<p>The danger of saying X,Y,Z schools are worth it, and A,B,C schools are not worth it, is what if your kid only got into A,B,C schools. What’s worse is if another child gets into X,Y,Z schools.</p>
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<p>I think of myself more as an “hombre”. :D</p>
<p>By the way, I am delighted at the turn this discussion has taken. Lots of thoughtful arguments being made here. I have no comment; just soaking it all in.</p>
<p>“I guess what I’m saying, with due respect, is that you seem very involved in this choice process, perhaps even a bit too involved. Trust your son, and let him take the lead. He’ll make a good decision, even if it’s not the one you would have made.”</p>
<p>My money, my choice, particularly if the question is a financial one. His money, his choice.</p>
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<p>Well, hopefully you’ve been having financial talks with your kid and making it clear that A,B, and C are not worth the money, so your kid isn’t even applying to them in the first place but is apply applying to other safeties of perhaps similar quality but of much lower cost. Any school not worth the money should not be on the list.</p>
<p>^^ As long as they take into account potential finAid at some of the privates which could make the actual cost more competetive with or even more attractive than the state school.</p>
<p>Well, my son went through the list of schools that accept the Common App and narrowed it down to the ones he may want to apply to.</p>
<p>Thirty-four schools. Yikes.</p>
<p>I asked him what criteria he used to narrow the list down to thirty-four schools. He said something like, “I guess they just sound good.”</p>
<p>Anyway, it’s a start.</p>
<p>Only 34? Just kidding. Your son probably needs to spend a little time on each college’s website and narrow his choices to about 8 to 10. Of course, should he become a National Merit semifinalist (and later finalist), he will be getting tons of mail from those schools. Do not rule out any of those offers. Some are just outstanding, and many have rolling admission.</p>
<p>I think it’s a bad idea to restrict applications only to schools that require the Common App. Just because a college doesn’t use the Common App doesn’t mean it’s not the jewel you’re hoping to find.</p>
<p>34 schools. Thats good. </p>
<p>Ours then progressed to stewing.
Then he progressed towards a strategy.
Finally, with as many schools on the list, narrows it down with aids: RandMacNally States Map, Airline Schedules, and USNWR College Rankings.</p>
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<p>He’s not doing that. He just happened to be working on the Common App when he made this list.</p>
<p>I admit that I didn’t read the whole thread, but in our state, some students with your son’s credentials are also able to get a Masters in 4 years (maybe 5) mostly paid for with scholarships/grants, as part of the full ride.</p>
<p>Something else to throw into the mix…</p>
<p>A formula I’ve seen more than once here on CC worked well for us and could work for this poster’s S, especially if he is pretty sure of the general area in which he wants to study (physical sciences). </p>
<p>A couple of Financial Safeties. These would include not just Flagship State U., but could also include other Flagship OOS schools that have honors colleges and/or are known for generous merit. There are various threads that discuss this.</p>
<p>A couple of safeties and matches. Schools that have what the student wants, where s/he is reasonably likely to get in. For this to work assumes a motivated student.</p>
<p>A couple of reaches, that is, very competitive schools, but ones that have, again, what the student wants to study and (important) the student has shown engagement, has the scores, etc.</p>
<p>I was somewhat skeptical that our rising junior tour-of-schools summer was actually helpful in narrowing things down, but it actually was. There are many good threads on this, such as “stupidest reasons your child had for not applying to a school.” Go with it. </p>
<p>34 schools on the list??? How many applications are too many applications? A dozen, for some students. Four, for others (safety, match, reach).</p>
<p>I think it’s safe to say that 34 is too many, especially when he hasn’t even begun looking at non-Common App schools. I think it’s also safe to say that he’s at the stage where things are very ill-defined, and will narrow it down to a more manageable number. Although, OP, you probably should encourage him to keep it to less than a dozen or so actual apps; no one can submit 34, or 20, quality applications.</p>
<p>The list will not remain at 34, trust me. I think the right number is somewhere from 6 to 12.</p>
<p>EngProfMom, your suggested method is pretty close to what I’m thinking. I tend to imagine a list like this:</p>
<p>2-3 top schools with 100%-of-need, no-loan financial aid policies
2-3 good schools known for generous merit and/or need-based aid
2-3 other schools of any kind
1 safety (practically guaranteed admission + full ride)</p>
<p>The “other schools of any kind” could be anyplace my son may want to attend, regardless of what kind of financial aid or scholarships they normally offer, since you just never know. And the “full ride” safety is a luxury we will probably have due to National Merit, but even without it the chances may be good, as our state is throwing a lot of money at good students to keep them in-state.</p>
<p>coureur, you’re quickly becoming my favorite CCer:
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<p>There’s not enough cynical, self-deprecating humor in the world, I salute you.</p>
<p>mantori, you’ve gotten a lot of wisdom already, so I’m just going to throw some stuff from our experiences in there for what it’s worth.<br>
You said something like – during college visits S registered no enthusiasm. They do that! The kid’s enthusiasm level is usually in inverse proportion to the parents. You see the ‘prospective students’ on tours slouching around looking bored, while the parents ask questions and generally ‘embarrass’ their kids. We’ve done around 40 college tours at this point (egad, yes, you read that right, but my 3 have all different interests), and I’ve seen this phenomenon over and over. But if you ask him “which tour was it where they said…x” he will remember. They absorb more than they let on.<br>
coureur again:<br>
So well stated, I will just embellish. There’s “prestige” and “prestige”. Example, my D wants to work in Marine Bio, has since age 7. For the most part, she is not interested in the same colleges as her brothers. For her, College of the Atlantic (where?) is the gold standard. COA is a “prestige” school for her interests. (She will also apply to the other strong Bio/Marine Bio programs recommended by helpful CCers, like URI, U of F) A kid wanting to go into Public Policy, needs to know that Georgetown and JHU are tops, GW is also good as are many others (yes, Y and H too). Foreign Affairs Agencies hire Tufts, Georgetown, BYU grads in droves, because of their strong language and Intl. Relations programs.</p>
<p>Here’s where I have found that a “prestige” school for whatever interest is vastly superior:
Access
What that means is, access to programs, professors, research opportunities, grant money (even at undergrad level), rare materials in libraries, alumni who retain loyalty to their colleges, etc. When doors open up for the student in any given field due the education they’ve received, I call that a “prestige” degree.</p>
<p>Both of my college kids have had that point driven home over and over. Example: one S has a terrific summer job at a company run by alums from his school. Interview questions focused on the classes he’d taken, because “if you’ve had xyz class, you can handle this work”. The other one applied for and received grant money to do an internship this summer, even though he was only a freshman last year.</p>
<p>mantori, you are entering the phase I affectionately call “bite your tongue until January”. You need to let S own his own process, add your opinion when asked. There are times (like on college tours) you want to take S by the shoulders and shout “SAY ANYTHING! What are you thinking?” But don’t. Give information he needs, try to be unemotional about it. For instance:
I have said to all my kids – apply to whatever schools you want. However, if, when you receive your acceptances, we can’t afford it, you can’t go. The numbers have to add up.<br>
That’s another nod to “prestige” schools. Surprisingly, they can be affordable options. You might be amazed to find that RPI or Harvey Mudd w/ merit aid (inc. the $10,000 a year HMC gives to 750+ SAT math) can be more affordable than “free” schools, such as Olin and Cooper Union, because the cost of housing/meals can be so expensive.</p>
<p>I admire your courage, mantori, in showing your middle-of-the-night dreams/hopes/fears openly on this list and taking the heat for it. I think it’s bold and honest to ask about schools that are “worth the money” in terms of their prestige wattage.</p>
<p>But here’s what raises my hackles: some parents I know will only pay for certain MAJORS! For instance, if their kid says he/she wants to major in Art, the parents refuse to finance it. I do know parents like this. What would you all say to that?</p>
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<p>Agree with UCDad that the reason to apply to colleges that may not be “worth the money” would be merit aid considerations that could bring the cost of such schools down. But the kid has to know going in that if XYZ College doesn’t come up with a good merit/financial aid package, then XYZ is off the table. The last thing a parent needs is drama in April!</p>
<p>AnudduhMom, thank you for sharing those thoughts, and for your support. I appreciate it very much.</p>
<p>You asked:</p>
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<p>My immediate reaction to this would be, “Either you go to one of the best art schools, or go someplace cheap, but I’m not paying a lot of money for a so-so art program”.</p>
<p>After thinking about it for a few seconds, I would add, “I’ll pay for you to major in art at a so-so school IF you double-major in something that will get you a job, in case the art thing doesn’t work out.” This is pretty much what my dad did with me. I wanted to be a writer or a psychologist and wasn’t good enough to get into a top (or even generally-recognized-as-good) program in either. My dad said that if he was going to help me financially, I had to at least pursue an education certificate at the same time, so that if nothing else I could get a teaching job.</p>
<p>In the end, I ended up not needing his money and going into engineering, but anyway, I think his insistence was reasonable.</p>
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<p>JK Rowling’s parents wanted her to get a nice vocational degree so that she could be able to pay her bills. She went through some hard times, but I’m sure that they are thinking, “Good thing she didn’t listen to us!”</p>
<p>"I was convinced that the only thing I wanted to do, ever, was to write novels. However, my parents, both of whom came from impoverished backgrounds and neither of whom had been to college, took the view that my overactive imagination was an amusing personal quirk that could never pay a mortgage, or secure a pension.</p>
<p>They had hoped that I would take a vocational degree; I wanted to study English Literature."</p>
<p>One more angle on the art major: I may not be willing to pay for the whole thing out of my own pocket, but if my child expressed a willingness to pay for it herself, and took serious steps to do so, then I would jump in and help.</p>
<p>My reasoning is this: You can make a good living as an engineer/nurse/teacher/accountant even if you’re not passionate about it. (As exhibit A, I present myself.) However, you will almost certainly not succeed as an artist unless you are really, really passionate about it. I would take a willingness to finance the quixotic pursuit of a career in art oneself as a sign of real passion, and it would make me feel much better about investing in it myself.</p>