<p>^^I remember watching that docudrama in elementary school. Even now, I am amazed by her perseverance under such circumstances.</p>
<p>And Jessica Herrera will go far in life with such a work ethic, I’m sure. She’s an inspiration to all who struggle under through terrible and sometimes seemingly unerringly difficult situations.</p>
<p>" Look, if your focus is more on partying than your grades (which my point was that at lower tiered schools, this is generally true),"</p>
<p>I haven’t seen any evidence that the main focus of students in lower tier schools is partying. Many students at the lowest tier schools are first general college students who are in college to have better job prospects. They may have large loans and have to work long hours to attend college. They don’t have much time for partying. </p>
<p>I agree with someone who suggested that mid tier schools probably are the ones who have the most partying. That’s because they are likely to have more privileged students who succeeded academically because of having the good fortune of growing up in a privileged background, and are lucky enough to have parents who can pay for them to attend college without the students’ having to take out large loans or work long hours.</p>
<p>LAConfedential Post 59
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<p>Engineerhead Post #49
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<p>Quoted for truth. When my parents were students at these lower tiered schools, they didn’t have time for partying, and neither did their classmates - a good deal of them had bills to pay, children to raise, and family members to feed. Of course, there were some more flighty individuals there, but most people were focused on getting their degree and climbing up the career ladder.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, when you say many I assume you do mean most. I disagree with the use of the word “most”, and I have the authority to conclude so (do you? and this isn’t aiming to be rude, but aiming to point out that times change, not that I know when your time was) since I am still in the college scene and know very many college students across all levels of schools. Students in lower tiered schools focus very much on partying. They focus more on partying than they do on studying. Both of this is for certain. If they are not partying, well they’re not studying either and are mostly just chilling & relaxing out somewhere else - which is essentially the same idea. Partying, just chilling, doing nothing, sleeping in, etc. are all part of the same category (would you say? - serious question). It’s all part of the category of “non-academics”. Anyway, back on point, if you spend more time partying than you do studying, then based on your actions, your main focus IS to party. Most kids going to lower-tiered schools don’t have a problem with the money either (not to mention it is cheaper there as well). Most kids going to lower-tiered schools come from mid-to-wealthy families as well, but just didn’t have the grades or dedication during high school. However, I also agree that mid-tiered schools are definitely the hardest partiers. My point is this: whatever you spend more time on, that is what you’re there for whether you want to believe it or not - and if you don’t want to believe it, then you’re simply lying to yourself (talking about the students). I know too many students at lower tiered schools. All of these students focus on partying, not studying (and I’m certainly not condemning them). All of these students are consistent with their B’s & C’s, and if you’re going to a lower-tiered school, getting a C means you’re almost literally putting in no effort - truthfully (of course it can vary on teacher).</p>
<p>Come on, let’s be real here. Let’s look at the retention rates of lower-tiered schools (60% and down), and look at the retention rates of mid tiered schools (~80-90%), and look at the retention rates of top tiered schools (98%+). Why is it that EASIER schools, more kids drop out? And at HARDER schools, less kids drop out? That certainly does not follow logic.</p>
<p>spideygirl, please be meticulous. The converse is not always true. LAConfedential is correct, I never said that.</p>
<p>Have you heard about the girl was needed money for grad school so she sold her virginity. They even had to make sure she was a virgin so that she wasn’t conning people because many people did not believe that a very pretty girl from Las Vegas was still a virgin. I think she had enough money for grad school after that… hahaha.</p>
<p>^ I did hear about this. This is actually becoming a bit more common now, sad to say.</p>
<p>^Hey, when you need money, you need money.</p>
<p>"Northstarmom, when you say many I assume you do mean most. I disagree with the use of the word “most”, and I have the authority to conclude so (do you? and this isn’t aiming to be rude, but aiming to point out that times change, not that I know when your time was) since I am still in the college scene and know very many college students across all levels of schools. "</p>
<p>Wrong assumption. “Many” does not mean “most.” I would not say “most” because I don’t know if that’s true. I do know that many students who are at lower tiered schools are first gen college students who are there to be able to qualify for higher paying jobs and a more comfortable life than they would be able to get otherwise.</p>
<p>“Come on, let’s be real here. Let’s look at the retention rates of lower-tiered schools (60% and down), and look at the retention rates of mid tiered schools (~80-90%), and look at the retention rates of top tiered schools (98%+). Why is it that EASIER schools, more kids drop out? And at HARDER schools, less kids drop out? That certainly does not follow logic.”</p>
<p>I’ve seen the research on this, and the research indicates that finances are the reason. The more competitive schools are able to offer more generous need-based financial aid. The less competitive schools gap students more and are more likely to require students to take out large loans. </p>
<p>When I taught at a 2nd/3rd tier college, some students were selling their blood and working as many as 30 or more hours a week. Many had huge loans. I never saw anything like that or heard of anything like that from my fellow students when I attended Harvard, which now is even more generous than it was when I went there.</p>
<p>"A study funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation found that the main reason why students drop out of college is the conflict between school and work and family commitments. The study, With Their Whole Lives Ahead of Them, was conducted by Public Agenda, a nonprofit and nonpartisan public policy research organization…</p>
<p>Half of students who drop out of college have income under $35,000, compared with only a quarter of students who graduate.</p>
<p>Many of the students who dropped out said that they had inadequate financial assistance from their families and the student aid system. For example, 58% of college dropouts said that they had no help from their parents, compared with 37% among students who graduated. Similarly, 69% said that they had no scholarships or loans, compared with 43% among students who graduated.</p>
<p>The lack of financial support from parents made a difference in college choices. Of the students who had no help from their parents, 62% chose their college based on proximity to home or work and 54% based on a convenient class schedule, compared with 45% and 37% among students who had parental support. These choices had an impact on graduation rates. Of students who did not graduate, 66% chose their college based on location and 59% based on class schedules, compared with 45% and 36% among students who graduated. Students who graduated were more likely to choose a college based on its academic reputation (54% versus 33%)."</p>
<p>[Why</a> Do Students Drop Out of College? - Fastweb](<a href=“http://www.fastweb.com/financial-aid/articles/1965-why-do-students-drop-out-of-college]Why”>http://www.fastweb.com/financial-aid/articles/1965-why-do-students-drop-out-of-college)</p>
<p>^^^^Hm. It seems that certain students can sell their eggs, too - however, this only applies to females.</p>
<p>Oh okay, sorry. Well, if many, then the point bears little weight, because many can be anything. Btw, if you were to give a ballpark estimate, how many would “many” be? 10, 50,100? Also, just earlier tonight, around midnight, I was with my sister and a friend. I told my sister about this debate I was having with “another” person. She currently goes to a lower than average school because it is ranked top 10 for its CRNA program. She was befuddled when I told her the two sides, and she said at her school, most kids definitely party all the time. Their weekends start on thursday, end on monday. Literally. She said all people do for the class is the homework, no more, and some don’t even do their homework, they just do enough to get a C or B. She said homework is all it takes for most classes to get an A, so many kids skip a few homeworks, enough to where they’re still satisfied with their grade and get off from doing their homework. She also pointed out another good point; she said that at her school it’s a LOT more culturally diverse. Not to be racial, but usually it’s usually the minorities (under-represented) that lack the work ethics, and there is a MUCH larger concentration of them at the lower tiered schools. She told me about her best friend’s roommate, who went to another school much lower in prestige than hers, got kicked out because of her poor grades. Kicked out. </p>
<p>Ah yes, well this would make sense for the steep differences in retention rate. Also, backed up by the point above (if there’s more URM, well URM are generally not of the middle-to-upper class, so money would be an issue). However, I still see 40% as MUCH too large of a difference. Even based on those numbers, it would nowhere near conclude a 40%, and the numbers you posted are facts. Your numbers actually work towards my argument.</p>
<p>I do have a question, however for clarification, but the answer of which would not overturn the given logic:
Of what category is the 69% based on? It was unclear.</p>
<p>Northstarmom,</p>
<p>Actually, FIU is generally not considered prestigious even in Miami. Univ of Miami is considered prestigious there. However, I seem to remember a study some years ago that compared earning potential of alum and, despite lower selectivity and student SAT and gpa profile, FIU fared better than UFl in earning power. It could be that it’s the difference between being in a more remote part of the state and being in Miami, with a greater potential for internships (and perhaps the work connections that professors have). It could be that many FIU students are working all through college so they graduate with experience that UFl kids may not have. Or it may simply be that FIU kids are more likely to take jobs in Miami where the pay is higher than in other parts of the state. It is probably a combination of all three. Nevertheless, grads from FIU tend to do fine in life and this student may find herself very at home with the environment because the school is heavily commuter and has a strong Hispanic presence. I agree with you: only in elite circles and cc world is there such concern over prestige.</p>
<p>Engineerhead
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<p>Actually, in your attempt to demonstrate meticulousness you became confused and lost the big picture. You said: “Most kids who go to lower tiered schools go to party and focus on life instead of academics”. </p>
<p>Since you believe that “most kids who go to lower tiered schools go to party”, then in your opinion lower tier schools are not party schools? Is it your belief then that at mid- or upper-tier schools, more that “most” of the kids go to party? That would be the only way that you could now convince anyone that your belief was that mid or upper tier schools are, in your humble opinion, the party schools. No, your statement implied that lower tier schools are the party schools. </p>
<p>How about just admitting that when you said that “Most kids who go to lower tiered schools go to party”, you were in fact not being meticulous. Better than that, put your logic book away from freshman year and just admit that you were wrong. You generalized and mispoke, and then wanted to call someone else out on generalizing. If you want to use your logic book, apply it to yourself as well.</p>
<p>zing
that was very funny</p>
<p>spideygirl, no, that is your inference from the statement, but not my implication. I’m far from confused, however I am a bit tired because I just got off a very long flight. In fact, rather, you are confused.
Should I explain? This statement does not even parallel with your statement in post #73, and if you think it does, then be “meticulous.”</p>
<p>While it’s true that what little NBC told us about her academic achievements isn’t something that we would consider “extraordinary” here on CC, her grades are outstanding in the context of her living conditions. On top of that, it’s truly great that a parent would fight for her two kids alone while telling them to focus on school only.</p>
<p>Anyway, before you return, I’m not going to bother with this specific debate, it’s not fruitful in any way.</p>
<p>zing - definitely.</p>
<p>I hope that this feel-good “tv movie mentality” story is followed up by adequate support once this student is on campus. Getting in is not the end of the story, and often students who make good stories, end up having further problems once actually at the school. Academic, social and emotional adjustments are hard for many students, but coming from backgrounds of various kinds of disadvantages can make it all the more hard.</p>
<p>^I agree that it will be considerably difficult for her. It’s not easy going from homeless to a university. But her academic achievements are astounding given the context of her socioeconomic background. This truly is an inspiration to kids struggling to keep their families going, let alone attending college. Thanks so much for this story! :)</p>