<p>University of Delaware, University of Maryland and Ohio University</p>
<p>My comment about graduating from SHC at Penn State: Penn State has the best alumni network in the world, period. I have never heard of people having any problems getting jobs anywhere, especially from SHC. No, SHC isn't entirely well known to the general population (yet! haha), but if you get hooked up with someone from PSU they'll know about the SHC. It really depends on what you're doing from each public university, too... engineering or business, say from Penn State/SHC, you'll have zero problems at all.</p>
<p>Also, I'd like to point out that SHC's graduate school placement record is incredible, hands down, if you're not looking to go straight into the job market.</p>
<p>And that's my short rebuttal in favor of Penn State SHC. ^_^</p>
<p>I think state honors colleges are not well understood
and terribly undervalued by a lot of students.
These are well kept secrets, great value for your money.
Look at what you get for $ <50% of private colleges:
- smaller classes where profs teach, some even in freshman year
- smaller learning/living community of top tier students
with access to profs, GC's, tutors
- internships and study abroad opportunities
- grads sought after by hiring companies
- good shot at top graduate programs even at Ivys</p>
<p>To a prospective college freshman who is deciding whether to attend an honors college, I would say "don't apply to an honors college unless you have to attend a public university for financial reasons". If you can get into an honors college at a second tier university, then you could get into a much better university. It would be a shame to fall short of your potential because you were persuaded by marketing hype. To me, it is common sense. Why attend a program at Podunk that tries to be like Harvard when you could simply go to Harvard and get the real thing? </p>
<p>If you are already at an honors college, it is probably too late to change, so make the best of it.</p>
<p>To a prospective college freshman who is deciding whether to attend an honors college, I would say do apply to the honors programs at state universities of your choice along with any other first tier private universities you care to. (Blaw's comments regarding state university honors college/program advantages are accurate.) Then visit the various universities/colleges you are accepted to and make your choice. My bet is that state university honors colleges would more than hold their own in such comparisons for most students (in the combination of lower total cost, academic programs offered, grad/med/law school placement, etc.) Don't let the hype of "name brand" colleges dissuade you from checking out the gems of state university honors colleges/programs throughout the country.</p>
<p>collegehelp- I completely disagree with your post. Of course a state u honors college can't completely compare with a top LAC or Ivy. So what? Balance out the price, the opportunity for a diverse environment and big-time college athletics, and I can see where a top student would choose the honors college. The main problem I see is that you will not be AS surrounded by "like-minded peers", especially when you are functioning outside the honors college. However, after the first year or two, when you settle into your major, that problem goes away. S is a recruited athlete and may wind up at an Ivy or top LAC. However, he is also applying to three big state universities, one of which he is incredibly excited about- as are we! He is not a shoo-in for the honors college there, but would likely get some nice merit money anyway. I can't say I would shed tears if we don't have to pay $40K a year!</p>
<p>Collegehelp we don't all have the money to accept the offers of admission at the best school we get into. I agree with momofwildchild</p>
<p>I am quite sensitive to the family financial constraints. Many families look only at the sticker price at a college without considering the gift aid, work study, and loans that are available at private colleges. It is a shame when lower income families don't realize this and assume that a private college is beyond their means. Private colleges make themselves affordable. Only the very wealthiest families are "full-pays". Almost nobody pays 40K.</p>
<p>I made my remarks in good conscience. Universities have powerful and sophisticated marketing machines. Universities are not much better than car sales people. They don't have the student's best interest at heart. They want your money. Honors colleges take advantage of students who don't know any better. The benefits of attending the "real deal" rather than the lookalike are many. I just hate it when marketers take advantage of people. I have the best interests of the students at heart.</p>
<p>Collegehelp - Obviously, you and I have had different experiences relative to state honors colleges. My experience on the CC board and recruiting at two college fair nights says that - if anything - state honors colleges are woefully under-publicized. Here are several "for instances". I am a graduate of a brand name, first tier university, the University of Chicago. I have advised numerous students to apply to the U of C who are disposed toward the kind of educational experience UC offers. On the other hand, I have also advised students to apply to state honors colleges, especially if they express concern about how to pay for the brand name school. As I noted in my post above, apply to both the state honors colleged and the brand name schools and then choose between the two if accepted. In one instance, a CC board student from Wisconsin was concerned about whether his family could afford the University of Chicago (because his family's income was high). I responded that I love the U of C (which I do) but had he checked out the honors programs at the University of Wisconsin - Madison. (I then listed the website addresses for honors programs at UW - Madison.) Well, this high achieving, high scoring student resplied that he did not know that UW had honors programs in his prospective fields of study and he was definitely going to apply after having broused UW's website.</p>
<p>Another example, while recruiting for my son's state university at two college fair nights, several high achieving seniors at various times during the two nights said to me "what's an honors college?" after I introduced the subject to them.</p>
<p>Finally, my son's experience from a year ago - until I inadvertently stumbled onto the honors college portion of his state university's website he had no intention/idea of applying to it. After his acceptance the choice was between a fine private university and the state honors college. He chose the honors college and it has proven to be everything it had proclaimed. The small classes with interesting and interested professors have lit his academic fires. I am now both a convert to state honors colleges as solid alternatives to name brand colleges/universities and an active proselytizer for their benefits.</p>
<p>As for whether lower income students are steered toward state honors colleges versus name brand private universities and colleges, my personal experience regarding the little publicity many state honors programs receive causes me to doubt this assertion.</p>
<p>If a student prefers the large public university experience (as many do) then by all means go. And if, after choosing to go there, you can attend the honors college then do so. The public ivies like Wisconsin are great universities and offer an experience that suits many students. </p>
<p>But I do not think a student who really wanted an elite private college should be swayed by the honors college at a public. The honors college is not really a separate college. I wouldn't go to any public BECAUSE of the honors college. Your diploma will say the name of that college. Your resume' will say the name of that college. You will always be a graduate of that college. </p>
<p>It seems so obvious to me but it is hard to explain. Say you really wanted to own a Lincoln Continental. Say I took the drivers seat out of a Lincoln Continental and put it in a Chevy Cavalier. Then I told you to buy the Chevy instead of the Lincoln because you could have some of the same experience as driving a Lincoln and it will cost you less. That's how ridiculous honors colleges seem to me. </p>
<p>By themselves, honors colleges may provide a better experience than the rest of the students at the public university are getting. But, the honors student would have had a much better experience at a different university where his or her SAT scores were in the midrange rather than in the top five percent. It has to do with the ambience, the prestige, the quality of your fellow students, the quality of the faculty, pride in your college and in yourself, the maturity and work ethic in the people around you, and so on.</p>
<p>leaving cost aside, let's say you had a choice between two public colleges.
Prairie State University Honors College or
University of Wisconsin (no honors college)
Where would you go?</p>
<p>I am not trying to demean public universities. I am saying that saving some money in an honors college at a public university is a bad trade-off when you really want the experience of an Ivy or a Stanford or a Swarthmore. Don't be fooled by honors colleges. There is much more to the experience at an elite college than small class sizes, and the other amenities claimed by honors colleges. If you pass up the college of your dreams to save some money in the short term at an honors college you may kick yourself 20 years from now. Penny wise-pound foolish.</p>
<p>Aren't debates fun? You're right...You baited the hook with these remarks and I bit. "But, the honors student would have had a much better experience at a different university where his or her SAT scores were in the midrange rather than in the top five percent. It has to do with the ambience, the prestige, the quality of your fellow students, the quality of the faculty, pride in your college and in yourself, the maturity and work ethic in the people around you, and so on.</p>
<p>leaving cost aside, let's say you had a choice between two public colleges.
Prairie State University Honors College or
University of Wisconsin (no honors college)
Where would you go?"</p>
<p>Let's take the flip side to the coin. Would a student rather be a big fish in a small pond at a Prairie State University (or Oklahoma State or Clemson or Kansas State) honors college with special treatment and privileges surrounded by like students in a small college atmosphere or would you rather be in the thousands of freshman/sophomore fish undistinguished in the sea of the large lecture halls with hundreds of similarly skilled students (like Wisconsin, Texas, Texas A&M, etc.) Give me Prairie State University any time (which is exactly what I urge students in Texas). And Prairie State University (or Texas Tech or Kansas State or Oklahoma State) regularly produce national scholarship winners such as Goldwater Scholars, Gates-Cambridge, and Truman Scholars. And then numerous state university honors college grads go on to the Chicago's and Stanfords and Ivies for grad/law/med school. Oops, I forgot, they saved a little money and got fooled along the way, though.</p>
<p>Most of the Flagship State University honors programs have small classes and close relationships to faculty. Many offer research opportunities that many of the privates do not. If one is seriously considering graduate or professional school, then where one goes to undergrad school is often of little importance years down the road. In the past 25 years I can't think of one time when I was asked where I went to undergrad school. Grad school, yes, undergrad no. Further, if one has a clear idea of what one is likely to do, then often the State U programs are superior, and will serve getting into a top grad program better than attending an Ivy. One needs to do their homework and carefully consider all alternatives, and find the what serves one's interest the best.</p>
<p>Does anyone know anything about Mizzou's honors college? I would automatically be admitted into it and am considering studying journalism at the school (by many, it's regarded as the best in the country) and was wondering if any of you knew what it was like.</p>