<p>Since when do high school teachers have tenure? Teachers get fired all of the time. Teachers grade how they see fit, as do professors. Stop complaining about fairness, because life isn’t fair. I’m sure you’ve told that to your son before, now you should take your own advice. You make the best with what you have, and keep going on. If he doesn’t get into the school, then it wasn’t his teacher’s fault, it was his. He didn’t match whatever grades, scores, uniqueness, etc. that they wanted. Nobody agrees that your son was robbed of his college chances, no one is outraged. Sorry, but you’re on your own.</p>
<p>When we note vals or etc, it’s to add perspective. Those kids are equally disappointed. You made it clear he wasn’t aiming at HYP.</p>
<p>Not saying that I agree with OP about unfairness of variations among teachers in grading, etc. but HS school teachers in public schools here certainly have tenure.</p>
<p>There have been a few instances where I believe that some teachers in our district have continued to teach well beyond burn out and yet they are not fired…</p>
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<p>And those high schools exist overwhelmingly in extremely well-to-do neighborhoods where parents are both educated professionals. In other words, your son was clearly already born on third base.</p>
<p>Every high school has (and has always had) the problem of teachers with different grading approaches to the same subject. Evaluation of class participation and essay tests is so subjective that I think it would be impossible to guarantee parity among teachers. Substituting standardized multiple choice tests wouldn’t solve the problem either, because each teacher will cover the material in a different way with different emphasis. But it mostly evens out for everyone–you get a few tough graders and a few easier ones. In the end, the best students have the best grades. The students who manage to get A’s despite the vagaries of teacher style certainly deserve to be admitted to colleges before those who don’t.</p>
<p>My son told me that Regents scholarships to UCLA and/or Berkeley are given only to students at his school who have straight As. These are scholarships that are apparently worth a minimum of $2500 a year. The amount of the scholarship increases with need. His very smart friend who has 2 Bs on his record, one from the first semester in classes taught by the 2 toughest teachers teaching their respective courses, did not get one. </p>
<p>Most of my son’s friends’ parents are immigrants from China. The parents push their kids, because they feel that the cards are stacked against them in admission to college. I am very surprised some of these parents have made these comments openly in front of my son, who is white, and the students discuss this observation openly in front of him, too. This is just how they feel. My son is a close friend, and they feel comfortable talking openly in front of him. In the interest of abiding by CC’s rules, I am not offering my opinion on this matter. I am just repeating what my son has heard parents say in his friends’ homes, and what the students talk about among each other. </p>
<p>The long list of NMSQT finalists is nearly entirely comprised of Asian names. That’s a fact. The families from the rich section of our area are nearly all white, and those kids are not at the top of the class.</p>
<p>In our community, it’s the less wealthy, more middle class immigrant families, some with parents who have struggled with job losses, who have produced our school’s smartest students. Some will definitely attend UCLA or UCB, because their parents cannot afford a private college. Many others are willing to go into debt for a chance for their children to attend a top college.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: Although you could not possibly have known, your comment is an attack on kids from hard-working families, some of them struggling financially.</p>
<p>MommaJ: It doesn’t necessarily work out in the end, especially when you have some guidance counselors who are willing to help students with their schedules and others who are not. </p>
<p>The students in non-athletic, more academically oriented extra-curricular activities complain that the principal attends every football game, but does not even bother to congratulate students who gain national attention in other pursuits. Two of my son’s teachers, one who directs his extra-curricular activity and one who teaches only AP science classes (not AP Environmental Science), have made this observation and comment regularly on the favoritism extended to the athletes. The athletes tend to come from the rich section and have parents who have been paying for coaching and summer training in tennis, track, etc since their little darlings were very young. I’ve often wondered if it’s easier for them to get their schedules changed than it is for everyone else. It certainly seems that way. My son’s tough English class last year taught by the teacher regarded as the toughest in the school had many fewer white kids in it than other English classes. By and large, they still aren’t at the top of the class. My son was one of the few whites who remained. This is a FACT. I guess if I contributed a lot of money to the school’s foundation, I would expect the principal’s door to be open to me, too, and I would expect some favors.</p>
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<p>Just as it’s not “fair” that some teachers grade harder than others, it’s also not “fair” that some families have the means to pay for coaching / summer training. For example, I have two nieces who have D1 tennis scholarships – thanks in great measure to having well-to-parents who spared no expense in their coaching and had the ability to have an at-home parent travel with them all around the country from a young age. Should that be corrected for in some way too?</p>
<p>I also don’t know what the presence or absence of a hard-working, academically-oriented Asian population at your kid’s school has anything to do with anything. Great for these families / kids that they work so hard. My philosophy is that I focus on my kids and helping them achieve their potential, not on worrying about their classmates.</p>
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<p>It used to annoy me greatly that the principal’s newsletters started with recognizing students who had done well athletically and THEN the students who had done well in academically-oriented extracurriculars (such as debate team). I think the academic EC’s should be recognized first, and then the athletic ones. I saved it up til after my kids graduated, then I wrote them a scathing letter.</p>
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<p>There is grading disparity at every high school. (This is why I’ll never understand valedictorian fever.) And in college too, and professional schools. The fact is that, because your son has taken a demanding curriculum and experienced tougher-grading teachers, he’ll be better prepared than many of his classmates for success in college. Subjectivity in grading can’t be eliminated from certain subjects and assignments. College-prep English, history, and similar subjects can’t be reduced to multiple-choice or other objective exams. </p>
<p>LividDad, I am sorry for your son’s disappointment. I know it’s hard to see our children unhappy. But I think the folks who have suggested here that you move on, or accept it, are trying to do you a kindness. You can most help your son now by seeing all the possibilities that await him at the schools that will certainly accept such a fine student. Good luck to him.</p>
<p>All this over a deferral? Maybe not, I think OP is trying to sort things through. But there are several issues running here- problems with the principal, open problems with attitude about him, differing grading by different teachers, gpa-based scholarships, some academically agressive families, local socio-economics, athlete prefs, on down the line to: son’s best chances. It may help to sort them out. You can work with the parents’ assn, the school board or whatever. But, what several are saying about your son is that how he bounces back is an important step. </p>
<p>We understand your son chose integrity over easier grades. It’s possibe that, if his grades had been higher, there still wouldn’t have been a seat at his EA school. So many factors matter in that. Or his top choice could be too expensive or the finaid package not what you hoped for. </p>
<p>Collectively, these (and more) are all the issues some/most of us are aware of. I think it’s safe to say, each of us has experienced unfairness (including some CC families who see the impact of legacy, diversity, athletic recruiting, etc.) If this were December, maybe we could offer tips for his applications, suggest great colleges, etc. But it’s February.</p>
<p>I do see apps and one thing that strikes me is how many great kids at the best hs in the country face a natural weeding out before they even finish their apps. How does #10 or 20 at some of these super hs get attention? While #1 or 2 at some less competitive hs have the rank, straight A’s and raves in the LoRs? How do we distinguish between that #10 and * this* kid whose hs only offered 2 APs? How do you scope out whether the kid had privileges and internships because of family connections versus the kid’s own vision and drive? In the end, it’s part “nose” and part the Unis doing what’s best for them. Add that one of the issues for all kids from all the highly respected educ districts is that the sheer number of them works against them. Geo diversity. Still wishing you and son the best.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl said: “I also don’t know what the presence or absence of a hard-working, academically-oriented Asian population at your kid’s school has anything to do with anything. Great for these families / kids that they work so hard. My philosophy is that I focus on my kids and helping them achieve their potential, not on worrying about their classmates.”</p>
<p>The reason why I spoke about the Asian population at my kids’ school was because of your comment that my son has obviously already made it to third base due to our affluence. The truth is that he has made it to third base in the sense that he has had the opportunity to attend high school with some of the best and the brightest, but that does not mean that the best and the brightest in our area come from the rich section. My wife and I don’t either.</p>
<p>My impression has been that legacy does not count much any longer, especially at the best universities- not unless you can donate enough to build a major building. With rare exceptions, the only students accepted EA or ED from my son’s high school were recruited athletes and a couple of students who successfully micromanaged their schedules to get the easiest teachers. The rest of the students are furious. While everyone agrees that a few of the athletes were academically qualified, the rest were decidedly not. The legacy applicants were all turned down.</p>
<p>Depending on the college, simple legacy can matter much, even w/o donating a building. The kids have to be qualified. That’s not the point, tho. Point is, in a competitive situation, many will lose an opportunity for reasons beyond their control. Many can and do gripe.</p>
<p>All I can say is you’re out of your mind if you think top tier colleges look at GPA and consider that the bottom line. GPA is the starting point. They look at the courseload. They look at a significant amount of historical data from the highschool. They look at which courses students got good grades in and which they didn’t. Regional counselors that are very familiar with the highschools weigh in. These decisions are informed.</p>
<p>He got the fairest chance admissions were capable of providing. Some standardized grade distribution in your son’s highschool would not have gotten him accepted, sorry. It’s very easy to be bitter in the face of rejection.</p>
<p>It sucks, but it’s never going to change. My grade had 10 intel semifinalists this year and 1 finalist, with our average SAT being 2100 (just so you don’t freak out at me like you did to barrk for going to bad school which I obviously don’t), and not all of those intel stars got into an Ivy. You should take the advice you gave barrk and apply it to yourself; there are probably thousands of kids in the country that could have done better than your son in his classes, and they all deserve spots too. He got a fair shot, but had bad luck. It’s as simple as that. If the high school is as rigorous as you think it is, the college probably factored that into their decision - the regional reps are very knowledgeable.
As for your assumption that financial aid money goes to internationals, I assure you that very little schools give financial aid to foreign students. Besides, diversity is a plus on campus - it makes complete sense to want people from different backgrounds. Ivy’s and a lot of other good colleges are private institutions, they’re not obligated to take people from their area.</p>