<p>"Myabe my school is just an exception, but I am almost certain that there is no teacher at my public school with a Ph.D. I'm not even sure if all of the honors teachers have masters degrees."</p>
<p>Principal was working on a PhD, Asst. Principal was working on a Master's. (They have those degree's completed now). Only two people I knew of working at my school that did this. EVER...</p>
<p>I could never imagine missing out on all the experiences of high school. I'm sorry, but to me, being in threater with friends, competing with other schools in academic competitions, spending nights in hotels without our parents, camping out and hanging out until 2 am before a a competion...High school provided all of that. </p>
<p>I coulder fathom not being ableto attend a pep rally or a football game that was for MY class, MY friends...there are things about High School that Homeschooling will never be able to emulate.</p>
<p>Of course, I will have a response that states: "My homeschooling system did this this and this..."</p>
<p>A majority of homeschoolers don't have the cohesiveness with other homeschoolers, while public schools across the nation are involved in similar curiculum and activities nationwide. Homeschooling does not have that sort of nationwide cohesiveness and regularity.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I have to present that the benefits of public schools are as follows: you are closer to your fellow man. I think there is a certain amount of indifference to the masses by homeschooled children, of course, this might be skewed by experience, but the extremely polar end of the argument would also be skewed by experience.</p>
<p>Public schools must promote regularity because they don't have 2% of the population to teach, but the 90% that go to public school. That's a wide spectrum of students.</p>
<p>I understand homeschooled education is a great tool, but at the same time, it also depends on geography. A rural homeschooled student will almost never have the same opportunities than a publicly educated student, (please not the qualifier, almost)</p>
<p>I don't even go to an above average high school. I go to a below average public school. Yet, would I choose homeschooling? No. None of my future children will be homeschooled, as far as I can tell. </p>
<p>I'm not here to dis homescholling, just here to present some of its weaknesses. Public education has many also.</p>
<p>Ferny, the underlying assumption in your post seems to be that people, who homeschool or are considering homeschooling, don't have much experience with public schools and are making their decisions in the dark without knowing what the schools have to offer. I assure you this is very rarely the case. In fact many attend school before they determine that it doesn't meet their needs, or they attend school for some classes. It's rarely a simple black and white decision to homeschool, and most families very carefully weigh the known benefits and disadvantages of both choices before deciding.</p>
<p>I'm curious if you're basing your assessment on homeschool students and situations that you know of, or if you're just imagining what it would be like for you personally if you couldn't go to school anymore.</p>
<p>If you're imagining what it would be like for you, that's fine, but please be aware that not everybody's situation is like yours, and for many, homeschooling is the best alternative. If you're basing your assessment on certain homeschoolers you know, please be aware that every situation is different. </p>
<p>You are right about getting a response telling about how a homeschool situation is other than you described. You'll get at at least one: My homeschooled daughter certainly didn't miss out on being in theater with friends. She was very involved with community theater, and made friends there she will have for the rest of her life. In addition, the quality of theater experience was way beyond what she could have received at the local high school, since they don't even have a theater department.</p>
<p>I could go on in regard to other points you made, but most have already been covered in this thread. It's wonderful that you are happy and comfortable in your high school situation, but there are others with different needs and experiences.</p>
<p>I seperate homeschooled families into two seperate branches: the ones that are done for educational needs and the ones that do it for religious wants.</p>
<p>I'm basing my assessment on homeschooled students from the ones I know, which would number about 20ish around the country, and the majority don't necessarily feel like it's the best environment for them, yet they are stuck there.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I'm also imagining what homeschooling would be like for me. I live in the middle of South Texas, where there are two homeschooled children. They do not have the same interaction with the rest of the population. Homeschooling can work wonders in a well-populated area, but when the area is rural in nature and connections are usually formed at school because of the centralized imporantance of a school district in a small town (usually one of the largest employers)</p>
<p>Again, I want to explain my position: I'm not here to promote public school or demote homeschooling. However, there seems to be many that put both on a higher pedastal and proclaim one vastly superior to the other. Public schools are meant to be nation-wide promoters and regulators of education. Homeschooling is far more specifc. However, there are disadvantages, especially in areas that are less populated.</p>
<p>I certainly agree that when a student chooses homeschooling in order to get a better education, as opposed to being forced to homeschool in order to restrict education (for religious or other reasons), the results will be better for that student. I personally don't think any student should be forced to remain in a schooling, homeschooling, or unschooling situation that is not working for them.</p>
<p>Your generalizations, however, don't seem to be holding up. I can say from first hand experience that homeschooling can be particularly successful for rural students. We live in an extremely rural area, and it worked very well for my daughter. She was able to take advantage of opportunities in outlying areas, that were not available here, because she had the time and freedom to travel. </p>
<p>Each student, family, and community is different, and the advantages and disadvantage of all educational options need to be weighed on an individual basis.</p>
<p>I certainly don't see how homeschooling can be attacked academically. For the way the educational establishment views such things, i.e., standardized tests, shows homeschooling students do better. People may have quibbles whether it is a self-selection issue and not due to the homeschooling. But certainly there is no evidence that homeschoolers do worse!</p>
<p>Also, there is no difference in how homeschoolers score depending on the degree of state regulation. Why regulate when it makes no difference in results? There is no problem to be solved by regulation.</p>
<p>Lacking academic arguments, people attack hsing for socialization reasons. But studies have shown that homeschoolers are well-adjusted and the overwhelming majority have multiple weekly activities outside the home.</p>
<p>When confronted with this, people attack hsing for the absence of the sorts of social activities a high school will have. But then, most of those activities (dances, competitions, and the like) can and are replicated by homeschoolers when possible. Are individual needs met perfectly? Of course not. But they aren't meant in institutional schools either. There are plenty of kids who are miserable in the atmosphere of schools. </p>
<p>Moreover, there are plenty of activities a homeschooled student can get involved in that the traditionally schooled cannot, due to schedule flexibility and greater efficiency. I've seen surveys showing all the time taken up in schools with nonacademic matters (transportation, time between classes, getting settled down and packing up, assemblies, announcements, handing things out, dealing with discipline problems, etc.) and, from my personal experience, there is a great deal of busywork.</p>
<p>Finally, there is the argument about "indifference to the masses." Well, the only study I've seen shows that adults who were homeschooled actually are far more involved in their communities than others. And why doesn't this criticism ever get lodged against elite private schools or public schools in affluent areas, but only against homeschoolers? But I've never seen such indifference among the latter. It is sheer speculation engaged in by those grasping for a reason to condemn hsing.</p>
<p>Homeschooling isn't best for everyone by any means. Only one of my two children was homeschooled, and she was only homeschooled when, educationally and emotionally, her needs were not being met by the public school. She now tells me that, if she ever has children, she will want to homeschool them.</p>
<p>Many of her traditionally schooled friends have asked her if she missed anything. When she mentions that she could get 2 1/2 more hours of sleep in the morning and had evenings and weekends free of homework, however, their opinion of the fun factor of their schools usually vanished!</p>
<p>I hope this post makes sense. I just got back from vacation last night and am recovering from a seven hour time difference. So forgive any grammatical errors and the like ...</p>
<p>I'm not seeking to condemm homeschooling, but you seem quite content in doing the same for public education.</p>
<p>Again, social opportunities are abundant regardless of what public school you are speaking of. Homeschooling doesn't always guarantee social interaction, it depends on geography. Sometimes homeschooling alienates the children from the rest of the student populace, I've seen the first hand, and again, do pray tell notice the qualifiers I use.</p>
<p>Furthermore, we also have to understand that the public educational system can't be geared to individual needs. It just can't, there are too many out there to serve in a broad-spectrume methodology that cannot be fulfilled, so again, I grant homeschooling advantages in this also.</p>
<p>Indifference to the masses I see in both private schools, public schools with vastly affluent population and homeschooling, so no, I'm not just singling out homeschooling, however, this thread is about such a topic.</p>
<p>Again, I point to evidence with my own experience with people that have been homeschooled. You will argue with experiences that only neutralizes that.</p>
<p>The point I'm trying to illustrate is that homeschooling does have its fault. By and large, it depends on geography and the ability of the parent to teach the subject-matter. A public school education has a core basis it must follow and certain standards that must be met. </p>
<p>Each system has it's benefits, I'm just trying to preserve the side of public education in this thread, as it has been badly bashed by many a person that homeschools their children.</p>
<p>Though, I will say this: You can never replace the feel of it being YOUR high school football team, YOUR graduating class, YOUR senior year, YOUR pep rally...</p>
<p>There are certain things that homeschooling will never fulfill. However, as a high school student, I am taking college classes :)</p>
<p>Ferny, why would you say we are content to condemn public education? No one has condemned public education in any responses to you here. On the contrary, we have allowed that both public schooling and homeschooling have their places.</p>
<p>In this thread, several people have recounted problems they've had with public school, in the process of explaining why they homeschool. That does not amount to condemnation. Please, take a look at the title of this thread. Who is condemning who? This is a forum for homeschoolers to discuss issues surrounding homeschooling and college, yet you found it necessary to pull up this thread.</p>
<p>You can report your glowing high school experiences, and that's great. Everybody is happy for you. Nobody is telling you your education is a joke, so please don't come here promoting "Homeschooling is SUCH a JOKE!" and then speak condescendingly as if nobody here knows about prom.</p>
<p>If you are truly concerned about the small percentage of homeschoolers who are isolated, and how that relates to their college prospects, then start a thread somewhere about that specifically. It's a topic worth discussing. But please understand that homeschoolers make tough, often painful, choices and are generally very well informed in the process. You know what is going on in your school district, but every homeschooler here is much more aware of what their local high school does and does not offer them than you are.</p>
<p>Of course there are things "homeschooling will never fulfill", but some people don't consider those things to be the most important factors in education. They have the right to make those choices. Some people don't care about football or pep rallies, or at least hold other things to be more important. It's great that you enjoy them, but can you respect someone who chooses something else?</p>
<p>Okay... that's certainly the most adamant I've ever been in a CC post. I guess I'm just really sick of seeing this thread. I apologize to the rest of you who are sick of seeing it, for fueling it one last time.</p>
<p>Looking at the pros and cons and making an individual choice, while allowing that someone else will have a different calculation due to individual circumstances and preferences, is hardly bashing those who reach a different choice. No one on this list has advocated getting rid of public education or forcing children to be homeschooled. It would be great to get the same amount of tolerance from the other side (if you don't believe that hsing is an illegitimate choice and should be disallowed, regulated, or the like -- then what is the point of coming here to argue?).</p>
<p>The only ones who have been bashed -- repeatedly in this thread, in some media articles, by the NEA, etc. -- are homeschoolers who have been variously told that they are ill-educated, elitist, socially isolated, bored, and on and on. If there were any study out there that supported any of these claims they would be loudly trumpeted. But there aren't. The studies show the contrary. Anecdotal evidence about individual students, assuming arguendo that their experiences are being accurately perceived and reported, is hardly persuasive when you can find the same sorts of problems with individual students in any kind of schooling.</p>
<p>I'm tired of hearing that defending one's choices, when they have been criticized in very strong terms, is "bashing" the critic, particularly when those attacked have been very careful not to attack the choices made by the critic. Are we just supposed to sit here and let the advocates of traditional schooling come here, tell us that homeschooling is "SUCH A JOKE" and never offer a word of defense for ourselves? I certainly reject the idea that we are supposed to sit here and be quiet targets.</p>
<p>Homeschooled kids may get all those things you are talking about but they seriously lack in life experiences. They are sheltered. While you may say football games, prom and exposure to drinking and drugs (and the choice to do them or not) and anything else "aren't important" or are "bad", you are just plain wrong. People need to grow up and not be so sheltered by their parents.</p>
<p>While home schooling may be right in certain situations (such as a terrible public hs, or other extraneous circumstances) I'd go so far as to say that it is generally useless and restrictive on "growing up" in the world that the kid will soon live in.</p>
<p>Here we go again. People keep using this thread to make the same prejudiced and uninformed remarks over and over. </p>
<p>Clearly, homeschooling is not a joke to those of us who come here to discuss issues surrounding homeschoolers and college. Never the less, a great deal of energy has gone into answering remarks almost identical to yours in this thread previously, if you care to read it. </p>
<p>If you were informed about homeschooling, you would know that many homeschoolers are less sheltered, less restricted, and more involved in their communities than the average school student. You can "go as far as to say" anything you want, but that won't make it true or credible.</p>
<p>I apologize for my adamant and impatient tone, but I'm tired of people promoting this thread with the same misinformation.</p>
<p>We do tend to get people who somehow get their jollies coming here to troll for arguments, don't we?</p>
<p>This new subject has been handled in depth here and in the thread "my cousins." I see no reason to go into it again. We spend all this time proving wrong a troll's baseless conclusions by going into personal experiences and studies in exquisite detail, that one goes away, and a new one pops up with the same erroneous conclusions.</p>
<p>Maybe if we don't feed the trolls, they will go away.</p>
<p>It boggles the mind to see such a narrow minded view of homeschooling in this forum. I don't recall seeing any homeschooler tell the parent of a traditionally schooled child that his or her education is a joke. Most homeschoolers I know have the utmost respect for teachers. </p>
<p>Isn't it wonderful that we live in a world where people can make the decision that is in the best interest of their child? Be thankful that people have a choice and they can choose to live with it. </p>
<p>Homeschooling is not for everyone and traditional schooling is not for everyone. Both have their pros and cons. I attended public school, never went to my high school prom, and I don't feel deprived for having "missed" this opportunity.</p>
<p>CornellEDer:
Me? sheltered? no way! Yes I am sheltered but it is for my own good and not in the way that you think. Just because I havent been in some of these "life expierences" you are talking about doesn't mean I wouldnt know how to deal with them. I don't care to go to a football game ( I can't stand football!!! I just dont like it) .Yes I am a quiet and reserved person but I am not socially inept.
I still have "life expeirences" and learn from my own mistakes when I am too stubborn to see others.<br>
I would never do drugs. Why? Because I have tried it and learned for my self that it is bad for me?? No because I know and I see it in others lives. When I say I see it in others lives I do not mean on some stupid TV show. I know a girl whose mother is so messed up by drugs .I would never do that to myself and the same goes for drinking. </p>
<p>Why are prom, football, and drinking and drugs so important as life expierences? So that we learn from our own mistakes? Why would I want to go thru that if I can learn from some one elses mistakes?</p>
<p>Just to clarify -- my homeschooled daughter went to a number of proms! She knew lots of nonhomeschooling teens from outside activities. And her social transition to college has gone very smoothly, thank you very much.</p>
<p>I know, I said I wasn't going to say anything more!</p>
<p>No one talks about how sheltered school kids are by getting texts that are censored because of pressure from both the right and the left. See, Ravitch, The Language Police. If you want sheltering, look at the typical high school curriculum ... And if you want difficult transitions, be one of those typical high school students that show up at college needing remedial courses and having no idea how to be a self-directed learner. Not your usual CC poster, I agree, but it is shocking how many high school graduates can't write, can't read, can't do math, and know very little about anything.</p>
<p>I, for instance, have noticed a real problem with institutionally schooled teens -- at least on this board -- that think stating a conclusion is the same thing as making an argument.</p>
<p>I am the husband and father of a black family with eight children. I dont wish to offend anyone, but having grown up in the black community I have learned, and with quite a lot of pain, that we blacks suffer from a virulent strain of anti-intellectualism that I think is near the heart of our social difficulties. The black child who finds expression through Bach or mathematics is often a magnet for some of the worst insults one can imagine. I am not bitter about this sad state of affairs. Neither do I blame anyone for it. I am interested in solving it, at least for my children. Homeschooling was the solution for us.</p>
<p>We are pretty poor by American standards. I make barely enough to feed, shelter and clothe all ten of us (about $28-30K). I obviously cant afford private schools, and yet I am desperate to give my kids the intellectual freedom and curiosity they would rarely have were I to leave them to the public. Understand that I think the public schools are generally remarkable at what they do. But I think there are pressures involved, especially for blacks, that are devastating and that exist even in the public schools. So I thought we had to avoid these at all cost at least during the formative years of my childrens lives.</p>
<p>It is a complex thing. The first child has set the standard and shown all the others how to adjust to the world. She is very open minded and a lot freer than I ever was. I am terribly insecure, especially on racial matters. She, on the other hand, is very open and loving toward all people. She knows the history, but is not haunted by it as I am. Even when I have explained that there are people in our country who wish her dead merely because of her race, she is unfazed. I, on the other hand, think such people lurk around every corner (ha ha).</p>
<p>And I have been looking over my shoulder for them all of my life. Years ago I took the SAT, and could not help fearing what the whites would think if I failed to score well. I knew they all expected me to do miserably because, after all Im black and my brain is just genetically inferior. Sure, of course it was crazy thinking; but I still had to fight that demon while also fighting the SAT. And I didnt do well at all (800s?). My daughter is 17 and is just now applying to schools. Her scores:</p>
<p>SAT I 1550
SAT II, 800 Literature, 720 on both math IC and IIC, and I think a 700 on US History</p>
<p>She did this with not even so much as a single prep book. She has now prepped for the math and history SAT IIs and retook them on Jan 28th. She thinks she has pulled down three 800s at a single sitting. That would give her four 800s on the SAT IIs and a 1550 SAT I. She was deferred Harvard EA, but that is quite fine. I am still convinced she will continue her work somewhere special.</p>
<p>Homeschooling was critical to us. In a sense it has helped me free my daughter from the mental prison created by slavery and racism. Of course I am still in chains, but I really dont mind now.</p>
<p>My daughter is no fluke. My 16 year-old son scored 99th percentile on the PSAT. I think he missed two questions on the entire test. He has just taken the new SAT (Jan 28th) and thinks he has scored 2400.</p>
<p>My thirteen-year-old is equally as adept at mathematics and the sciences as the oldest two, and my 11 year-old, having now begun studies in Algebra, may surpass them all.</p>
<p>Because my kids are not publicly educated, and dont have a lot of the fancy ECs I see mentioned here, the top tier colleges may not respect what they have accomplished. It is fine. Homeschooling for us is still not a joke, however many rejections we may receive in April.</p>
<p>Wow, Drosselmeier, this was a wonderful surprise. Every time I see this thread opened up again, I grit my teeth and brace myself for yet another uninformed attack on homeschooling. Instead, I found your beautiful account of homeschooling success. </p>
<p>Homeschoolers come from many different backgrounds, but your family's story illustrates what we all have in common. We all are taking immediate responsiblity for meeting our children's needs after carefully, and often painfully, weighing our options. </p>
<p>As far as fancy EC's go, I think top colleges have a lot of respect for the things homeschoolers do. They are more concerned with how the students takes advantage of available oportunities, than they are with how many oportunities were served up for them.</p>
<p>Being deferred at Harvard is an incredible accomplishment. I'm sure your daughter will have a wonderful choice of schools to choose from. (If Northwestern was on her list, PM me if you'd like me to put her in touch with my homeschooled daughter, who is in her first year there.)</p>
<p>Regardless of schooling choices, it takes a lot of courage and wisdon to see our own limitations and then to raise children, who are freer than we will ever be. Thanks for sharing your story.</p>
<p>Although I go to a private high school, I am offended by the title of this post. I personally don't think home schooling is a joke.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing, Drosselmeier! We all come to homeschooling along different paths, and yours does not seem to have been an easy one. You must be very proud of your children! And I'll bet they are very proud of their father, too. Be sure to post in April and let us know where your daughter will be furthering her education.</p>
<p>hopeforfuture, thanks for your vote of support. This thread has been a source of much irritation, and many of us would be very happy to never see it revived again. On the other hand look at what Drosselmeier has to added to the discussion - that's worth one more revival in my book.</p>