<p>I am currently a prospective student at both of these schools and I looking for some insight on them. I've narrowed it down to pretty much these two and i wondering how they compare in the following categories:</p>
<p>quality of academics, specifically the economics depts
Quality of life amongst students (social scene etc)
academic caliber of the students
Prestige(please don't freak out) and name recognition </p>
<p>thank in advance</p>
<p>From Princeton Review</p>
<p>Fordham University
Academics:
Fordham University is two schools in one. First, there’s the school’s long-established campus in the Rose Hill section of the Bronx, which might best be regarded as Fordham’s ‘conventional’ undergraduate site. Then there’s the newer campus at Manhattan’s Lincoln Center, which is “very small and geared toward theater and dance students [though the school says the largest number of majors is liberal arts].” Students are adamant that “they are two different schools going in different directions with different student bodies and different academic focuses.” The campuses do share a number of common traits, however. Each is a Jesuit school “with really big core requirements” that provide undergrads with “a strong background in a broad area of academics before actually specializing in one area, thereby educating the whole mind.” The Jesuit influence is also seen in the way each school “promotes social awareness, caring for others, and expanding one’s knowledge of the world and helping find one’s contribution to it.” Each school, of course, benefits from a city location that provides near limitless opportunities for networking, internships, and enriching extracurricular experiences. Rose Hill’s students praise Fordham’s College of Business (“the school for business professionals”), its pre-law and pre-medical programs, and its psychology program; undergrads at Lincoln Center boast of “one of the best theater departments in the country” and "a great dance program.</p>
<p>Student Body:
tudents on the Rose Hill campus tend to be “from an upper-class home in New Jersey, Connecticut, or Long Island[and] wear sandals and jeans and polos, with some popped collars sprinkled in…Off campus (in the Bronx) they stick out like a sore thumb.” Many are business and communications majors who favor conservative politics and a businesslike approach to academics. Students at Lincoln Center are more diverse; one writes, “there is no such thing as a typical student at Lincoln Center. Most students who choose to go here are liberal and artsy (writers, dancers, actors). Students tend to be very creative in their clothing choices.” The majority of students here are women, and "most of the boys are gay.</p>
<p>Campus Life:
Fordham’s Rose Hill Campus “is truly beautiful, and the location is pretty much the best of both worlds-the city as well as plenty of green.” Here, “life centers around the weekends. Most people go out to local bars, leaving no one on campus on a Tuesday, Friday, or Saturday night…There are numerous events going on on campus all the time, although many of these events are based in religion or politics.” Students are also “very involved…in intramural sports teams as well as performing arts groups.” There’s also the city, of course; you can reach it in 15 minutes by Metro North train, or you can save a few bucks and ride the subway. Expect the trip downtown to take about 30 minutes. Closer by is Arthur Avenue, the Bronx’s own (and, many say, much better) version of Manhattan’s Little Italy. Life at Lincoln Center is understandably less campus-centric; no campus can compete with all that downtown New York City has to offer. One student explains, “The bar and restaurant scene at Lincoln Center is very popular because of the variety of places to go in Manhattan. Dorm parties are not as usual as I would imagine them to be at other colleges. Students from all…of Fordham come to Lincoln Center to set out for their various night activities because of the campus’s proximity to everything…I try to take advantage of the incredible amount of things to do here that one isn’t able to do in most other places, but things are very expensive.” Lincoln Center dorms "are like apartments, which I know is a definite attraction for many students.</p>
<p>College Of The Holy Cross</p>
<p>Academics:
The College of the Holy Cross is a smallish, “rigorous” Jesuit school “that does an incredible job of giving its students a very broad education [and] preparing them with the tools for the real world.” Every student must complete a broad liberal arts curriculum. Regardless of your major, you’ll take courses in history, literature, religion, philosophy, foreign language, math, science, and art. In additional, all first-year students take part in full-year seminars that are heavy on intellectual development. There’s an array of exciting and often exotic study abroad options. The semester in Washington, D.C. receives a lot of praise. Internship programs are also abundant, and students also have access to a “large and strong alumni network.” “Holy Cross alums are insane” about their old alma mater, and they love to hire the latest batch of graduates. “The emphasis here is on teaching and learning, not research,” and the academic atmosphere is intense. “At Holy Cross, the professors will keep you busy throughout the week.” “Classes are hard,” warns a biology major. Good grades are hard to come by. “You have to work your tail off to just get an A-.” At the same time, students love their “caring” and “amazing” professors, and they point out that small class sizes provide opportunities for meaningful faculty-student interaction. Profs are “very accessible outside the classroom,” too. In fact, they “almost force you to get to know them.” “If you show interest and work hard, you will do well,” concludes an English major</p>
<p>Student Body:
Holy Cross is a “remarkably” welcoming campus. “This is the most friendly campus you will ever step foot on,” claims a senior. You can find students from just about every state, but the majority tends to come from New England and the mid-Atlantic states. Students tend to be Catholic, though there are certainly plenty of people with different religions and with no religion at all. “Religion is not a major issue” here, really. Atypical students exist, and they “fit in just fine,” but most of the undergraduate population at HC does kind of fit a certain mold. “The typical student is upper-middle-class, white, somewhat preppy, and athletic.” That student is “smart,” “hardworking,” and probably “from the suburbs.” “If you dress really preppy all the time, party hard on the weekends, and study in the rest of your remaining time, this is the school for you.”</p>
<p>Campus Life:
There’s “a lively social scene” on this “beautiful” hilltop campus. There are more than 80 clubs and organizations, and virtually everyone is “active in something, whether it be a varsity team, intramurals, student government, clubs, the newspaper, theater, or music.” Studying is also an exceedingly common pastime. “The libraries and study rooms are often packed with students at night.” On the weekends, however, “Holy Cross is a very big party school.” “Although I would not consider Holy Cross to be the most outrageously fun school,” relates a senior, “the student body at Holy Cross likes to drink.” “People work hard during the week, and they like to let loose and have fun.” Parties generally occur “in dorm rooms or at nearby off-campus housing.” “Bars are popular,” too, and usually “cheap.” Students are also quick to call our attention to the fact that there is plenty to do on the weekends besides drinking. “If that’s not your scene, there are so many other things to do,” reports one student. There is everything “from going to plays, to sporting events, dances, karaoke, and stand-up comedians-all right here on campus.” The food is probably the biggest complaint we hear. “Stick to the pasta,” recommends a senior. The surrounding city of Worcester is home to “great” grub, but it’s kind of sketchy otherwise. Luckily, “trips to Boston and Providence are extremely feasible, and the school has free buses to these locations on the weekends.”</p>
<p>Pierre…enough already with Princeton Review…nobody wants that here. People can read that there online if they want to. Its not helpful here. What they want is another opinion. </p>
<p>To the OP: I can’t speak for “the Cross” (Holy Cross), except by reputation which is very good. They have slightly higher SAT scores…but Fordham has gained leaps and bounds and is fast approaching them. The Cross is a quintessential LAC, small and unto itself. A great education. But its apples and oranges from Fordham. (that means that you have two distinct choices…which is good.)</p>
<p>Fordham is a fabulous academic school. Stellar faculty which is improving all the time. Check out the departments you are interested in to see their credentials. Its a major national research university climbing the ranks rapidly. Two campuses (three if you count Westchester…but that is a graduate location, not undergraduate). Lincoln Center is a smaller version of NYU, urban and very “manhattan”. Lots of building plans there…including a new law school building. Kids who go there love it. The Bronx has Rose Hill which is very classical…gothic buildings and open green lawns and lots of trees. Football stadium, basketball arena and lots of dorms…of varying shapes and sizes and themes. Fordham plays Holy Cross every year in football, where they are in the Patriot League. (basketball is Div 1-A and in the super competitive A10). </p>
<p>Some kids will pick The Cross over Fordham because it is slightly higher in perception of prestige…but not by much. A hair’s difference, really. Some kids will pick Fordham because its New York, particularly in the Bronx where they get the best of two worlds…the city with a classic campus. </p>
<p>Economics at Fordham is strong…and includes an undergraduate and graduate International Political Economy program. Both schools are Jesuit so you will get the same ethics and ethos. </p>
<p>Fordham draws more and more kids nationally and internationally. There are some very, very smart kids at Fordham…you will be very challenged. Its also competitive…and they still rank students each year for each class, in their respective college. To get Dean’s List it takes a FULL YEAR…not just one semester of work…at 3.65 or higher. Social scene at Fordham is very lively and fun. Clubs, groups, club sports (highly competitive I might add).</p>
<p>Opportunities for internships are plentiful at Fordham. A very long list of very famous alumni. Movies are frequently filmed at Rose Hill campus. U2 performed at Rose Hill, for free last March, courtesy of Good Morning America showing up on a Friday morning. Kids bobbing and weaving to the music early…in the cold…but they had a blast. </p>
<p>You can take classes at Lincoln Center if you want, as well. RamVan service runs almost 24=7 between the campuses, which is safe and convenient service. Metro North train runs from Fordham’s gates to Grand Central Terminal in about 15 minutes. Or north to Westchester…or up to New Haven if you prefer. </p>
<p>You can’t go wrong at either school. It comes down to your personal preferences on size of a school, location, weather, perhaps sports or internships etc.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, Princeton Review gives Holy Cross an Academic Rating of 98 and gives Fordham a 79. The Amissions Selectivity Rating for HC is 96 and for Fordham is 92.
You can access these at: [Test</a> Prep: GMAT, GRE, LSAT, MCAT, SAT, ACT, and More](<a href=“http://www.princetonreview.com/]Test”>http://www.princetonreview.com/)</p>
<p>Certainly, Worcester is not a huge selling point for many students. Nor am I surprised that NYC is a more popular choice for many. I would agree that Fordham has improved its reputation over the years. That said, I don’t think that academically Fordham is a peer level school with Holy Cross.</p>
<p>Basing peer level on what? Admissions scores of students? SAT scores? Fordham is fast approaching Holy Cross. Look at the programs and the faculty at Fordham. I’m not denigrating Holy Cross. I am only saying Fordham is on the move upward. I have zero respect for Princeton Review which is outdated, biased and uses questionable methodologies to come up with their “ratings.” Giving Fordham a 79 for academics is laughable. Its a very challenging school. I have used Princeton Review solely as a preliminary…very preliminary search tool and more often than not have found it to be utterly wrong, both in terms of quality of academics as well as the social scene. Use it at your own risk. They have kept the same information on Fordham for 4-5 years without updating it. In that time span Fordham has moved up more than 20 places on the USNWR national university rankings, they have a new President, a new Academic Senior Vice President and their admissions scores have skyrocketed up more than 100 points. They have a goal of being at 1300 SAT in the 50th percentile of applicants, which they are likely to hit within a very few years…maybe two. The depth and quality of their programs, the credentials of their faculty are very strong. They have been highly successful recruiting students from Florida, Texas, California and some midwest states. Holy Cross is still very much a regional, but very selective LAC, in my humble opinion. I respect them immensely, but I am not sure if they are moving upwards like Fordham, which was recently rated the HOTTEST Roman Catholic School by a major news magazine two years ago. Fordham has also been very successful in recruiting national merit scholars and students with SAT scores above 1500. </p>
<p>Some kids will pick Holy Cross over Fordham, and some will pick Fordham. That is fine, its all about going where you feel the most comfortable and where you think you can fit in the best. I won’t denigrate any school. I’m just saying get with the program on what is happening NOW at Fordham and its mission for the 2016 plan. (They have raised 270million of their 500million dollar capital campaign for new buildings at both Lincoln Center and Rose Hill. Three new dorms at Rose Hill will open in 2010. )</p>
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<p>By that logic, I’m sure Harvard isn’t moving upwards like Fordham is either. All that proves is that the lower you are on the ladder the more upper movement is available. </p>
<p>Both Fordham and Holy Cross draw kids from other states (45 states are represented at Holy Cross) but Holy Cross draws 61 percent of students from OOS versus 46 percent at Fordham. Perhaps calling Fordham a suitcase school is a bit harsh, but, more pointedly, since Fordham draws so many students from the Tri-State area, the number of kids that clear out on weekends might be an important factor to a kid coming from outside easy commuting distance.</p>
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<p>the enrolled student sat midrange for the fordham class of 2007 was 1120-1290. the enrolled student sat midrange for the fordham class of 2012 was 1130-1320. it appears the midrange was up another 10 points this year. so… 30 points in six years. and 60+ points from a median sat score of 1300. </p>
<p>and while it is great to claim equally strong (or stronger) academic programs, wheres the data? despite being a third the size, holy cross alums have earned more phds in four of the last five years. not simply more per capita: more. more in economics, too. admittedly, phd production is a very imperfect metric, but a difference of this magnitude is difficult to explain away. (holy cross also performed better in the payscale salary survey, the only other measure of output we have.)</p>
<p>last, as far as money goes, holy cross has more of it. an endowment a third larger than fordhams… six times larger per student. and for all the money fordham is raising, holy cross is raising it at two thirds the rate… three times the rate per student.</p>
<p>is fordham a fine school? sure. is it on the rise? perhaps. are there plenty of legitimate reasons for one to choose it over holy cross? tons. but lets not let enthusiasm blind reality.</p>
<p>Holy Cross is considered a step above Fordham among Catholic families, below Georgetown and ND, along the lines of BC.</p>
<p>However, I am personally fond of Fordham, having spoken with the president, countless professors, and having visited the school numerous times. Fordham very strongly pushes forward its Jesuit ideals and stresses its proximity to metropolitan New York. There’s also the traditional campus feeling and the genuine diversity inherent in a New York university and in New York itself.</p>
<p>Fordham will only improve under the charismatic leadership of Father McShane.</p>
<p>It will remain low on the USNWR on account of its identification with the Society of Jesus, and, thus, the Roman Catholic Church. Holy Cross faces the same backlash.</p>
<p>Fordham is an excellent university, but Holy Cross is the clear choice with regards to both reputation and academic experience.</p>
<p>holy cross has better academics
holy cross is more selective so its only natural (get over it ppl) that it should have students of a higher academic caliber
fordham has the city, so right off campus there is nowhere better
from what ive heard holy cross is suburban and is a big drinking school but has higher prestige
fordham wins life, hc wins eveything else you asked</p>
<p>Holy Cross all the way. Event though it is in a slightly shady area or Worcester, but hey you’re less than an hours drive away from Boston!</p>
<p>Is there a list of the Catholic colleges ranked by Prestige and name recognition? Wondering where Providence and Stonehill would place in the ranking.</p>
<p>Holy Cross has one of the highest alumni giving rates in the country-usually-52-56%. For over 150 years, HC has recruited students from all over the country and this is reflected in its well established alumni clubs. From a prestige point of view, Holy Cross has played Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, and Brown in football and basketball for over 100 years- an affiliation no other Catholic school has. HC has a lot in common with its old rival Colgate.</p>
<p>By what measure are you people stating that Holy Cross is the better academic experience? I am not aware of any test or measurement between the academic experience at Fordham or Holy Cross. </p>
<p>I just love people who don’t know either school opining on which is better. For those who are Holy Cross fans, fine…it is certainly your prerogative to support your alma mater (or school where your kid goes). Its a small LAC and comparing it to Fordham, which is a national research university with a highly respected Law School, MBA program (including one in Beijing and in London with close ties to LSE), two campuses, an amazing theatre and dance program, 18 consecutive years of applicant record growth, on and on. I hear very little about Holy Cross making any significant changes or moves. Again, I am not into school bashing. People, particularly on CC will point to the SAT scores of students and make superficial judgements about status, prestige and rankings. </p>
<p>To me, the choice is between an LAC and a large university in New York. Whichever is your best choice, go with it. </p>
<p>Par: Fordham’s reputation in Football is really quite storied…Vince Lombardi among those stories. They play two or three Ivy League schools in football every year. Fordham is in the Patriot League for football with Holy Cross and Colgate. </p>
<p>While Fordham still draws heavily from the TriState area, it is increasingly drawing on students from around the nation. </p>
<p>Fordham, BC, Holy Cross and Georgetown are the upper tier of Jesuit colleges. </p>
<p>If someone picks Holy Cross, I congratulate them and wish them the very best. But I think its a different experience entirely than being in New York at Fordham. </p>
<p>kwu: You are absolutely correct. Fr. McShane is a great President at Fordham and is very intent on reaching his long term goals and objectives.</p>
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<p>You’ve answered your own question: “… the choice is between an LAC and a large university…”</p>
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<p>I do REALLY like it when someone is passionate about their school. It speaks well for their graduates. But it’s not a discussion about Fordham’s graduate programs now is it? Nor is it about what you may have heard or not heard about some other program. Nor do you need to tell people that you’re not bashing a program. After the first time (mentioned) it can come across as being insincere and readers can and will make their own judgment about your posts.</p>
<p>As for your repeated questions about how academic rigor is measured … why ask a question when you won’t be satisfied with any possible answer? This is a forum of opinions. </p>
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<p>I hope that’s just a regrettable post after a bad day …</p>
<p>I know a lot of dumb students that got into Fordham and decently bright ones who got into holy cross.</p>
<p>My goodness. What a silly and regrettable comment. For the record, I know a Stanford lawyer. One of the worst I have ever met. Does that make Stanford a bad law school? Of course not.</p>
<p>Fordham for the record is proud of its Pell Grant admissions standards…allowing students from severely disadvantaged backgrounds a chance at a first class Jesuit education. </p>
<p>Every school, including Holy Cross, has people you may wonder how they got admitted.</p>
<p>[Fordham</a> Facts](<a href=“http://www.fordham.edu/discover_fordham/facts_26604.asp]Fordham”>http://www.fordham.edu/discover_fordham/facts_26604.asp)</p>
<p>[Class</a> Profile](<a href=“http://www.fordham.edu/admissions/undergraduate_admiss/applying/class_profile_28473.asp]Class”>http://www.fordham.edu/admissions/undergraduate_admiss/applying/class_profile_28473.asp)</p>