Brown, UPenn, William and Mary, and Cornell. What I really wish is to find a school where I still have the freedom I know I need to explore for a few years before deciding what to major in - I love so many different topics I have NO idea what I want to study - but where I can also double-major in MT with whatever else. I've been looking around CC for months, and know that, if anything, a BA is for me, but does anyone know anything about how it works if someone wants to double-major between an art and a non-art major (which means between schools, in a university)? Do you apply to MT and audition, and also apply to the other school? And is it possible to double major with MT and something else - or does it just kill you? I really cannot decide what I want to do right now, and as senior year is coming up soon, I'm feeling pretty stressed - so if anyone has any thoughts, please let me know!</p>
<p>Excellent schools like the ones you are considering have well-funded programs in the performing arts. You will not have to audition to be admitted to the school, but your talent may be a strong asset in the admissions process. Once at a school such as this, you can audition for shows and become involved in the theatre. You would have to look at each school to see if there is a MT minor. Since none of the schools you listed have BFA programs, you would be in a strong position to participate in the school's theatre program. You might consider an MFA when you are done. Brown has a great theatre program; I don't know about the others. Good luck!</p>
<p>mkt.....a BA path seems to be the one for you, as there is no commitment to the major upon applying and you can explore many things and decide on a major later or double major, etc. Most BA schools do not involve auditions to get in but a few do. </p>
<p>I think your options are either to pursue a BA school with a theater (but not MT department) but with a very strong theater and musical theater scene on campus................OR
apply to some of the few BA in Musical Theater schools, some by audition and some not. There are not a lot of BA in MT options. </p>
<p>I know a lot of very strong students who WANTED a BA path but who are extremely talented in musical theater and could have gone to BFA schools. They are actively engaged in Musical theater productions and some are majoring in THEATER at these schools (but these schools do not have a MT major itself). Examples: Brown, Yale, Tufts, Cornell, Penn, Harvard, Conn College, Middlebury, and several others. </p>
<p>Some have chosen BA in Musical Theater schools (NOT BFA)....such as Northwestern, American, James Madison, UCLA. </p>
<p>I am working with someone who will apply to some BFAs and some BAs and actuallly she has William and Mary on her list. </p>
<p>I have a child of my own at Brown and worked with a MT student who applied to Brown and now attends. Brown is a fantastic option for someone wanting strong academics but also a very active theater scene, including musical theater, and a strong straight theater department, along with opportunities to take private voice and so forth. I know MANY who have attended Yale, are there now, or are about to enter who all are very passionate and talented in Musical Theater. Great place to go if you can get in. But it will not be a MT major.</p>
<p>Going back to the discussion about preparing ahead and working with guidance counselors and getting teacher rec's. We split duties like some of the previous posters. My son chose where he wanted to apply, did applications, essays, read plays, chose monologues, chose and practiced songs for the auditions. I was the travel and calendar coordinator. Part of organizing the calendar was to figure out when the school had to get in records and guidance counselor and teacher recommendations (which our HS required to go through the counselor to be submitted). Sometimes these dates are very early, especially if one wants to request a fall audition date. We made out an Excel spreadsheet with each school listed and all of the important deadlines and gave it to the guidance counselor in a meeting at the beginning of the school year. This spreadsheet included a column for each type of record that a school might request. We had to help him understand that due dates were different when a student must audition for acceptance. It took a little work, but we were able to convince him that our dates were reasonable. They worked very well with us to get everything in on time.</p>
<p>thanks for the info. I am the mom and my daughter needs to find a good academic school that has a vibrant and active theatre program (her passion).
We looked at Carnegie-Mellon and it's ALL about MT.
She wants more BA stuff. Thinking about Law in future. Possible double in Music or minor. Right now does dinner theatre every weekend.
Where can I find list of schools that work? SHe has 4.2 GPA IB programme but only 1300 SAT so far... Thanks for your help!</p>
<p>Take a look at Muhlenberg. Not "rated" as highly (ie. "status") as some of the other schools mentioned but in reality the academics are excellent and challenging. Known for providing very solid basis for "pre-law" and "pre-med" and has an excellent BA non-audition theatre program which includes MT opportunities. Dance and vocal music departments are very strong. Worth a look.</p>
<p>Spotlightmom- Muhlenberg is also SAT optional.</p>
<p>Yes, I think that those kids who choose not to submit SAT or ACT scores can interview instead.</p>
<p>Spotlightmom,
I would need to know a whole lot more about your D to really zero in on the right schools for her. Based on the very little information, I'll just throw out possibilities to look into (all are BA not BFA)....</p>
<p>Muhlenberg (optional audition) *SAT optional
James Madison (audition)
American (audition)
Northwestern (MT certificate program audition end of first year)
Connecticut College (optional audition) * SAT optional
Tufts
Middlebury
Drew * SAT optional
Sarah Lawrence * SAT optional
Vassar
Skidmore
UCLA (MT audition end of first year, beginning of second)
USC
Brown
Emory
Boston College
Indiana (their BA program)
Susquehanna
Santa Clara University
Wagner (required audition)
Brandeis University</p>