High score, low GPA nightmare - Seeking advice for college list please?

Parents Forum
1

Could we please get your help for a good college list?

After our DS ’18 completed this Spring semester with low GPA, we had to come up with a whole new college list. Many of these schools listed below used to be his “match”, but now they have become “reach”.

He is taking college classes as dual enrollment with 60 credits when graduating next year. He is interested in Computer Science.

His test score is good but his GPA is hurting him very badly.

We are wondering if we can get some help as to whether this list looks impossible or if you have any other modifications/additions. What do you think about this list?

Thank you for your time!

Here are his stats:

ACT Composites: 34 (one-sitting), 36s on both Math/Science
SAT II’s: Math II: 800, Physics (will take in June)
Unweighted GPA: 3.3 => Dual enrollment, all college classes for Junior/Senior

Strong ECs (Paid internship, Eagle Scout, Research, Governor’s program, FTC and others) with lots of community involvement and State/National awards.

We are looking at these schools. Most schools will be early actions.

Huge Reach:
Cornell (ED) => We know this is Huuuuuuuge reach, but his sister currently attends there and it’s his dream school.
Northeastern
U Michigan

Reach:
Georgia Tech
U Rochester
Case Western

Match:
WPI
RPI
U Mass Amherst
Purdue

Safety:
Virginia Tech
U Kentucky

Any help is appreciated. Thank you for your time!

2

Where is your home state? For UMich, you better check if the dual enrolled credits will be counted or not. I know a student from California with dual enrollment at a CC there that none of the credits were accepted by UMich. On the other hand, the uwGPA appeared low for UMich. I am not sure if they will compensate the GPA by college level courses enough for UMich as they consider GPA to be most important (and as important as course rigor).

3

Are you a resident of any of these states? And are finances a concern at all?

You say that these schools might have been matches before this term? What happened THIS term to make that no longer the case?

4

Michigan puts alot of emphasis on GPA (over test scores), so keep that in mind. Hopefully that 3.3 is unweighted and billscho makes a good point, regardless UofM would be a reach It sounds like he reached abit too much with his schedule this year? Does he have a plan for senior fall classes? There are a couple good threads (below is just one) that are long and follow kids with average GPAs and hopefully someone will chime in with suggestions of colleges/unis that take a holistic look at applications and will consider the college classes taken as a HS junior and have admissions offices that aren’t over-run with applicants.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/767486-where-did-your-3-3-3-6-gpa-child-get-in.html

5

@billcsho Thank you for your response. We are in KY. We will check if they take some credits. We are not expecting all the credits to be transferred, but hopefully some general ed ones will transfer.

@thumper1 Thank you for your response. We are in KY. Finances are a concern. We will let DS work as co-op for a year and every summer as paid interns. His GPA after last fall was unweighted 3.6, and now it got lowered.

@momofthreeboys Thank you for your response. The link is helpful. It’s encouraging to see others with similar GPA still end up with a good school. He has plans for the fall, and he is confident he will get better grades.

6

What is his WEIGHTED GPA?

How much can you pay each year?

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The link is helpful. It’s encouraging to see others with similar GPA still end up with a good school.


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Be aware that he may not get a great FA pkg at those schools.


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He has plans for the fall, and he is confident he will get better grades.

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His fall grades won’t matter much. His apps will go and transcripts sent before first semester grades are in.

8

here is my suggestion…if your son does apply ED to Cornell, he needs to have ALL of his other applications either submitted or ready to submit. He does not want to miss deadlines for possible merit awards whochnveyrnoften are well before ED decisions are released.

Plus…if he does not get accepted ED to Cornell, it would be better to have everything else all submitted. It’s no fun writing college applications after a rejection from the top choice school.

If he does get accepted, he can just withdraw all those other applications.

But still…what is it that made his GPA drop? Is this something that could potentially happen again his senior year?

9

@mom2collegekids Thank you for your response. His weighted GPA is around 3.6. This includes all local high school classes + AP classes + college classes (for junior year so far, and this is from an accredited university, not community college). We have already looked at NPC on each school and we can get by with tuition payment as long he works as co-op, summer intern, and FWS.
“Be aware that he may not get a great FA pkg at those schools.” => I think you are absolutely correct. No guarantee.
"His fall grades won’t matter much. " => If he gets deferred, we may send updates, though I am not that hopeful once deferred. Unfortunately, it’s almost too late…

@thumper1 Thanks again for your reply. Yes, we are planning on doing exactly what you suggested. For his GPA drop, there’s always a risk of it happening again. We realize that… We are trying to let him learn “how to study” in this high school junior/senior transition period as he really didn’t have to study much in his freshman/sophomore years. This is turning out to be the hardest thing for him to learn…

10

Your son’s record looks very, very much like that of someone I know, a fairly recent high school grad. My question would be, why do you think there is a gap between demonstrated ability (test scores) and academic achievement? This is an important question.

Is the decline in grades a recent phenomenon, or something that has been consistent over a long period? If recent, it might be important to explore if there is some outside-the-classroom factor. If more long-term, what seems to be the issue? In the case, I mentioned above the student was never motivated to work hard in school. Grades were pretty good because they attended class every day as a matter of course and were smart enough and could write well enough to answer test questions well. But they almost never did homework or put any effort into take-home papers. As a result, a lot of “A” test grades turned into “B”'s on the report card. They were accepted to a couple of schools on your list and attended one of them. They were suspended after freshman year for poor academic performance. In college, unlike high school, most work is done outside the classroom. This student had always been unable/unwilling to do homework and write papers. It caught up with them.

I share this story because getting accepted is not the endgame. Each semester freshman year will cost at least thousands of dollars and probably tens of thousands. Are you confident that your son will be motivated enough to attend classes, study, and complete labs/papers; organized enough to get to class and do all this work; resilient enough to keep working at it if he misses a paper or fails a test? All of these things are essential to success in college. How well would he have done them this year? Enough for you to think he is ready to do them with your family not there on a daily basis and with all the distractions that campus life offers?

If not, you might want to discuss a gap year with your son. The person I’ve been referring took a year off and worked in a national park (with guaranteed and subsidized housing). They grew tremendously from the experience. There are many other things that a student can do, but I do think work is important. Lots of students–especially males–feel disaffected from school. It can be hard for a young person (especially a male) to visualize the rewards that are being promised when they are 15, 16, 17 years old when those rewards (a college degree/good job) are years and years away (very long delayed gratification). It might seem like a huge thing to put off school a whole year, but it goes quickly. It is much harder on a student if they do not succeed freshman year. If they return to the school, their GPA will probably always be low. It can be hard to transfer to a comparable school.

Just giving you something to think about from someone who has tread the same path. Good luck!

11

Federal work study is a form of need based aid. You son will need to have this in his financial aid package to get a FWS job.

But he should be able to work somewhere while in college.

Some schools have co-op programs…and others simply do not. You need to research this.

He should plan to work during every summer…and vacation…and it doesn’t really matter what kind of job he gets.

I guess I’m going to be the voice of concern here. Please try to get to the root of his grade drop. Is it that the courses are too challenging now? Is it that his time management isn’t good? What’s the missing link? Was it one course that was particularly poor…or were all of his grades just lower? This will be important as he transitions to college…as you have noted.

12

His grades aren’t that awful. He has a B+ average unweighted and it seems like he is taking rigorous courses. If he is challenging himself, that will work in his favor. With that said, I would not call RPI a match. I would move it up a category to match/reach. And at the same time, I would not call Northeastern a huge reach. I think it’s within reach. Perhaps a reach but not a huge reach. Are you confusing it with Northwestern?

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         Right, NEU is  less reachy than your georgia tech group. Some of your list is a problem if money is an issue, have you run NPCs? GT for e.g doesn't throw money at OOS kids, is your list made with money in mind? ARe you anxious about admission or merit money?
14

Well…Cornell doeant give merit money…and Northeastern gives few merit awards and only to top admitted students. The rest is need based.

If cost is a factor, I agree, you should run the net price calculators for an estimate of your net costs.

15

@ninjadad Have you considered looking at LACs? Lots of them have a lot more girls than boys attending (like a 60:40 ratio or so) and in the attempt to get more boys, they end up accepting boys with lower scores/GPA/whatevers than girls. THis makes it harder for the girls to get into those LACs, but it’s a boon for boys like yours who are obviously bright and deserve a shot.

16

Go where its free studies prove it doesnt matter much where you attend.

17

@ Ninjadad, Does your son have ADHD ? He sounds very bright but he might be bored. Having him do a gap year is a very good idea. A job where he has to interact with lots of different people would help your son to mature and develop focus. This work experience would be very good for him and help him in college.

18

How do his grades in college courses compare to those in high school courses?

What level college courses has he been taking? I.e. frosh level (which most high school AP courses overlap with, such as single variable calculus), more advanced than frosh level (e.g. multivariable calculus), or below frosh level (remedial, such as math lower than calculus)?

19

What is his weighted GPA with only high school classes? (Not college classes)


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We have already looked at NPC on each school and we can get by with tuition payment as long he works as co-op, summer intern, and FWS

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I wonder if a student doing a co op could do FWS? Could they? Usually a co op is a job, often a full time job. Likely there wouldn’t be a WS job that would fit with that.

Did the NPCs say you’d qualify for FWS? and even so, there’s no guarantee that a school would award him FWS.

I would not count on getting a co op or summer internship until the student is a rising junior. How will costs get paid if your student doesn’t get an internship or co op during frosh or soph years?

20

Whoa, folks. Getting so-so grades in AP/Honors/college classes instead of A’s in regular classes does not mean the student has learned more. The top students will be able to do well in the top classes. There is a reason to use unweighted grades- as some schools do. Being gifted and bored can happen. But knowing how to study and do the work is necessary for college success.

It sounds like your son is learning some hard lessons about doing the work to get the top grades. Good study habits are needed for success in any college, regardless of ability. Your son’s recent gpa may make many of those good schools on your list improbable because there are too many students with better credentials for the finite number of places available. Test scores represent potential while grades reflect the actual performance. Not having as good a knowledge and skills foundation or good study habits can make college difficult for even the brightest/gifted. I wonder if even his college classes challenged him enough to want to do well.

Your son will not be served well by attending an LAC just because he can get in instead of attending a school with better programs in his intended major- such as CS. He will want to stretch his mind and likely would do best where he can do advanced work in his major instead of exhausting the available courses.

Maturity comes later for some. My gifted son did better in college because he was not bored (his senior year had some lesser grades because of not doing the work despite top test scores…). A gap year would not keep your son’s brain active.

I recommend he discusses things with his HS guidance counselor. These professionals would know where kids with his profile have been able to go over the years. You may also want to speak with the GC yourself to ask questions. Remember that HE is in charge by now.

Is this HIS college list? Or is it yours. He needs to be in charge of the process. He may just have to prove himself at one school to be able to transfer to a more elite one. It sounds like his college level work may not be impressive to schools with his gpa.

I will not edit my post but rather leave you with some ideas to consider. Good luck to you and him.