High test scores and low grades

I agree. Getting a diagnosis or a non diagnosis would answer alot of questions. There has to be a discrepancy somewhere. The question is why? Then one can make a decision to do something about it.

Yes, I understand the posters concerns about “other” people playing the extended time game or trying to get a 504 when their kid doesn’t need it etc. But there is a lot of hoops to go through with a kid that really needs it. I really don’t think “many” would want to go through that hell.
All I can say there is a lot we all don’t know. My daughter went to developmental Optometry for treatment for several things. We didn’t want to o medicate since add can be misdiagnosed as other things also. One of the other things it fixed was unlegible handwriting when she was 9,besides the transference and many other issues. Two weeks later, walking in a figure 8 and trying to juggle, her handwriting was like perfect and still is 13 years later. Again, who knew?

https://www.visualsymptomstreatmentcenter.com/vision-therapy-eye-exercises

Tons of kids there diagnosed with Add that have something else but signs are similar. Wouldn’t have believed it if we didn’t go through it. Many people I know went there and I have referred about 30 families. All of their kids issues improved.

Again, getting a proper diagnosis is key when a kid is so lopsided. Not exactly talking about this kid but something to think about

“My original post was pointing out the parents jumping in to diagnose and the question of how to help this child navigate the college search was met by get accommodations and he needs extended testing time.”

Why on earth assume that accommodations automatically mean extended testing time? A kid who achieves “near perfect” test scores doesn’t need extended testing time. But if they are struggling with grades because (for example) they are failing to complete or hand in homework due to executive functioning challenges, then accommodations may certainly be warranted for that issue.

That may involve assistance in ensuring they fill in a planner with details of work that needs to be completed and what the deadlines are. The teacher may need to specifically check in with the kid to ask if they have handed in their homework, or written down what needs to be done from the whiteboard. All very simple things which may be on a 504 or IEP, but we’ve had schools and teachers refuse to comply despite that being illegal. Their attitude was “he’s fine, he’s getting Bs, what’s the problem? We need to focus on the kids who are struggling.”

Well the problem was that he’s not realizing his potential (in our case neuropsych and school district testing showed an ability well into the top 0.1% range). If those problems are fixed, then yes he may actually “thrive in college, maybe even go on to advanced degrees, and amazing careers where they do wonderful things”. If not then he’ll continue to be bored and frustrated and never realize that potential, because his teachers thought they should focus on those kids they considered to be “truly in need”.

I don’t think setting up accomodations for a senior which will not be replicated or adhered to in college is a good idea. He is doing fine now, he may mature more and do even better in college. There really is nothing wrong with being in the middle of the class academically (despite what CC parents think).

@roycroftmom This is a rising junior. Sure this is late in the game, but with support often it’s possible to get ADD and EF issues to a manageable level within 1-2 years. That way the reduced level of support/increased personal responsibility in college can be prepared for rather than it prompting a crisis (failing classes, dropping out).

The red flags for me are that the concerns are emerging from seeing a test prep consultant. Any plan really needs to be driven from the medical side (preferably neuropsych) and it appears that is now OPs focus. I wouldn’t even go near a test prep consultant at this stage, since this student has no problems there, especially in view of the admissions scandal which might lead some to conclude this is all about extra test time.

And in terms of being in the “middle of the class” there’s a big difference between an A- student performing at a B level and and A+ student performing at a B level. I don’t think we know which is the situation in this case and I don’t know if OP does either.

I don’t believe that the crowd here was remotely suggesting the OP advocate for a 504 if one wasn’t warranted.

Several posters simply stating ADD/ADHD doesn’t cure itself or go away isn’t the same thing. It was also suggested that ADHD can be misdiagnosed and I think all to some extent agree that in come cases it is over-diagnosed or too easily diagnosed.

By law, the OP can request a 504 evaluation meeting with a diagnosis. The school will have to accommodate. At this point in the year they may be unable to. Having an evaluation does not mean a child will be offered a 504, it may determined that the student doesn’t need it. A school is NOT required to give a 504, just to provide the evaluation.

That said, what I don’t hear from the OP is what the student thinks of his performance, how the student feels. Does he indicate he is struggling, etc. Which was the point of my earlier question. What specifically is causing the low grades? That is diagnostic too. Has he always been introverted, or is that increasing? Have the grades always been in this range or have they dropped? From the schools side they do need to understand where the struggle actually is, if there is struggle. That can be difficult. In the case of my youngest it really took the additional testing and deeper testing.

Yes, all of this can be perfectly normal. A 3.1 is nothing to be ashamed of and many kids and parents would be over the moon with it.

But. As a parent who felt that the ADHD diagnosis was tossed out like candy, it took my S19 as a drowning sophomore asking me to please be tested. He’d been “accused” of it all his life but had managed relatively well, until he didn’t. AP World History was his tipping point. He hates his diagnosis. Hates taking meds. They have caused their own set of issues. But they do help him and he recognizes that.

I was determined to do better then next go round and upon seeing some similar signs, and some very different, had the youngest tested. But it wasn’t the right approach (not full neuro) or diagnosis and may have done more harm than good. As with the first, in his case ASD/Aspergers had been suggested (or assumed by a few teachers) but it took a spectacular nose dive in grades and social withdrawal end of his sophomore year and most of junior year to make us go hmmm…there is more going on. In both cases, the school never ever suggested any LD testing (at least not after 1st grade with S17). S19 had plenty of IQ testing but LD? No. Both of my kids were drowning (and they’d agree) and no one saw them.

Why? Because they were solid B/B+ students who didn’t cause trouble. Ok…maybe S17 caused a bit of trouble but that just got him kicked into honors classes. I had teachers arguing with me for S19 to stay in AP World when clearly he was having similar issues because he was “capable”. But in both cases, we the parents, could see they were struggling when others could not and had to fight for help for the youngest.

I am not sure I hear struggling here, but a mom wanting to understand the variance and to have options for her son in college to be sucessful. That’s ok. Without the note of prior diagnosis I am fairly sure no one would jump to retesting. But given that there was, combined with introvert and shyness. it may be hard for this student to verbalize what is going on. Some kids are just good test takers and yes, not motivated to get more than a B. They may be capable, just not interested. And sometimes there is more to the story.

Listening to what the school says in a 504 evaluation can be very eye opening to the parent. What I will say and I think most are echoing is that if the ADD/ADHD diagnosis is from the pediatrician or family doc, going through a full neuro testing will provide much better answers and clearer diagnosis if any is to be had.

I don’t know and can’t pretend to say what the answer is here, maybe extended test time is warranted, maybe it isn’t. An educational coach, which is likely not covered by insurance and may not be an option, would probably help if performance is linked to ADHD and organizational issues. But he may also be a totally normal kid who just isn’t into it. None of us can know.

Specific to college.

If the budget is 20k, the student can take 5500 their first year and can reasonably be expected to save some over the summers, up to 3K. An ADHD student may or may not be well served by working while in school and I hesitate to recommend that at least first semester. Practically speaking that gives you a budget of $28k to work with. If the EFC is over that amount, there will be no financial aid offered.

Which unfortunately will fall short of costs at most schools. In state public will almost always be the best deal for anyone. In some states that may be at the 28k or under mark, in some it may be over. There are absolutely schools that will offer some merit monies for high test scores if he stays above a 3.0 but it may not be high merit and they may well have much higher starting price tags. Generally speaking if you look at “less” popular and desirable states (mid west, Wyoming) the incentives are higher and tuition lower. Depending on the state you are in there may be exchanges available with other states for various tuition discounts.

For example, Northern Arizona University would offer 7k annually at your son’s current stats. Their estimated COA is $41 including personal expenses so you’d get down to 34. Which is still over budget. University of Wyoming has a starting cost of 33k including personal expenses. Your son would qualify for their full Rocky Mountain award which is around 10K, bringing U of Wy down to 23. So there are options…but you need to shop around. A lot.

Run Net Price Calculators til your fingers fall off. I’m not joking. They really are your best friend and stats based scholarships are often published right on schools websites.

If you can provide more info, many on CC can help you come up with an affordable list but it will have limitations. Even if your son had a higher gpa…getting into the 20’s in anything other than your own state school, is difficult at best for the average kid.

That is assuming he has such issues, rather than the far more common immaturity affecting many 15 year old boys. If his teachers or others had concerns, I might worry. The test prep people? Not at all. Kids do mature at different rates, and it isn’t always a disability, though it seems everyone on this website wants it to be. I know plenty of folks who were mediocre in high school and excelled in medical school, where they enjoyed and cared about the topics.

Could we stop saying a B student has low grades? Seriously? If the kid were C minus, D,F range I get it. But are grades so inflated now that a B is a disaster? Not all schools inflate grades, and a B might be quite solid at this school. One of my kids had a 3.2 in high school, and sailed to a 4.0 in college, where she found the work much easier and the grading more lenient. Not all schools are the same.

@bamamom2021 I couldn’t agree with your post more! My oldest S is currently a junior and what I would call a good all-rounder. 3.7 GPA but sitting closer to 3.0 this semester, slightly above average test scores so far, only one AP class, JV cross country (but not varsity or captain), volunteers at church. What is wrong with a child that is good (not great)?

My second son has autism and so I know what it’s like to have a child with significant neurological differences. I am thrilled that my oldest son is a well rounded, well adjusted kid. And he will thrive at whichever school he goes to.

Those numbers are really high COA estimates. His tuition would be about $7000 per year and r&b another~$10k. Everything else is cheap cheap cheap.

I wouldn’t worry about a kid whose test scores and GPA are consistent with one another. Kids that get B’s are just fine!

It’s when there is an obvious discrepancy between a student’s testing ability and academic performance when it might be worth it to look and see if there is another issue at play.

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/jessica-glazer/adhd-ceo-career_b_8124154.html

There are many more. It’s not a curse but can be an advantage also.

https://www.amazon.com/You-Mean-Lazy-Stupid-Crazy/dp/0743264487

This is a great read for anyone but especially one’s that might want to learn more about this subject.

Learning to adjust is key. No one is saying that getting “B” is bad. There are kids that are high grades and very low tests scores also… This to me would be a red flag also. Again the question is why?

A friend had scores similar to OP’s son’s - 3.1 gpa and 34 ACT - and his gpa was because he often didn’t turn in homework in classes he didn’t like. He had some mixed results for college and didn’t get into Purdue, got into the flagship but not direct admit to engineering. He got a pretty nice FA package at SUNY Buffalo (OOS).

It’s hard for schools to overlook that lower gpa because if it is because the student wasn’t interested in a class and just didn’t do the work, how are they going to do in college when they’ll be required to take some classes they might not like?

A test is a sprint. An AP class is a bit of marathon. Lots of work and grinding. The homework and problem sets. Etc.

It’s not always “it must be a LD”. The commitment and late nights for a very smart student to get the 4.0 is a skill. Some people do great in the NFL combine or skills tests. Some do better over the long haul of work required to be great for a whole season.

Sure it can be a LD. It can also be he doesn’t want to go that extra mile. Lord knows I didn’t either. There’s a difference between really smart and a really great student. Have a talk about commitment, stress management and motivation.

So many good insights here…Thank you again. I can’t figure out how to do the quotes thing, but:

“The red flags for me are that the concerns are emerging from seeing a test prep consultant. Any plan really needs to be driven from the medical side (preferably neuropsych) and it appears that is now OPs focus.”

Our test prep consultant is not pushing for more money, and they adamantly thought he did not have AD/HD even though the doctors diagnosed him…in fact they don’t think he needs much prep at all. They think he will do very well according to mock tests he took.

“I wouldn’t even go near a test prep consultant at this stage, since this student has no problems there, especially in view of the admissions scandal which might lead some to conclude this is all about extra test time.”

This is not all about extra test time. It is not something that came out of nowhere. He had a 504 plan in the past for at least 5 years. We made the foolish mistake of thinking he was “cured” of his diagnosis (he’s not) and that he was learning to adjust (he’s not there yet). If the school would actually look at his history and the documents we sent from his past school 504 and his Doctor’s report, they would understand where this is coming from. It is very frustrating at this point, as they have not responded to my third request for accommodations this school year.

If this is public school, there should be a maximum number of days for a response to your request (assuming it was in writing). You may wish to research.

So…the school does not “have” to. Generally speaking most public schools will take the request seriously but privates have no such obligation. If the school disagrees, they can fight it. If the refuse, the school district must provide the parent with notice of their procedural rights under Section 504. That then becomes a matter of elevating and deciding whether it is worth the fight.


Section 504 is a civil rights law that prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities. Section 504 ensures that the child with a disability has equal access to an education. The child may receive accommodations and modifications.

Unlike the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), Section 504 does not require a public school to provide an individualized educational program (IEP) that is designed to meet a child’s unique needs and provide the child with educational benefit. Under Section 504, fewer procedural safeguards are available to the child with a disability and the child’s parents than under IDEA.


Who can refer a child for consideration for evaluation under Section 504?
Anyone can refer a child for evaluation under Section 504. However, while anyone can make a referral, such as parents or a doctor, OCR has stated in a staff memorandum that “the school district must also have reason to believe that the child is in need of services under Section 504 due to a disability” (OCR Memorandum, April 29, 1993). Therefore, a school district does not have to refer or evaluate a child under Section 504 solely upon parental demand. The key to a referral is whether the school district staff suspects that the child is suffering from a mental or physical impairment that substantially limits a major life activity and is in need of either regular education with supplementary services or special education and related services [letter to Mentink, 19 IDELR 1127 (OCR) 1993]. If a parent requests a referral for evaluation, and the school district refuses, the school district must provide the parent with notice of their procedural rights under Section 504.


Who decides whether a student is qualified and eligible for services under Section 504?
According to the federal regulations: “…placement decisions are to be made by a group of persons who are knowledgeable about the child, the meaning of the evaluation data, placement options, least restrictive environment requirements, and comparable facilities” [34 C.F.R. §104.35(c)(3)].

As a parent or legal guardian, you have the right to:

Receive notice regarding the identification, evaluation and/or placement of your child;
Examine relevant records pertaining to your child;
Request an impartial hearing with respect to the district’s actions regarding the identification evaluation, or placement of your child, with an opportunity for the parent/guardian to participate in the hearing, to have representation by an attorney, and have a review procedure;
File a complaint with your school District Section 504 Coordinator, who will investigate the allegations regarding Section 504 matters other than your child’s identification, evaluation and placement.
File a complaint with the appropriate regional Office for Civil Rights. For additional information, contact: U.S. Department of Education, Washington, D.C. 20202-1100
(800) 421-3481
www.ed.gov/ocr
E-mail: ocr@ed.gov