<p>I know West Point has that a cadet will not lie,cheat or steal, and adds the "nor tolerate those who do", expanding the breadth of a potential violation. Do the other academies have the same? And I'm told USMA is a zero-tolerance, violation=separation, resulting inthe loss of about 25 cadets a year. What is USNA like?</p>
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<p>At USMA you would go before the Honor Board. If you are “found” then you are not necessarily separated. Your case goes before the Superintendent who may separate you or turn you back for a year or a half a year. It all depends on the case - there are many factors involved.</p>
<p>The USNA does not have an “Honor Code”- it has an “Honor Concept.”</p>
<p>Midshipmen are also “persons of character- they do not lie, cheat or steal, or tolerate those that do.”</p>
<p>The Midshipmen Regs go over, in great detail, how to operationalize the Honor Concept, and there are many lectures and discussions focused on Honor that you will get not only as a Plebe, but throughout your time at the Academy. Infractions can be anything from demerits and in-company repremand, all the way up to seperation, depending on the circumstances and facts, as determined by the Company officer, Conduct Board, Honor Board, and up the Chain of Command, all of whom will review the investigative findings and consider the recommendations at each level. </p>
<p>Lying, stealing, cheating- all serious violations that can land you in a heap of trouble, including seperation from the academy.</p>
<p>One of the major difference between USMA’s and USNA’s view on honor is:</p>
<p>At USMA, if you know that someone committed an honor offense and you don’t report it, you are just as guilty. In other words, the person who did not report the offense has also committed an honor violation.</p>
<p>At USNA, if you know that someone committed an honor offense and you don’t report it, it is a conduct offense, not an honor offense.</p>
<p>I can’t speak for USMA on this, but at USNA, honor offenses, depending on the seriousness and aggravation of the infraction, is handled at the lowest level. For example, as a 2/C we noted that two of our squad’s plebes had signed the initials for a 1/C comearound, when it did not really occur (i.e. they lied about having a discussion period with a 1/C about the week’s professional topic). Instead of sending the plebe to a Brigade Honor Board, it was handled at the company level.</p>
<p>Why is this good? It empowers the company and individual MIDN to uphold honor and it allows for a second chance. It also allows the reporting of an honor offense (i.e. MIDN will feel more comfortable coming forward). One of the hardest things to do is report a classmate for an honor offense, knowing that they might be separated.</p>
<p>USNA Honor Concept [Officer</a> Development](<a href=“http://www.usna.edu/OfficerDevelopment/honor/honorconcept.html]Officer”>http://www.usna.edu/OfficerDevelopment/honor/honorconcept.html)</p>
<p>"Midshipmen are persons of integrity: They stand for that which is right.</p>
<p>They tell the truth and ensure that the full truth is known. They do not lie.</p>
<p>They embrace fairness in all actions. They ensure that work submitted as their own is their own, and that assistance received from any source is authorized and properly documented. They do not cheat. </p>
<p>They respect the property of others and ensure that others are able to benefit from the use of their own property. They do not steal."</p>
<p>I don’t think Navy includes the part about tolerating among us those who do…
I always thought that was the big difference. Could be wrong, though…</p>
<p>^^^ it’s in there- perhaps not stated as up-front as USMA, but there never the less.
a large part of the difference is how the offense can be addressed, as Jadler pointed out.</p>
<p>Hey everyone,</p>
<p>I am very interested in everyone’s view on honor. I’ll be working with the Brigade next semester on the honor staff (4 stripes), so I’ll be here to field questions.</p>
<p>All cases are processed and administered by midshipmen. Many mids feel that honor has “softened” over the years especially after the EE cheating scandal and when the Naval Academy started to become more diverse in its endeavors, and I tend to agree.</p>
<p>It used to be that if you were found in violation, midshipmen THEMSELVES packed your bags and they were left outside gate one for you to pick up when you left.</p>
<p>The problem we have now is that the Brigade has no ownership of their honor concept. As a staff, we’ll be trying to give it back to the Brigade this semester and trying to show everyone that the honor concept is really the Brigade’s, and not the honor staff’s. We were elected (in a way) by our peers to represent the Brigade’s concerns on honor. </p>
<p>In the past (particularly Class of 2009) the staff has had the right idea about trying to revise the honor concept to fit the Brigade’s needs. 2009 made the most obvious push to make that happen. The Honor Staff of 2010 is going to create a climate that gives honor back to the Brigade by showing them that the staff’s job is to facillitate honor by cultivating it into our daily lives like it used to be. Honor is a foundation of everything we do, not just a few lectures during plebe summer and a few other times while we’re there.</p>
<p>It’s about Col. Ripley who hung from the bottom of a bridge for 3 hours so that he could line a bridge with explosives to thwart an enemy attack of 25,000. It’s about Admiral Stockdale and John McCain who didn’t give up information so that their comrades would not be compromised. It’s about Ross Perot who lost the Presidential Election because he did the right thing by telling Americans what they needed to hear instead of what they wanted to hear.</p>
<p>If people have questions about the process, I’ll answer them. Basically, this year’s honor staff plays for Team USA, so what the American people want and expect will be implemented into how we go about things. Getting the word out about honor is healthy and only helps our fighting force. I look forward to hearing back.</p>
<p>Brigade Honor Advisor for Investigations Ac-Year 2010</p>
<p>Was just wondering what everyone’s view on this was, seems like the thread went dead.</p>
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are you referring to the “EE cheating scandal” at USMA or was there one at USNA as well?</p>
<p>Nevermind, I found the answer. interesting.</p>
<p>“Seperation” should be spelled “Separation.”</p>