History Major Chances????

Student Lounge International Students
1

Do I have a chance at gaining admission to Oxford’s History and Politics program?

Here are my scores.

SAT (I took the new SAT):1530

AP Scores:
AP Euro:5
AP World:5
AP US History:5
AP NSL:5
AP Human Geography:5

SAT II Scores:
SAT II US History: 800
SAT II World History: 800

I’m quite the history buff :slight_smile:

My grades are not that great; at only a 3.75 GPA unweighted/4.3 Weighted. But from what I have heard, grades are not really a huge consideration for UK schools; is that true?

Thanks in advance!

2

Please take into account that I’m currently attending secondary school in the US. Thanks again!

3

Fair warning: faux modesty is irritating. Posting perfect scores and asking “do I have a chance” will drive even mild-mannered helpful types to want to make smart-alecky replies. I have erased at least 4 so far.

Be aware that every part of going to university in the UK requires you to be independent and resourceful. If you haven’t already read the website obsessively, I recommend that you do so now. Almost everything you need to know is there.

Have you picked a college?

Have you tried the sample HAT papers?

Oxford will not be interested in your GPA

HisPol is quite a small course- they take about 50 people / year. Applicants have been asked at interview if they would accept a place in History if it were offered instead of HisPol.

Do some homework on writing a Personal Statement (plenty of info online). Remember that the purpose of the essay is to demonstrate that you understand what the course is and that you are a good candidate for the course. Typically you reference substantive subject-related reading that you have done outside the classroom.

Keep an eye on the papers you are writing this spring - you will have to submit a piece of graded writing with your application, and as the deadline is Oct 15, you may not have something interesting to submit that early in the term in the autumn.

Oxford admissions is a series of hurdles. Once you clear one it becomes less important. Test scores (APs & HAT), LoR and PS are used to make the interview cut. Once at interview the playing field is essentially level (though I have heard of aptitude tests being a factor in the final deliberation). There is a lot of info on the interview online (check both YouTube and iTunes as well as UCAS & the Oxford site). As you may know, the interview is a cross between an oral exam and a tutorial. There is no correlation between how you think the interview went and the outcome: I have seen people come out in bits, certain that there was no hope, and get offers, and equally people who felt that they sailed through it, loved it, knew it was just right for them and not get an offer.

Be sure to figure out where you will take the HAT early- unless you live in one of a handful of cities, it can take a time. Your school can register to be a test center, but it’s a hassle and takes time. Obviously, you can also travel to a test center- but again, it’s a hassle and takes time.

Any other questions, feel free to come on back!

4

I would recommend taking some more APs next year. You have a lot of 5s, but mainly in different brands of history. Human Geog is regarded as a weaker AP. What is NSL?

Grades per se are not that important, but your teacher recommendation is.

5

Good point, @Conformist1688. Comp Gov in particular is actually useful for the first year politics module, and you might as well pair it with US Gov.

6

FWIW, my son is an offer holder from the US for Maths/Comp Sci who will be attending Oxford in the fall and his college has not seen nor requested any grades from him other than his AP/ACT scores.

As @collegemom3717 said, there are only a handful of testing centers in the US for the Oxford aptitude tests - we live relatively close to one so it wasn’t that big a deal for us. But definitely worth some diligence on your part to sort that out early and make sure you are registered on time. It is also relatively expensive - I think it cost us $320 for the MAT.

Would also encourage your reference writer to do some research on the Oxford system so they can speak to how you might fit in. My son had the benefit of having his reference written by a teacher at his school who was an Oxford grad. He was actually interviewed by his teacher’s old tutor when he was there in December.

7

@HazeGrey makes a really good point- UCAS & Oxford both post some guidelines for writing the LoR. It can only help (though I do know of some very last-minute LoRs, written by people w/ no prep or experience and the student still made it through to interview).

@HazeGrey, that is pretty cool that your son interviewed with his teacher’s old tutor. The CompSci group at Oxford are a really nice bunch- your son should have a wonderful experience :slight_smile:

8

@collegemom3717 except that his teacher said her tutor was pretty nasty back in her time! That interview was at his randomly assigned 2nd college, not the one he will be attending.

He’s very excited and really looking forward to it. A group of about 25 US offer holders have connected on line and have been getting to know each other. Also fortunate that two of the kids he connected with during interviews also received offers at his college. It will be a great experience for him and I think he’s going to have a lot of fun too.

9

@HazeGrey Thanks for the info!

I will probably be the first person in my school who will be studying abroad. As such, the educators seem to not have had any experience dealing with a student who wants to study overseas…is that okay?

@Conformist1688

AP NSL- National State and Local Government

I have already taken all of the AP courses that are related to my major.
Should I take some that are unrelated to my major? (I have heard that UK schools are generally only looking for AP courses that are related to your major, though I could most certainly be wrong.)

@collegemom3717 Thanks for the insightful info!

By “a place in history,” do you mean a generic History major? (If so, I never knew one existed :D)

:

10

Subjects like English Lang/Lit or foreign languages at AP are useful for history applicants too. Basically, domestic applicants will have three, occasionally four, A levels, and only one of them will be history.

Yes, of course you can apply for straight History (I wouldn’t use the word generic), and there are actually more places available and it is (a bit) easier to get in than History and Politics, if only because with the latter course you have to make a good case for yourself with both departments.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/history?wssl=1

Are you thinking of any other UK universities as well?

11

@bourgeois take a look at this as well. A bit dense but it gives you very good background on how the numbers worked out for last year’s applicants.

https://www.merton.ox.ac.uk/sites/merton.ox.ac.uk/files/attachments/Information_for_History_Applicants_2016.pdf

My son didn’t have any help from his school other than the teacher reference, so it’s definitely something that you can do on your own. Lots of good info on the Oxford web site for international applicants.

12

That must be what your school calls AP US Gov, b/c there is no AP NSL

Remembering that you apply specifically to a subject or course, last year ~1000 people applied for History, and 240 places were offered (~23%), and ~315 / 41 for HisPol (~13% of applicants)

@Conformist1688 is right that the challenge of a dual honors course is that both subjects have to agree to admitting you- that’s part of why the History + Politics number fluctuates: they have an upper limit, but they only take as many students as they agree on (tbh 41 is on the low side). btw, how do you know that there is a History & Politics course but not that there is a History course?!

Be aware that you don’t have a major, you have a subject. If you do History and Politics, you will take:

First year:

=A period in either British or European History (you choose from a list of periods, such as 1500-1700)
=Either Introduction to the Theory of Politics or Theories of the State
=Optional subject: choice of Quantification in History, Approaches to History, Historiography: Tacitus to Weber, one of the History special topics (this is fun- about 20 topics, such as Revolution and Empire in France 1789-1815), or foreign language text (ie, you study it in the original language, so you have to already know that language) (Herodotus; Einhard & Asser; Tocqueville; Meinecke and Kehr; Machiavelli; Diaz del Moral; Trotsky)
=The practice of politics

Second & Third year:

=A period of the history of the British Isles
=A period of European/World history
=Any two of the five core subjects in Politics: Comp Gov, British Politics and Government since 1900,Theory of Politics, International Relations, Political Sociology
=A combination of either 1 Pol + 2 His or 2 His + 1 Pol special subjects
=A 20K word thesis in either History or Politics (whichever you have done less of by third year)

That is all the courses you will take.

You can look up what you take if you do straight history here: https://www.history.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/history/documents/media/Prelims%2BHistory%2Bhandbook.pdf

13

I’m sorry for the late reply; I have been very busy in the past week.

@Conformist1688

Besides Oxford, I’m also looking at: ICL, UCL, and Edinburgh. Any advice on these schools would be greatly appreciated! :slight_smile:

Also, I’m not really good at AP Lit and Lan…would it be okay if I didn’t take them? (In other words, would not taking said classes significantly impact my chance at gaining admission)

@collegemom3717

Thanks for the info!

I guess it could be attributed the fact that Oxford doesn’t seem to endorse straight history quite as much as the other subject courses.

In my opinion, History and Politics seem to be more of a match for me; though, I’d be willing to take any History course should the first option fail.

@HazeGrey

The #'s really helped me get an idea as to the competitiveness of each subject course. Also, I took a look at the Oxford website and it gave a whole lot of great information! Thanks for the insightful reply! :slight_smile:

14

UCL is an excellent option, and Edinburgh is good too. The only ICL I’m aware of is Imperial, which doesn’t offer history - it’s science only.

You don’t HAVE to do those subjects, they’re just popular for the kinds of students interested in history. I do think that some addiitional non-history APs would be advisable.

Any UK history (with or without politics) course will involve a fair amount of essay writing, and Oxford especially so.

Do you have any special areas in history you’re interested in? I’m not as informed about the politics side, so I can’t really help there.

You can apply for five courses via UCAS.

15

@Conformist1688

I’d love to take AP Psychology, AP Environmental Science, and AP Art History as well. Would these courses be helpful?

Please pardon my typo; I was thinking about another subject and accidentally typed “ICL.” :smiley:

It isn’t so much the course as it is the professor. The professor that teaches AP Lan and Lit at our school is extremely harsh on the grades; unless one is an expert on the matter, one will most likely get a 3 or a 4.

Based on the various AP courses that I have taken, I think History and Politics would be a rather good fit; though, straight history is still a better choice than other subject courses. (If I were forced to choose an alternative, that is)

@HazeGrey @collegemom3717

Any additional advice from you guys would be helpful as well! :slight_smile:

16

Your teacher doesn’t give you your AP score. A tough teacher can be a good thing in an AP as you go in veey prepared.

17

Art History is great. Psych and Env Science are both regarded as weaker APs (as is Human Geography which you already have), so would not be optimum choices.

Agree with Vicki - can you fnd out what range of scores students at your school usually get at AP, compared to grades in the class? The exam is marked externally - that’s why UK universities like APs.

18

For HisPol/History the ones that will help are:

  1. Directly relevant: Euro, US, World, Comp Gov, US Gov
  2. Skill relevant: essay based exams: LIt, Lang
  3. Languages: If you have a language strong enough to work with original material (more for History), especially Latin, French, German, Russian

None of the others will make any difference. For example, a recent HisPol student applied with: World, US Gov, Lit, Lang & ES (all 5s), and predicted 5s for USH, Euro, Latin and Comp Gov. Offer was 5s on US & Euro, and either Latin or Comp Gov.

Fwiw, (informally) World is not seen as a strong AP at Oxford- too much of a survey course.

19

@VickiSoCal

I know the AP exams are scored externally.

@Conformist1688

Thanks for the info!

I looked into the scores and found that my school’s average score was a 3 (which is average, though certainly not a score that I’d want to put onto my college app).

@collegemom3717

I cannot express my gratitude enough for helping me so much in my journey towards an academic institution that is right for me. :slight_smile:

I have revised my college app accordingly. Please take a look to see if this is enough.

SAT:1530

AP Scores:
AP Euro:5
AP World:5
AP US History:5
AP NSL:5
AP Human Geography:5
AP Comparative Government:5 (Predicted)

SAT II Scores:
SAT II US History: 800
SAT II World History: 800

HAT: Excellent Score (Predicted)

Recommendations: Excellent (Predicted)

Colleges: Oxford (Straight History), Edinburgh (Straight History), and UCL (Straight History)

Based on what I have concluded, the chance of me getting into at least one of these programs is quite high. Please let know if I’m wrong.

20

@Conformist1688

I’d love to have your input as well! :-bd