hispanic-ness

<p>tracemhunter...yes but no...private schools gets some federal grants, which they dont want to give up. However, I'm not sure if they need to have the quotas, or if its just a PR thing for better rankings.</p>

<p>one major thing nowadays concerning private schools having to listen to the federal gov't is the solomon amendment...private schools have to let military recruiters in (even though they discriminate) or lose their federal money. NYU brought it to the Supreme Court.</p>

<p>btw, isn't literal affirmative action illegal? Like, your not allowed to have an AA policy or call it that?</p>

<p>You're allowed to have affirmative action programs, you just can't have quotas (they are illegal)</p>

<p>Quotas are technically illegal, but everyone knows that's what the schools do anyway, i.e. they aim to have a certain percentage of the class be made up of URMs (by URM I mean the blacks and hispanics)</p>

<p>Indirectly, schools do practice quotas. This is why URMs have an even bigger advantage in the ED round than in RD, once the school captures its "quota" of URM (i.e the minimum number of URMs they need to look good), it becomes harder for others to get in and they start getting held closer to the same standards as whites and asians, though of course they still have it easier.</p>

<p>are asian women considered part of the URM?</p>

<p>"are asian women considered part of the URM?"</p>

<p>No, and definitely not at NYU, just take a walk by the Stern school and you'll see that Asian Americans, male or femeal are not a URM in any sense.</p>

<p>What about legacies? They have shown to have statistically much lower scores than the rest of the student body yet enjoy higher admittance percentages. Most of them, of course, are white and come from a middle- or upper-class background.</p>

<p>Anyways, the AA program in colleges is implemented as a way to balance out educational disadvantages that URMs usually experience: broken homes, underfunded crime-ridden schools, bigger proportion of indifferent/underqualified teachers, lack of role models, lack of tutors, etc.</p>

<p>Legacies do not have statistically much lower scores at all. Their acceptance rates are higher, but the stats they have are usually the same as the rest of the class. </p>

<p>Most of the people benefitting from AA programs are not the type you mentioned, they are usually affluent blacks and hispanics, trust me, I went to boarding school with some of them.</p>

<p>In regards to legacies, yes they do have much lower scores than the rest of the student body. A recent article in New Yorker magazine expanded on this (among other things).</p>

<p>No legacies do not have much lower scores. This used to be the case in the days of GW Bush when eveyone went to their father's school, but not anymore. My GC even showed me this one recent article from Yale where it showed legacies actually had a higher SAT score than the regular acceptances. I know they still have an edge, but legacy stats are nowhere near as bad as those of URMs, thus the legacy advantage is comparativley very small, and a good portion of them would have gotten in anyway. The same can't be said for URMs. </p>

<p>Can you provide a link to the NYer article or something else?</p>

<p>Check this out. A US Dept. of Education study shows that legacies on average have SAT scores that are only 35 points lower than everyone else (this was for Harvard). URMs get in with scores that are 150-200 points lower. </p>

<p><a href="http://surj.stanford.edu/2003/pdfs/LegacyAdmissions.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://surj.stanford.edu/2003/pdfs/LegacyAdmissions.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here's the link, though the article is not in its entirety:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/critics/content/articles/051010crat_atlarge%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.newyorker.com/critics/content/articles/051010crat_atlarge&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here's the relevant excerpt:</p>

<p>I once had a conversation with someone who worked for an advertising agency that represented one of the big luxury automobile brands. He said that he was worried that his client’s new lower-priced line was being bought disproportionately by black women. He insisted that he did not mean this in a racist way. It was just a fact, he said. Black women would destroy the brand’s cachet. It was his job to protect his client from the attentions of the socially undesirable.</p>

<p>This is, in no small part, what Ivy League admissions directors do. They are in the luxury-brand-management business, and “The Chosen,” in the end, is a testament to just how well the brand managers in Cambridge, New Haven, and Princeton have done their job in the past seventy-five years. In the nineteentwenties, when Harvard tried to figure out how many Jews they had on campus, the admissions office scoured student records and assigned each suspected Jew the designation j1 (for someone who was “conclusively Jewish”), j2 (where the “preponderance of evidence” pointed to Jewishness), or j3 (where Jewishness was a “possibility”). In the branding world, this is called customer segmentation. In the Second World War, as Yale faced plummeting enrollment and revenues, it continued to turn down qualified Jewish applicants. As Karabel writes, “In the language of sociology, Yale judged its symbolic capital to be even more precious than its economic capital.” No good brand manager would sacrifice reputation for short-term gain. The admissions directors at Harvard have always, similarly, been diligent about rewarding the children of graduates, or, as they are quaintly called, “legacies.” In the 1985-92 period, for instance, Harvard admitted children of alumni at a rate more than twice that of non-athlete, non-legacy applicants, despite the fact that, on virtually every one of the school’s magical ratings scales, legacies significantly lagged behind their peers. Karabel calls the practice “unmeritocratic at best and profoundly corrupt at worst,” but rewarding customer loyalty is what luxury brands do. Harvard wants good graduates, and part of their definition of a good graduate is someone who is a generous and loyal alumnus. And if you want generous and loyal alumni you have to reward them. Aren’t the tremendous resources provided to Harvard by its alumni part of the reason so many people want to go to Harvard in the first place? The endless battle over admissions in the United States proceeds on the assumption that some great moral principle is at stake in the matter of whom schools like Harvard choose to let in—that those who are denied admission by the whims of the admissions office have somehow been harmed. If you are sick and a hospital shuts its doors to you, you are harmed. But a selective school is not a hospital, and those it turns away are not sick. Élite schools, like any luxury brand, are an aesthetic experience—an exquisitely constructed fantasy of what it means to belong to an élite —and they have always been mindful of what must be done to maintain that experience.</p>

<p>In the nineteen-eighties, when Harvard was accused of enforcing a secret quota on Asian admissions, its defense was that once you adjusted for the preferences given to the children of alumni and for the preferences given to athletes, Asians really weren’t being discriminated against. But you could sense Harvard’s exasperation that the issue was being raised at all. If Harvard had too many Asians, it wouldn’t be Harvard, just as Harvard wouldn’t be Harvard with too many Jews or pansies or parlor pinks or shy types or short people with big ears.</p>

<p>Most of that stuff you cited all refers to the past, and I'm talking about TODAY/modern times, where the difference between legacies and non legacies is only 35 pts. I don't dispute that legacies have an edge, but it's not nearly as big as the one URMs get. Being black or hispanic is a far larger advantage than being a legacy.</p>