Homeschooling is SUCH a JOKE!

Pre-College Issues Home Schooling and College
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<p>“Homeschooled kids may get all those things you are talking about but they seriously lack in life experiences.”</p>

<p>I can’t speak generally, but for my family homeschooling has given freedom to get involved with our community far more than I was ever able to do as a public schooler. We have a lot of people who need help in the community, and since my kids are always around, they are naturally the ones people depend upon for assistance. In the course of dealing with a wide variety of individuals, my children have learned a variety of approaches to people. So I don’t think my kids lack real life experiences. I do think they have adopted a personal culture that is different from what has become the norm for teens, and that this may cause some non-homeschoolers to feel uncomfortable around them.</p>

<p>Last night our pastor called me about a problem with his computer. When I was done with the conversation, my wife asked what it was all about and I mentioned that the pastor had a corrupt file. On hearing this, my 16year-old son scowled and with a deep voice said, “Ack! Corruption in the Church!” to which we all fell apart in laughter. We wondered aloud what my son’s friend’s thought of his sense of humor. He said his friends’ way of humor is typically too crude and even profane for them to appreciate his style. And, you know, I have noticed this myself. So while my son enjoys and gets along very well with public-schoolers, he feels different. And they know there is something different about him. They may misinterpret the difference as naivety or a “lack of experience”, but in fact it is nothing of the sort.</p>

<p>“They are sheltered. While you may say football games, prom and exposure to drinking and drugs (and the choice to do them or not) and anything else "aren't important" or are "bad", you are just plain wrong. People need to grow up and not be so sheltered by their parents.”</p>

<p>I think it is worth saying here that for the majority of its history the world has done okay without football games, proms, and underage drinking. So I can see why someone might think these activities are unimportant. But I think I see what you are trying to say. There are certain cultural rites of passage common to public-schoolers that homeschoolers typically miss. I nevertheless think homeschoolers can and typically do experience these sorts of rites, but by different means and, in my children’s cases, for apparently different purposes.</p>

<p>The purpose of rites, in my view, is to conduct children toward responsible adulthood. My kids have never had premarital sex, never participated in alcohol abuse, never done drugs or had opportunities to choose these things. But I do not think it is necessary that kids be forced, as part of a rite of passage, to make these choices while they are kids. My oldest child was, as you say “sheltered”, having only recently had the opportunity to do the things mentioned above. But now she is mature enough to judge wisely. She sees more clearly what is at stake. Therefore, she has swiftly dismissed these destructive behaviors. Also, she knows they are not the activities of her peer group, which consists of such people as her mother, her boss, our pastor, our pastor’s wife, business men and women, doctors, lawyers, and myself. Basically, my daughter has transitioned into adulthood so that she now identifies more with our interests and less with the interests of immature teens. It is true that our rites of passage did not include football games, but (crossing fingers) they appear to work very well– so far.</p>

<p>”While home schooling may be right in certain situations (such as a terrible public hs, or other extraneous circumstances) I'd go so far as to say that it is generally useless and restrictive on "growing up" in the world that the kid will soon live in.”</p>

<p>I think this generalization is much too broad and unsupported. I suspect, as with most things in life, schooling, whether done at home or in the public, depends upon the people involved and their unique circumstances. It is what you make of it. For me it was a matter of probabilities. I think my circumstances are such that were I to have chosen the public schools (despite that they are supposed to be really great), my children would have succumbed to the same pathologies and academic problems that virtually surround us. I don’t say this smugly. I am just a simple guy with hardly anything to show for being alive except my family. What I am trying to put forth is that there are a lot of people who, like me, could really benefit from homeschooling despite our limitations (financial, intellectual, and otherwise), but who summarily dismiss it because of the mistaken beliefs of the prevailing culture.</p>

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<p>We turned toward home education after the 3 year old church school that my wife help to start could not fund a high school.</p>

<p>We were forced to do things backward by home schooling for the 3 HS years. My son started in public school and finished the seventh grade there. Two years in the church school and then at home.</p>

<p>The time saved by home schooling enabled greater opportunities for EC's and developing his illustration skills. He tried fencing for about a year but a reoccurring shoulder injury made that temporary.</p>

<p>In his gap year he volunteered at the RNC in Madison Square Garden where he assisted the Secret Service in screening attendees.
He also drew some covers for children's books which were NY Times best sellers. He interned in the medieval department in the Metropolitan Museum (he just applied for the Cloisters Internship).</p>

<p>Many of our friends are his friends (police officers, pastors, etc) so his peer interaction was a bit different than most. </p>

<p>He also has maintained relationships made in junior high with 3 friends.
One in Harvard, one in Columbia, and the last in Dartmouth.</p>

<p>He is in Princeton (thank the Lord):)</p>

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<p>Home schooling is a waste. What, do you think your kids too good for public schools or even private schools? I totally agree with the OP that home schooling is a joke even if I get flamed.</p>

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<p>For many parents of gifted students there may be no alternative other than to home school.
Many school districts are seriously underfunded when it comes to gifted programs. The money sometimes has to flow to the special ed programs.</p>

<p>If you read the posts from home schooling parents on this board you will find they have opted for this form of education while still supporting public education for the rest.</p>

<p>Some home schooling parents are certified teachers who have opted out of the system for their kids.</p>

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<p>LW ~ If you have reservations about homeschooling, let them out! Don't hold back!</p>

<p>My home schooled son pulled a 1590 on his SAT1...how did you do?</p>

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<p>Hmm, while my two personal experiences with homeschoolers are pretty negative, it's good to see that a lot of homeschoolers aren't "socially inept" and are well rounded. A lot of people brought up examples such as Thomas Jefferson or Einstein who were homeschooled -- but you have to take certain factors into account, such as during TJ's time, there was little to NO public education (it's why he created UVA!), and Einstein... well. Einstein was a little too smart for the public; wouldn't it be a little arrogant to compare yourself to him? 8)</p>

<p>However, two of my closest friends were/are homeschooled. One was pulled out of school because of her father's death - possibly the worst decision that could have been made. When she decided to go to highschool, she had trouble interacting. However, she <em>did</em> excel academically and eventually started dating and made a close group fo friends. My other friend was pulled out of school early on (1st grade or so) for religious (very Baptist family) and academic (awful schools) reasons. While she is taking classes in subjects she adores (art, flute, etc) and has time for a job, she also has to follow a core curriculum - so take note that while many of you were blessed to have a relaxed curriculum, she still has to take the required sciences, maths, etc. So not all homeschoolers have these amazing arrays of choices that many of you had :( also, she has no offline friends besides her cousins and one or two outside her church group. I hope that she'll make more when she goes to college, as she's a pretty likeable person, but eh. </p>

<p>Personally, I think it depends heavily on your surrounding school system, too. A lot of people have touted the benefits of homeschooling, which include more involved with the community, relaxed curriculum, and just more time in general. Honestly, at my school, I don't see any lack of those things! If classes aren't available at my school, we have the option of taking online classes, community college courses, or taking a bus to another highschool for Academy courses like veterinary sciences or engineering courses. There is no shortage of community service at my school - most AP/honor students volunteer at their church, the hospital, or even in Boy/Girl Scouts. There's even the "work study" options for students with less-full schedules and part-time jobs. As for a relaxed curriculum, I will admit that I find the requirements a little stifling, but it just makes me look forward to college even more!</p>

<p>I pretty much agree that highschool has things that homeschooling doesn't have - I'm surrounded by vastly different peers who I can get along with and argue with in a classroom setting, dealing with idiots around me (let's face it, the majority of the population is below average in the intelligence department), awesome sports teams (our football team won state's two years ago :D), a kick*** band/orch/chorus and AMAZING theatre department, dealing with incompetent bureacracy and corrupt administration (hey, I've heard <em>many</em> people complain about this problem in their colleges and workplaces - this is a life skill here, people! :), and learning to both assimilate and stand out in a school with 3200+ people. </p>

<p>Of course, homeschooling has its advantages over public schooling as well, but I think those have been accurately covered by other members :)</p>

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<p>LW,
Homeschoolers can't be smarter than their parents?? Do you really think that all homeschoolers do is sit at home while Mommy teaches them? My boys took community college and other outside classes. One son studied Japanese--I don't speak a word of Japanese. Another took up trumpet, and I don't play trumpet. There are many ways to homeschool, and many of them are outside the home.</p>

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<p>Hold on a second hun. Think about what it's called...home schooling...schooling done at home. You therefore are not truly homeschooling.</p>

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<p>Oh, for pity's sake, how many times do we have to go over the same arguments? If people want to come here and bash homeschooling, at least they should do their homework and read what people have said so far. Then we might have an argument that at least goes forward. The fact that new people choose to come and post in this offensively titled thread says it all.</p>

<p>The studies about academic achievement, social abilities, and community engagement remain unrefuted. I'm not going to go over all that or why we homeschooled and how successful it was for a new set of trolls.</p>

<p>I do agree that learning to deal with bureaucracy is an important life skill. My daughter is currently working her way up the "dean ladder" at Brown and has not seemed lacking in ability to do so.</p>

<p>She also in her ECs during high school dealt with a far more diverse range of people than she would have met in public school. She took classes or participated in clubs where she could discuss and argue. Best of all, she got a far better education than she could have in our local school.</p>

<p>Homeschooling isn't best for everyone. There is no one size fits all in education. I don't see what those who aren't homeschooled feel the need to come here and question the concept generally, or try to say it is only warranted in certain situations. Methinks they doth protest too much ... why so defensive, I wonder?</p>

<p>What's wrong with letting people decide for themselves what's best?</p>

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<p>Control freak? I dare say my daughter had far more control over her education than you have had in yours. She could pick her courses, designing ones that local schools don't carry. She could chose her texts or drop texts she didn't like. She start "class" and end it each day when she wanted. She could pick what correspondence or other outside courses she wanted. She could come up with her own paper topics. She didn't have to do any make work homework assignments; if she thought a particular assignment in a text was dumb, she didn't do it.</p>

<p>What's most important is that she chose to be homeschooled. She was miserable in public school and asked to leave. The ones who were controlling her destiny were the public school educrats who were holding her back. I've already told the story once; I won't do so again.</p>

<p>And, uh, it is called homeschooling because the ultimate authority as to what is done is at home, not because all courses are at home. Most homeschoolers do take outside courses, be they correspondence, online, coop, tutors, community or 4 year college, etc.</p>

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<p>As hard as it is to admit......</p>

<p>My son is smarter than I am and probably my wife:)</p>

<p>LW is a troll who has rudely posted all over CC.</p>

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<p>Well, when people claim that homeschooling is a "load of crap," naturally homeschoolers will defend it.</p>

<p>But we can't defend ourselves because that is "conceited."</p>

<p>We haven't called public education a "load of crap." So who is being arrogant and conceited? Who is the "control freak" trying to dictate the decisions other people make in their own lives?</p>

<p>Psychologist call this projection -- accusing people of one's own faults.</p>

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<p>I'm just floored that so many people have nothing better to do than to come and bash homeschoolers on our own board!</p>

<p>And they think WE need lives!!! :)</p>

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<p>I think the public schools are wonderful in many cases and that they serve a very useful purpose. But I am convinced by my own experience, by that of my current neighborhood and by the neighborhood of my youth, that too often they cannot address the pressing needs of their students. Understand, this is not to say that public education is evil. I truly applaud what teachers are doing; but the “one size fits all” approach to education works about as well as one size fits all trousers. They work very well for some folks, but for a whole lot of folks they are just atrocious. I think the civilized solution is a complex educational system that allows freedom of choice. I also think its participants should seek to respect others’ decisions. I don’t see why I must hate the public school system if my children are not compelled to attend it. I suppose one might feel inclined to complain about the public schools because one is taxed for them, and I think this is legitimate because we have a right to complain about how taxes are spent. But I still don’t see that one necessarily has the duty, as a homeschooler, to despise public education in principle. Additionally, I cannot understand why public school proponents should be so bitter about how I choose to educate my own kids. I mean c’mon man, does that make any sense at all?</p>

<p>“A lot of people have touted the benefits of homeschooling, which include more involved with the community, relaxed curriculum, and just more time in general. Honestly, at my school, I don't see any lack of those things!”</p>

<p>I think this is quite excellent, and I am sincerely glad to hear it. Are you able to choose your own textbooks? My daughter began calculus last semester using Saxon Calculus and almost immediately began to scoff that the book was so intent on not letting her know what was going on mathematically, that it made study a real pain. So she used her own money to buy a much better text and fulfilled my calculus requirement a semester ahead of schedule. Just think about this. My teenaged daughter spent about $100 of her own money to get herself a calculus text that she could enjoy. You might imagine that in spending that much money, she researched, double researched and called a lot of professors to get the lowdown on the quality of that book! Because of that one bit of freedom, she has made a breakthrough in her education. This never would have happened had my daughter been forced to attend the public schools. She likely would have languished away into the pit of mediocrity and been expected to do so.</p>

<p>I don’t claim homeschooling is generally superior to public schooling. I don’t have any sort of ability or need to make such comparisons. In your case, a change in math textbooks would probably have been unnecessary, for example. And so public schooling would have been the thing for you. But for us, homeschooling seems the better educational option.</p>

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<p>Nope, our school provides our textbooks for us, and so far they've made great choices (especially in the case of AP chem). Though I don't find myself using them very often because my teachers lecture very well :) it's good that your daughter was able to do that, though, because I've had friends who can't stand reading the somewhat-dry US History textbooks for extra information.</p>

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<p>I'm glad when I hear of any educational setting working for anyone. If your textbooks are good, that's wonderful.</p>

<p>I personally found many high school level texts to be lousy. But AP texts are for colleges and so they have to appeal to people who know the subject, rather than politicians.</p>

<p>One thing a number of homeschooling parents do is the frequent the AP Central web site and discussion boards for teachers of particular AP subjects. That's how I learned about a number of texts.</p>

<p>Yes, it is very hard to find a good US History text. So many political pressures come to bear on the decision! Do you happen to know what they use -- just curious. I really liked the Teaching Company lecture series on US History (first edition -- the second is too jingoistic for my taste) so I emailed the first lecturing professor for a textbook selection.</p>

<p>For people who want a refreshing look at US history, try Loewen, Lies My Teacher Told Me -- a look at what standard high school history texts get wrong about US history.</p>

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<p>Oh, yeah, high school level textbooks are pretty bad when it comes to history - however, I haven't had to use one since freshmen year :) this year, we actually ordered a new set of textbooks. </p>

<p>old set:
Enduring Vision
A History of the American People, Fourth Edition by... well, a lot of people. It's published by the Houghton-Mifflin Company if you absolutely want to check it out. </p>

<p>new set:
American History: A Survey, 11th Edition by Alan Brinkley</p>

<p>Both versions (as well as the AP World textbook, which was written by Buliet, I believe) are actually not too bad for history textbooks. I guess anything's dry when you're cramming three+ chapters in one night ;)</p>

<p>Also, if any homeschoolers want to buy a really good AP Chem book -- get Zumdahl, 5th+ edition :D</p>

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<p>Yes, Brinkley is very good. It is a popular choice for homeschoolers. We ended up using a different Brinkley book that is a little shorter since we did history chronologically, not geographically. So there was world history to get through for the same period.</p>

<p>Indeed, AP texts are better because they are college level. College texts have to appeal to experts in the field and are chosen by the teachers themselves -- makes all the difference I think.</p>

<p>I've heard of Zumdahl too. Lots of people like it. But we ended up using a college text for nonmajors because dd wasn't interested in taking the AP test. Also we liked the text because it had experiments doable with common household items and explained things well. I found a bunch of texts and she read through the description of something in each one -- the clearest won.</p>

<p>If there are any homeschoolers here who don't know, if you register on AP Central in the College Board web site, you can get access to reviews of different AP books. You can also sign up for discussion groups with teachers for each subject. I didn't participate much (other than some political discussions on the AP English board -- those guys can be argumentative! I mean that in a good way); it was another way to research texts, though. Search on a name and you see what teachers thought of it.</p>

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<p>Thinking about it, I was afraid that the intended tone of my last post might be misunderstood. It was nice of you to go to the bother of sharing the textbooks you liked, cimmoresque. That was nice of you ... I was doing something else and started thinking that I might have come across as a little snotty. Not my intent.</p>

<p>I was trying to compliment your taste in textbooks!</p>

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<p>Actually, DianeR, your fine intent seemed pretty clear to me. And thanks for mentioning these texts. I think you are very right about the political fear and influence on history books. We have pulled our hair out for so long about history that we actually wrote our own text. It seems many authors think jingoistic enthusiasm will get folks really attached to their books. In the end it just gets in the way. We tried a few history (and biology) books from a publisher I won't name and that is popular with homeschoolers, and after going through a few chapters decided their stuff was just too loaded with bias. Even though we agreed with much of it, we couldn't help but be turned off. In many cases, my kids just laughed outright.</p>

<p>I'll check out your history recommendations because I think our program could probably use a little help.</p>