<p>Well, months of research and talks with my son are starting to jell into a list of colleges he'll be applying to, and I think I can already see what the big decision is going to come down to. I sure would appreciate your thoughts.</p>
<p>Between concurrent credit courses, AP credit, and his likely National Merit status, one of his options is likely to be a full scholarship to the flagship State U, automatic admission to the Honors College, and enough credit to allow him to finish his bachelor's degree in two years plus a summer, OR to graduate in three or four years with a ton of flexibility in coursework, the possibility for two or three majors, extra time for study abroad, etc.</p>
<p>The other option is likely to be a much more highly-regarded college that will take the full four years and result in some amount of debt, plus less likelihood of studying abroad (due to the money we'd be putting into tuition).</p>
<p>Our flagship State U is on the low end of US News's Tier 1, respectable and nationally recognized but far from elite.</p>
<p>Here is my bias: If the choice is between State U or paying for HYPS (or equivalent), then we're paying for HYPS. If the choice is between State U or paying for, say, below top-twenty, then I'm pushing for State U (or asking my son to take on more of the financial burden of the more elite college than I might otherwise ask).</p>
<p>I know this has been addressed to some extent in the thread about full scholarships at so-so colleges, but I'm hoping that with a few additional details about our own situation, you'll have some insights about our particular case.</p>
<p>By the way, his main interest is the physical sciences, he will study abroad if at all possible, and I think there’s a 95+% chance of graduate school. I know these things will weigh in the decision as well.</p>
<p>Am I missing something? Your son hasn’t applied anywhere yet, so where’s the big decision? Sounds like he’s already got a great safety option identified (he’ll get in, you can afford it, he can get excited about attending) so all you need to do is explore a few more options and roll the dice.</p>
<p>Why are you getting worked up over the grad school, physical sciences, study abroad? He may do all of those things; he may do none of those things. Don’t put the cart before the horse!</p>
<p>1) Your son may also receive scholarships and merit money at a non-HYPS school which could have a significant impact on the discussion. $20k debt at graduation to attend a school that is a better fit is very different from $120k.</p>
<p>2) Fit is still important: Can he get the education he needs (not necessarily ‘wants’) in the state school honors program? Will he thrive in what is usually a very ‘big school’ environment? What are his alternatives? The state school honors program is only a bargain if he can get the education he is seeking.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t cross any bridges until you have to: Let him apply with the understanding that you are able to pay only ‘x’ amount and the rest is his responsibility. Until he’s admitted and has his FA packages, there are no decisions to make. And as long as you are clear up front, he will have appropriate expectations when the results roll in.</p>
<p>This is YOUR family’s decision. If you do NOT plan to pay for some specific school without financial aid…if your child gets accepted…PLEASE tell him that before he applies. I personally think this information should be shared up front. </p>
<p>However, I will say…HYP are not for every student and that top 50 school may be just the right one for your child. If you are willing to pay for HYP…and this other school really IS a great school for your kid, why won’t you pay for it? Is it because the prestige of HYP is worth the price? That’s certainly your decision…but personally, I don’t agree with it.</p>
<p>A fair question. We have visited State U and were impressed. I believe it is a good fit for my son, and I think he agrees, although I can’t be sure how he really feels deep down, of course. In short, the answer is yes, I’m willing to pay for prestige. If State U and, say, Yale seem like equally good fits, I’d pay more for the cachet of a degree from Yale, but not for, say, Wake Forest. Something like that.</p>
<p>Point taken about being up-front with my son about what I’ll pay for. I will make a point of doing that. Thank you.</p>
<p>Just get ready…there are a LOT of very successful alums from Wake Forest who would take issue with your NOT paying for Wake but paying for Yale.</p>
<p>But as I said…it’s your family decision…not mine.</p>
<p>Here, we put a dollar amount on what we would pay…we did NOT tell the kids which schools to apply to or limit their choices otherwise.</p>
<p>You say there’s a 95 percent chance of graduate school, but you don’t say what kind of graduate school.</p>
<p>If your son ends up in a Ph.D. program, he shouldn’t have to pay for graduate school. They will pay him (not much, but you can live on it if you’re careful). </p>
<p>If he ends up in some other type of graduate program, however, he may have to pay for it. This changes the overall financial situation drastically.</p>
<p>I see your point and I think a lot of people have similar views - i.e. being willing to pay a premium for the top-ranked HYPS vs a top-tier State U but not being willing to pay a high premium for a private that might not be as highly ranked (along with visibility and sometimes potential employer recognition) as the State U. IMO it makes sense as long as factors like choice of major, ability to graduate in a reasonable time, campus size, location, ‘general fit’ (whatever that may be) etc. aren’t compromised too much. </p>
<p>An example might be comparing UCLA vs. USC for a California resident where they might be comparing a cost difference of $25K/yr for UCLA vs. >50K/yr (assuming no finAid/grants) for USC when many would argue that UCLA is ranked higher in many areas. But of course there are other differences and some people choose the latter even when presented with both choices and are facing the big cost difference for in-state with no finAid.</p>
<p>So on one hand it’s like choosing a Lexus vs. a Toyota where they’ll both get you there just fine but one has features that some people are willing to pay for as compared to a Lexus vs. a Bentley where the former might arguably be the better car in most respects yet some people are still willing to pay for the exclusivity of the Bentley. </p>
<p>Given a 95% chance of going on to grad school where he’d have to pay, one should seriously plan the finances all the way out and not blow the family fortune on UG.</p>
<p>Grad school- my kids and their friends did the following:</p>
<p>fully funded PhD; military paid (great deal for med/surgical); merit scholarship for law school (go down a scootch in selectivity and the $ amount increases dramatically-- Harvard Yale and Stanford don’t give merit money for law school but everyone else does, including Columbia, Duke, etc.); employer paid grad school (b school, law school, master’s in public policy, master’s in public health; master’s in speech/language,etc.) Teach for America and similar (pay for master’s in education); work for a few years and “pay as you go”, etc.</p>
<p>I would not make an undergrad decision based on some far away scenario; I think the average age of a grad student in the US is 28 years old… you/re making a grad school decision for a 17 year old?</p>
<p>Same here. If he can get college done for less than that amount, it will go towards grad school. We want him to seriously consider fit and the name doesn’t have a thing to do with that.</p>
<p>Well…we also told our kids that they were on the four year plan on our dime. Any schooling after four years was on THEIR dime. This included undergrad. We did not and will not finance grad school at all. Kids are on their own for that one.</p>
<p>Oh, no, I’m certainly not making a grad school decision for my son. I just know what his career interests are, and I’m 95% sure it will involved graduate school, and that he won’t have to pay for it. (I should have mentioned that, too.)</p>
<p>And regardless, the grad school decision won’t be mine at all. It will be his. He’s on his own at that point and will surely be capable of sorting it all out for himself by then.</p>
<p>thumper1 and pugmadkate, I like your idea of offering a fixed amount for college, be it undergrad or grad school, and letting him decide from there. I’ll have another one to pay for in a few years, so that sort of budgeting makes sense for us.</p>
<p>Please keep your opinions coming; this is so helpful.</p>
<p>My point above has to do with the notion of the stewardship of fixed parental resources allocated to post secondary ed in anticipation of grad school expenses. $x for hotshot UG vs. $x less some amount for “less prestigious” UG and help with grad school.</p>
<p>Suppose the in-state option is a well regarded school like Minnesota or Illinois, and the alternative is a private national university in the top 50 but not in the top 15. In that case, if the o-o-p cost difference is more than, say, the median cost of new car, I’d have a hard time justifying that extra cost, too.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if the alternative is a liberal arts college in the USNWR #15-#50 zone, and it’s clear my kid would fit much better at a LAC, then I think a reasonable amount of extra expense is justified. </p>
<p>That zone includes some well-regarded schools such as Smith, Oberlin, Bryn Mawr, Barnard, Macalester, Bates, and Whitman. Some kids do turn down more prestigious schools to attend these colleges. They offer an experience that is distinctly different than you are likely to find at most state universities. If the extra cost is not a unreasonable financial burden, it may be worth it. </p>
<p>What’s “unreasonable”? Total debt on the order of a new car loan seems reasonable to me. That’s about a 5 year debt. Debt on the order of a mortgage loan is not reasonable. That’s a 15 or 30 year debt. I’m referring to total debt after finaid, college savings, and ~10 hrs./week student employment (no more) are factored in.</p>
<p>In other words, set a limit for the out-of-pocket difference that you can translate into tangible terms your kid can easily grasp. Then step back and let this be (within those limits) your kid’s decision. It is the first adult choice he or she will have to make. Better that first hard choice be a college, not a spouse.</p>
<p>Mantori, the way you feel is the way many parents feel. They will break the bank for HPY&co, but otherwise it is a balancing act between cost/value. The choices sometimes are more ambiguous that $50K+ for 4 years at Private U vs free ride at State U. There are some colleges that do offer merit aid that can come into the picture as well. My son, for example, applied to Georgia Tech which is an outstanding school that has a very generous merit program that could pay up to full costs if a student wins one of those scholarships. </p>
<p>Also as we looked at schools, there were things that he really liked and fit him very well, and things that he did not like. Since this will be his home and life for the next few years, and really one of the biggest and last things we will be providing for him, we wanted him to be able to go to the college he liked the best. He found a small LAC, that he really liked, and that is where he is going. It has some unique programs and features. He is so very happy there and doing well, that I feel it is well worth the extra cost over many of his other options, some that would have been free with a stipend.</p>
<p>One of my friends who lives in a state with a top state flagship school, swore that her kids would go there. But one of her boys clearly preferred a smaller environment. Sometimes you see when there is a better match and you pay for it if you can, because it is something you want to give your child.</p>
<p>Of course, you have to keep the entire family financial picture in focus. Depleting your assets and putting others in the family on shaky family footing, is not doing your kid a favor.</p>