<p>Hi everyone! This thread is for parents with mismatched, lopsided, and/or skewed students. For example, such students might have:
SAT or ACT scores higher than grades
Grades higher than SAT or ACT scores
One area of SAT or ACT way higher than others
Way stronger in some subjects than others
Strong in one area
Stellar ECs but class rank is low
etc. etc. - you get my drift!</p>
<p>I know that this comes up on CC ("3.3 to 3.6 applying to top 20 thread," "fine arts thread", etc.) but perhaps we could all share some wisdom on one thread to help each other with these confusing students!
Thanks for sharing your stories!</p>
<p>OK, I’ll start since this is getting more views than comments.
My D’s SAT scores (1480/2150, taken only once in December of 11th grade) are better than her grades (3.5 GPA).
Her first semester grades (3.6 or higher) are consistently better than her second semester grades (3.4 or lower) each year.
Her humanities grades (mostly As) are better than her math/science grades (mostly Bs with one C).
Her ECs are very good.
She wants to be intellectually challenged in college. Her classes now are full of very smart kids and she likes that.
What do we do with this? Are there colleges that fit this profile?</p>
<p>levirm, if you look at my posts in the 3.6 - applying to top 20 and 3.3-3.6 you’ll see a kid who is very similar to yours. He did benefit from the school’s method of weighting grades that put him in the top 6% of the class. And he managed to get an A- in AP Bio, to make up for the C+ in honors Chem and the B+'s in both regular and AP Physics. My son’s strategy was to find one safety he loved (American), and another safety he could live with (Syracuse- but he didn’t end up applying there) because one of his reaches (Chicago) accepted him early) and the rest of his list was reaches. There were some matches on the list originally, but he liked American better than all of them, so they fell off the list. He’s going to Tufts. For a kid who wants to go to a college on the reachy end of their GPA, I think finding a teacher who loved them and will say the right things, and writing targeted essays really is a help. My son came off as an extremely likable, someone amusing kid in his applications who wasn’t afraid to take a few risks. While his CR score was 100 points higher than his Math and writing scores, they weren’t so low as to raise eyebrows at most schools. We were lucky that he tests well. The only score we suppressed when we were allowed to was a 610 on the Math2 subject test.</p>
<p>There are definitely schools for B+ students especially with strong scores. If you look at LACs outside your geographic area, or places like Chicago where a home run essay may make a difference and find a way to tell a story about yourself it will help. My son was the kid who sold origami earrings and was interested in international relations (especially global warming) and history. Even his Science Olympiad experience turned out to be related since he medaled in the Ecology events. Imagine yourself sitting at the table at the admissions office - when they pull out your folder what will they say? I think it was Calmom who said she thought it was very helpful that her daughter was “the dancer who spent a year in Russia” which allowed them to overlook an extremely iffy math score and some missing standard courses in her high school record. Play up your strengths.</p>
<p>My son had a bad freshman year with an upward trend ever since. </p>
<p>As a junior, his SATs and junior grades were all okay for most of the schools he is considering, but because of the early low grades, his overall GPA still is under the averages of most schools. Let’s hope they give him some credit for upward trend!</p>
<p>Thanks, mathmom, and congratulations to your son! I did follow that thread for a while but became lost when the results started coming in and couldn’t keep track; I think that the parents on that thread were very insightful and helpful. I think that I saw a note on there about how Chicago does consider SAT scores more than grades. Do you know what other schools do this?
AParentalUnit, good for your son with his upward trend. I do think that colleges will give some slack regarding freshman grades. I wonder if there are parents who know of colleges that ignore the freshman grades entirely.</p>
<p>levirm – I’ve got a learning style question. Why do think your daughter’s grades go down in the spring? Is it that she fades as the course work gets tougher? Or, do you think that she loses motivation and interest over time? If its the latter, she might really do better in a college setting that favors shorter terms, such as a quarter system rather than a semester system, or a 4-1-4 system - or even a block plan (one course at a time) like Colorado College or Cornell College.</p>
<p>My son will most likely go somewhere for football, but if for whatever reason that doesn’t work out, I want to know his options.</p>
<p>His GPA is lower than his SAT, but he has a relatively challenging courseload and goes to the #1 public school in the state, for what its worth.</p>
<p>GPA: 3.3
SAT: 1450/2170</p>
<p>What schools do you think we should be looking at if football doesn’t work out?</p>
Hmmm, I don’t think that is true at all! My d. was accepted at U of Chicago with test scores below their median – (she turned down he spot) – but she had a very high GPA and class rank. If anything I think Chicago is the other way around - grades and essays are very important, test scores are not valued that highly. I get that not only from my own experience, but from something that was posted online here by the ad com from Chicago who used to post in the thread there.</p>
<p>Also, in light of my comment above (#8) – I’m not sure if Chicago would be the best fit for your daughter. I think your d’s grade pattern might indicate in issue with stamina – and Chicago has a reputation of pushing stamina to the limits. To draw a sports analogy, if your daughter is a sprinter, maybe you want to avoid colleges that specialize in marathons. </p>
<p>So I’m suggesting that you use your observations about your daughters grade patterns to shed light on what type of learning environment will be the best fit for her. I know that you are worried about where she might be accepted - but I think ad coms also look at fit factors. (For example, I can imagine the Chicago ad com looking at my d’s application and saying, “hmmm, those test scores are kind of low, but she writes really well and she’s clearly a very hard worker and highly motivated … we think she’ll stick with things and do well here.”)</p>
<p>Keep in mind that your daughter can find intellectual and academic challenge at many colleges – not just the ones that have the “life of the mind” reputations. Based on what you’ve posted so far - and I admit I am reading a lot into your post and engaging in guess work – I’m thinking your d. might want to avoid colleges with strong core requirements and opt for schools that provide some freedom for her to explore. I’m wondering if she is the type of student who works best when she really is engaged and enjoys the subject.</p>
<p>My D also turned out lopsided. Her GPA was 3.95 taking the most difficult courses offered at her school (AP Physics C, Calc BC, etc). Her SAT I was rather low in comparison, 2200 with a boost from a high Writing score. Her admission results were very good but she was not admitted to her first choice school.</p>
<p>Over years as a counselor I saw much better results, at Chicago and most top schools, for kids with high GPA/rank, lower by comparison SAT scores. The truth, however, is 3 years ago Chicago accepted 40% of applicants and now accepts less than half that. Ivies that accepted 20% then now also take half that. This is changing the landscape a lot at top 20 schools. Below there is where there is still room for colleges to consider the lopsided.</p>
<p>Well, technically it was 5 years ago that Chicago accepted 40% of applicants – my daughter’s acceptance was in 2006, and I think that year the acceptance rate was around 35% – I haven’t followed developments since.</p>
<p>But I’d agree - my d’s experience at with Chicago admissions might not be the same today. </p>
<p>I do think, however, that the top schools are going to almost always value GPA/rank above test scores … its just hard to see when the test scores also start getting uniformly high. (But admitted students at Chicago always had high scores – back in the 40%+ days, people generally spoke of its “self selecting” applicant pool.)</p>
<p>The bottom line is that while test scores demonstrate potential, GPA/rank are essentially a measure of discipline and work habits. So the GPA becomes more predictive because a kid who doesn’t work up to potential in high school can easily become a kid who doesn’t work up to potential in college.</p>
<p>I think the test scores may be valued much more highly in colleges that are somewhat less selective, because in that environment, high scores might indicate an incoming student with greater potential than the typical enrolling student – and of course the admissions committee and faculty would love to have more high-potential students. So they more be a little more willing to forgive an uneven performance, thinking (perhaps correctly) that such students are likely to excel once they find their niche.</p>
<p>Opusone, my son got forgiven his Latin grades which were B+'s freshman year but sank to a B- (which was a gift by his junior year.) I think Chicago is looking for fit. My son’s scores helped, but I think it was also helpful that he got his best grades in AP courses (and got great scores on the AP exams that he took before senior year.) I also think he wrote an intriguing essay for Chicago and his “Why Chicago” essay was funny and honest. I think he was also very lucky that he got his act together and applied EA, it was much easier to get in this year EA. I know his math teacher wrote a stellar recommendation (for a kid who is not a math guy really) and I suspect his US History teacher wrote him a great letter too. He wrote a very good final paper for him on US foreign policy during the cold war which fit well into the picture of who he was. </p>
<p>For my son the schools with a 25% acceptance rate (Chicago, Vassar, Tufts) all accepted him, while the schools with the 15% or less acceptance rates (Harvard, Brown, Georgetown) all rejected him. With a lower rank I think he would have had fewer choices and I would probably have insisted on finding some match schools. (But he did love American!)</p>
<p>My son has high test scores with a less than stellar GPA (3.4 UW, 4.2 W). Although he has not taken the SAT (he just finished his sophomore year) he had a 231 on the PSAT and an 800 on the Math 2 subject test, 770 on the Latin subject test. He is aiming for Cal Tech or MIT but I know the GPA will be a big hurdle. The main reason for the GPA is that his school heavily weights class participation and he is regularly dinged for being too quiet. He also had homework issues in his freshman year. It’s a shame because he has high A average on all exams and essays and I have no doubt that he has mastered all of the material quite easily. I suspect that those top tier schools would be a very good fit for him but I have my doubts that they will give him a chance. Perhaps the essay should address the low GPA. We are clinging to the hope that near perfect SAT will help forgive all of the B’s in there. He does have his junior year to hopefully raise it.</p>
<p>^I agree with Redroses, the essay is your chance to shine, not to make excuses. I would not count on MIT and Caltech - my older son had great scores and great grades (top 2% of his class) and neither school took him. (He did get into Harvard and Carnegie Mellon’s School of Computer Science so I don’t think there was anything particularly wrong with his application.)</p>
<p>Very interesting redroses. I hadn’t heard that it would be illadvised to try to explain away the negative… in fact, that was excactly what my daughter was planning to do! She too is a lopsided kid but, the opposite of the original poster. SATs are strong in math and writing. Weaker in critical reading. Her GPA hovers 3.6-3.75 but has not hit/maintained high enough to warrant NHS. </p>
<p>We had hired an SAT tutor who actually suggested she write application essays about her standardized testing frustrations as a learner because of weaker than expected results in critical reading . </p>
<p>Can you please elaborate as to why it isn’t a good idea to try to explain away a disappointing score, based on your experiences?</p>