<p>I just found out that my very talented daughter has below a 3.0 in school. This is a first for her. She switched schools this year for the new school's drama/choir program and I think she is enjoying herself too much. She will be a senior next year and I am wondering if she majors in MT in college would it be best to find a college right away or could she go to a local Junior College, get her grades up and then apply. She is not motivated to do well in classes such as chemistry and spanish. She said she doesn't see them helping her in her future. Help!</p>
<p>Does your D want a BFA program? My answer would be different depending on your answer. If she wanted a BA, she could do a junior college and then transfer. If she is seeking a BFA, it is hard enough to get in as a freshman but way harder to be admitted for far fewer transfer slots (and some schools make transfers start over as freshmen). </p>
<p>Your D needs to work very hard to get her grades back up this fall. That semester will matter. However, given her GPA, she needs to look at BFA schools (if that is the degree she is seeking) where her academic profile is in range with those of admitted students. I don't know her SAT scores. </p>
<p>For a BFA, she may wish to explore schools like BOCO, UArts, Marymount Manhattan, Hartt, Roosevelt, Pace, Montclair State, Shenandoah, Point Park, College of Santa Fe, New World School of the Arts, Indiana, or Baldwin-Wallace, which in general are less selective schools academically speaking. </p>
<p>You might want to talk to your D about how academics are important in college admissions. Even BFA programs have some liberal arts courses and the schools want to know the student can do the work. Also a person's academic record sometimes speaks to their work ethic. Colleges will weigh all the pieces, though the audition is very key. Your D must seek out schools where the academic qualifications needed are within her range. You only mentioned the GPA but there is more to evaluating her academic chances such as her class rank/percentile, her SATs, the rigor of her coursework (Honors, AP, etc.), as well as the academic selectivity (admit rate) to the university itself. One has to build an appropriate list. One student's list will differ from the next. The problems I see are when students just list BFA in MT schools they have heard of with no regard to their qualifications for getting in. I have worked with students with GPAs under 3.0. Their college list is not the same as for students with a 3.9, for example. They do get into college IF they have the right list of schools. Look at some of the ones I mentioned above. I would have to know FAR more about your D to say her chances at these. But that is a list to start with and then examine the admit rates, the SAT range, the class rank range, the average GPA, the high school course requirements, etc. for each school.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for your quick response. My daughter has always had a 3.5 gpa throughout high school. This is the first semester for her GPA to drop. She has taken honors and AP classes. So she is trying to challenge herself, but only in subjects that interest her. I am constantly telling her how important grades are. But she is stubborn. She feels that her talent will get her into a good college. Her SAT's were not very good so she needs to take them over along with the ACT. She didn't study for either test and it shows. She did take 2 subject tests. Literature she got a 600 and History she got a 660. She wants to take the literature over again. I thought she wanted to minor in history when she goes to college but her lack of interest in academics makes me wonder if she should be doing this. Do you know if it is possible to get a BFA and also minor in history?</p>
<p>Minoring while a BFA MT major is very school specific. It depends on the extent to which the mandated MT curriculum allows for electives outside of the department. In addition, even if there appears to be sufficient allotted electives to take a minor in another subject, keep in mind the time demands of MT outside of class (rehearsals, performances, serving as crew etc) and that a minor will require a number of more demanding upper level courses than simply taking a variety of different L.A. classes to fulfill the out of department electives.</p>
<p>My D will definitely want to think twice about minoring in history. She tires easily and it sounds like the load from MT will be more than enough. Thank you so much for your information.</p>
<p>A BFA is not like a normal college major. The time involvement is huge in terms of class hours, preparation, homework and then crewing, rehearsing and performing in shows. Minors are possible at some schools and not others. For instance, at my daughter's school, NYU/Tisch, a student COULD minor in history and my D has a friend in the BFA who is doing so. My daughter doesn't have a minor however. </p>
<p>I cannot tell with your D's GPA if that was a cumulative GPA that was under 3.0 or just her junior GPA. If she had a 3.5 going into junior year, and then had a 3.0 for junior year, her cumulative GPA would be higher than 3.0. But if her cumulative GPA for three years is under 3.0 and she had a 3.5 going into junior year, then that means her junior year was quite a bit below 3.0 to now result in a cumulative GPA below 3.0. That latter situation would not be good. But I can't tell from your posts. I would have to examine her transcript, her rigor of curriculum, and much else. I don't have enough information. However, I did share with you some schools that are "easier" to get into ACADEMICALLY speaking for a BFA in MT.</p>
<p>soozievt
Thank you for your response. My daughter is going to have to think long and hard about minoring. She loves history, but her passion is MT. She wanted a back up just in case.
My D has a cumulative GPA of 3.43 up until this last semester of her Junior year. Hopefully, she can will get her GPA up next Fall so she will have more college options.
My daughter has a counselor at school that has not been very helpful. She probably would be better off finding a counselor that specializes in Colleges of the Arts. Unfortunately we live in No. California where college counselors are more inclined to understand Business/Engineering majors. Do you have any suggestions?</p>
<p>NCMTmom...most guidance counselors are not familiar with the special admissions process that performing arts majors undertake. If you would like such assistance with your daughter's process, College Confidential offers such counseling services. I am one of the counselors on staff. While i advise many students and families about regular college admissions, I am the counselor on staff who also specializes in theater admissions and many of my clients are applying to college for this field. If you want further information about these counseling options, you may contact me through email. CC advises students from all over the country and the world, including CA.</p>
<p>BFA programs do not require all the other academic pieces for admission - Many schools are looking for qualities like teachability and commitment, passion and creativity. In fact, I know kids who had mediocre grades and test scores who were accepted at CMU. Some kids with great scores and grades and even talent don't get into CMU. It's not a deal-breaker if a high school student doesn't have it "all." Yes, U Michigan has a bar that must be passed before auditions and NYU is clear about academic standards (though they are flexible at times). It's really a different process to get into a BFA program than to get into a BA program - and it's even more difficult to predict results. Your daughter sounds like a normal kid. Normal kids are of value, really and truly - Give her a hug! My kid was a lopsided kid in many ways throughout high school and is thriving in an excellent BFA program now. But even throughout the process as I tried to predict chances after auditions and essays and interviews seemed to go well or not - I was wrong more than right.</p>
<p>Well said, babar, especially the part about "normal" being lovely and of value. It made me think of how, back when I was a little kid, parents just wanted to hear that their kids were normal and average. Now, parents want their kids to be superstars in every way. In fact, one educational psychologist I interviewed back when I was a reporter told me that she believed parents today would rather hear that their child has learning differences and/or emotional problems than hear that their kid is just plain "normal." "That's because parents know that LDs and emotional problems can be 'fixed' or addressed with therapy, medication, special schools, etc. But nothing can be done about plain old normal." Isn't that a vivid snapshot of our generation's parenting style and expectations? End of NMR rant. :)</p>
<p>NMR - That's exactly what is wrong! We have a fixation on having above average children - We devote ourselves to them and then use them as mirrors for ourselves - I know a family whose kid didn't get into an Ivy League school, so they made him take a year off to test him for LDs...how terrible would that make a kid feel? And in the performing arts, there is always the fear that if the kid doesn't get the lead or the solo or whatever, then they're pegged, doomed, not validated. Normal is so refreshing that soon it will be sought after!!!</p>
<p>Totally off-topic, but in my opinion, in a twisted sort of way at least some of the emphasis on "above average" is a product of the symmetry of the federal education bureaucracy & policies. In the 70s when there was the first movement to begin addressing the special needs of children with difficulties someone decided that bright children needed the same attention. That's where the "gifted & talented" nomenclature first came in. If you are going to carve out the left leg of the "normal" bell curve make sure you also carve out the right. But of course the middle doesn't want to be average...that means no special treatment. So now what? Well if you are in the middle and can't make it into the top then "clearly" it's because you have a previously unrecognized problem and belong in the bottom because it's not cool or acceptable to be "normal"</p>
<p>Now comes "No Child Left Behind" aka the anti-GT act (I call it "No Child Gets Ahead"). The schools in our state (leaders of educational excellence that they are...NOT...have taken that as a license to begin dismantling GT programs which they had already begun to de-emphasize in the first place because they didn't want to spend the extra money to pay GT certified teachers. The new theory lcoally is that if you DO have gifted kids setting the bar it will be impossible to bring the rest along; federal money dries up, etc, etc.</p>
<p>How big a deal is all this? Well when I was in school "Special Ed" meant the kids that were challenged primarily with profound physical or emotional ailments. I simply had to laugh when I learned that now, according to the law children in gifted and talented programs are also considered to be "Special Ed".</p>
<p>I mean NO offense with my soap box. It's just something that bugs me a lot when I compare education today with 30-40 years ago when I was in school. I personally think, in many respects and in many parts of the country we are headed in the wrong direction. W and I have always subscribed to the philosophy that the parent and child are at least as responsible as the schools for their learning. Probably most on CC are the same. But I daresay it's not the majority case.</p>
<p>Hello all,</p>
<p>soozievt mentioned The Hartt School of the University of Hartford as one of the schools "that is less selective academically speaking." We do consider talent first. However, applicants will be reviewed academically by the University of Hartford. Those who do not have a B average on their high school transcripts and over a 920 between the critical reading and math sections of the SAT will not be accepted, even if they score well in their audition/interview.</p>
<p>Please feel free to contact me with any questions.</p>
<p>Thank you Hartt Admissions rep. I certainly believe that Hartt takes academics into the admissions review process. I have advised applicants who have applied there. The schools I mentioned were NOT meant as schools where academics do not count in the admissions process. Not the case at all, just as you say about Hartt. I meant that these schools ACADEMICALLY speaking (not the artistic part of the review) are less selective than some others.....meaning higher acceptance rates to the university, lower SAT score ranges, lower GPA ranges, lower class rank range of enrolled students, and lower expectations for rigor of HS curriculum than some more academically selective schools. Thus, a student with a 1400 SAT and a 4.0 GPA, ranked in the top 10% of the class, having taken the hardest tracked classes available at their HS, and applying to a university with a 66% acceptance rate (not the BFA acceptance rate of course) might consider U of Hartford/Hartt an ACADEMIC safety. Likewise, a student with a 3.0, no Honors or AP classes (if offered), ranked in the 50th percentile of the class, with a a 1000 combined CR/M SAT, might have difficulty getting in academically to a school like NYU, U of Michigan, U of Miami, USC, etc. with higher stat ranges of enrolled students and much lower university academic acceptance rates, but might consider applying to U of Hartford/Hartt and other schools I mentioned above. Students should have academic reaches, matches and safeties on their college list and can determine where a school falls for them academically speaking by examining the stats of enrolled students and the university's academic acceptance rate.</p>
<p>Students should be well advised as you indicated, that even with schools with "easier" stat ranges or higher acceptance rates, academics will count and be reviewed for admission. I am glad that you pointed out that if a student cannot pass academic muster with a particular school's standards, they will not be admitted even if they have artistic talent. That is why it is important for students to have the appropriate list of colleges that match their own academic and artistic credentials or level. I have seen too many students just list schools offering a BFA in MT as their own college list with no regard to their own qualifications and that are very unrealistic lists (either academically or artistically). The right list is CRUCIAL to yield some results.</p>
<p>By the way, my brother attended the University of Hartford and enjoyed his time there very much.I have been there as well. Also, a very special lady who has recently passed away, but who spent years working in the Univ. of Hartford admissions office and then settled in my town in Vermont....spent at least 15 years as a FULL time volunteer in one of the elementary school classrooms here. In fact, one of my children got to work with her full time for three years as this was a multi age grade 1/2/3 class. I knew this lady very well as I volunteered weekly in that class as well and then for years have subsituted in that class alongside of her. Her dedication to education was enormous and numerous hildren here benefitted from her volunteerism. She spoke HIGHLY of her time at U of Hartford in admissions and the college students with whom she touched, and in fact, representatives from your university came to speak here at her funeral which I attended. Her initials are TT and I don't know how long you have been at U of Hartford but if it was back then, I hope you knew this very special person.</p>
<p>I would appreciate any information about Columbia College in Chicago and their theater program. I am looking at any and all colleges "one state away" from Wisconsin. My son told me this morning that he doesn't want to go any further from home at this time. Thank you</p>
<p>dreamcoat, if you use the "search" function on this forum, a number of post about Columbia College in Chicago should pop up. Your son may also be interested in Roosevelt, which also offers a BFA in MT and is also in Chicago.</p>
<p>Dreamcoat,
If your son is looking for a BFA in Musical Theater, and wants to stay in your general region, that limits the choices as some possible good fits for him may not be in that area as many BFA in MT programs are not. Nonetheless, there are a number of programs in that region, and some (not all) are less well known which is fine. I thought I would mention some to you in case you have not heard of them. I stuck with states near your state but also included Ohio which is not that far away either. </p>
<p>Here are some:
Univ. of Wisconsin-Stevens Point
Viterbo Univ.
Illinois Wesleyan
Millikin Univ.
Northwestern University
Roosevelt
Western Illinois
Ball State
Indiana
Drake University
U of Michigan
Western Mich U
Central Mich U
U of Minnesota-Duluth
Baldwin-Wallace
Kent State
Marietta
Otterbein
CCM
Wright State</p>
<p>Some of these schools have been discussed a lot on CC and have their own individual sub forums which you will find at the top of the MT Forum....click on these to find threads discussing those particular schools. For other college programs without their own sub forum, use the Search function near the top of the window and search the MT Forum for the names of those programs as there may be a thread on those as well. Colombia College has been discussed here at times.</p>
<p>Welcome to CC!</p>
<p>Thank you for the list of colleges neighboring Wisconsin. University of Wisconsin in Milwaukee has a new MT program -any thoughts?</p>
<p>dreamcoat, I am sorry to say that I have not heard of the program. I am imagining it draws prospective students more from the region than nationally. I live on the East Coast and while I work with students from around the country, the school you mention is not on my radar. See if you can talk to faculty there and also ask for names of current students. I have not seen that school discussed here.</p>
<p>Soozievt,
We've looked at the school and recently saw a production of West Side Story that was amazing. The head of the MT program is Bill Lavonis. My son's voice teacher is going to be on faculty there in the fall. The location is great - the facilities O.K. Stevens Point has a beautiful performing arts building - but it is a small town. Thank you so much for your help.</p>