Hook vs. grades tradeoff

<p>I am wondering if any of you have had the same problem with a child making a decision about a unique activity that would make him/her stand out. My D participates in a sport separate from school, and has spent many weekends (and sometimes weekdays) traveling to competitions, even competing internationally as a member of the US team. As a result, her grades, while still good, are not as exceptional as they could be. For example, her Phys Ed. grade, of all grades, went down because she was gone for a week in Europe competing, go figure.</p>

<p>Does she cut back on competing her junior and senior years to ensure her grades stay up to par or improve, while still using her involvement to date as a possible "hook", as they call it? Or would a school use the cutback against her?</p>

<p>Is she going to play this sport in college?</p>

<p>This sport is not an NCAA sport, but she hopes to run XC (a similar sport) in college, more than likely an LAC that is DIII or an Ivy/Patriot League school that is DI</p>

<p>It depends on what sport it is. If it's something where you peak when you're very young (e.g., women's gymnastics), she would pay a very high price for cutting back on competing during her junior and senior years.</p>

<p>On the other hand, can anyone really count on a sport as a "hook"? All it takes is one injury significant enough so that the athlete can no longer compete at the same level, and the hook has vanished.</p>

<p>Unless you know she'll be recruited as an athlete, I'd say she needs to focus more on grades. Especially if top LAC or Ivy.</p>

<p>^^I agree. I'd stick with high grades as a surer path to admissions success. </p>

<p>About the only way excelling at a non-NCAA sport could be a hook would be if your daughter was so good at it that she actually became famous - such as winnning an Olympic gold medal or other highly visible honor. Short of that it would just be another good EC.</p>

<p>Since your D seems to thoroughly enjoy the sport and has good grades, I say let her stay in the sport, and then look for colleges where she is likely to be admitted and still continue playing her sport.</p>

<p>I don't think that people "win" the college acceptance "race" by getting the highest grades possible -- at any cost -- and then getting into the best college that they can gain acceptance to. I think that people "win" by using their h.s. time to become the best human being they are able to be (including being able to pursue their nonacademic interests), and then finding a college that matches their interests and stats.</p>

<p>I'm assuming she wants to continue her sport.
If true, that's what she should do, regardless of future college plans in my opinion.</p>

<p>If she is a recruitable athlete, from what I see where I live, that is worth .4 to 1.0 extra gpa points.</p>

<p>So I wouldn't worry about it.
Very few places even look at phys ed grades. Don't worry about that either.</p>

<p>Northstarmom,
This advice is a gem: </p>

<p>I think that people "win" by using their h.s. time to become the best human being they are able to be (including being able to pursue their nonacademic interests), and then finding a college that matches their interests and stats.</p>

<p>My kids are in performing arts, not sports, but every time they stayed late for rehearsals and compromised an exam from fatigue, I cringed imagining the future gateway of college admissions. On the deepest level imaginable, I wanted them to be themselves and develop their authentic interests. At the same time, I knew that in part, those interests would be furthered if they had a "goodly range of options" to select among on April 1 of their senior year. After cultivating a "hook", sometimes what must be redefined is the list of colleges where apps will be filed so that there's some reasonable hope of success for the student on April l. That compromise seems to bother parents more than students. </p>

<p>I never pulled them out of anything theatrical over fear of lessening their GPA's and guess what, sometimes their GPA's suffered from it. I felt the differences were marginal re: GPA but not having anything to show on an EC resume would be very detrimental, as performing arts is what does distinguish them from among the pack. Not to mention, it's what makes them feel alive, want to get up and GO into the world each day...so even that has academic implications.
I recall having it out with a parent of my eldest b/c she decided to "help" (I say "punish" him) re: his teetering math grade in Grade 10 by forbidding him to practice his cello so much. Yes it would buy him more homework time, but it also ripped into his soul so much I thought it would send him into a depression that would more greatly undercut his math performance.
Thankfully, the family made compromises.
He's a professional cellist today, age 24. I don't know how he stands with his Maths.<br>
I do not understand the world of competitive sports and college recruiting for sports. With its more formal systems, compared to theater, there may be non-parallels here and I want to be respectful of what I don't understand (sports).
I would add on the other side that my eldest had more choices because they kept better grades than my youngest, and I'm worried for him as I hawk the mailboxes these days (he's a senior) but in fact he took Northstarmom's way, with our support, to choose the colleges that MATCHED his GPA as presented (plus one reach) but offerred rich opportunities in theater which has talent-based entrygates in addition to the regular application for each college (portfolios, auditions, extra essays, etc.)<br>
Isn't the problem that you want this sport to complement rather than define your daughter's life, current and future? Unless she's training for Olympics, I mean. Some points off of a GPA might actually cut some schools off her list from the top, and that's a tradeoff to discuss with HER. Teens like to hear these words, "make informed choices" and if you think her current choices eliminate some of her other dreams (I always wanted to go to Princeton, mom, and run like the wind...) then this is the time to evaluate with her whether her balance is appropriate to her multiple dreams for her future.
My two cents from the balcony :)</p>

<p>Your thought process for "appropriate schools" is much like the one we encouraged our D to use, D III or Ivy/Patriot. Her top sport is more traditional (depending on which of her sports she thought she might want to continue with!). She has solid (not fabulous) grades and scores at an extremely competitive public high school.</p>

<p>Personally, we found it was probably the "whole package" that made it work. D is a bit of a big fish in a small pond, too, she's very involved at school in a wide range of areas, but would never be confused as one of the "popular" kids. She does her thing because it's what she likes to do. I will add that with the rare exception, school work and grades are always first in our house (but then I never had a kid who competed on an international level, so I can't speak to that issue-that does sound pretty cool).</p>

<p>It sounds like your D has had some wonderful experiences to date that could tag her as a somewhat unique college applicant. If that is what she loves doing, by all means try to incorporate that in the college process. You will need to be pro-active in contacting coaches at the appropriate time if she plans to go that route and you are hoping for some "help" in that area by crossing over to a "varsity" sport. My D got some recruiting info from schools she wasn't interested in urging her to consider college crew, a sport she has never done (but would probably be pretty good at if she wanted to give it a try-she's truly a jock).</p>

<p>We semi-actively promoted D's athletic talents, hoping it could help tip the college decision in her favor. But the bottom line in school decision had to be based on her love of the school (not for the sport as an injury could be the end of that; not for the coach as coaches come and go (and hers just did!). Numerous college visits and a few discussions with college coaches helped her narrow in on the type of school she felt would be a good fit for her. </p>

<p>Considering the volumes of applicants trying to get into schools these days, trying to find a way to shine is no easy feat. One just has to be careful not to let the other pieces tarnish while polishing that special talent.</p>

<p>IMHO it all depends on what is important to the individual. From my vantage point - grades matter. Every college admissions officer repeats the mantra that gpa is the most important component of the decision process. They claim it to be their best predictor of college success. They don't know (or often don't care) why your grades are lower than their typical admit - is it from play rehearsals or not turning in homework? My very bright S2 has fabulous ECs and so-so grades from the homework issue. He has to lower his college expectations - the more selective schools just aren't interested. He's OK with that. That's the bottom line.</p>

<p>grades first, here. Daughter very active in sports and in dance. But during the AP cram week, her coach was furious when she attended al sessions, at the expense of missing practices. </p>

<p>Good luck to your daughter...she sounds exceptional!</p>

<p>The students in my school are too grades-centric. As a result, my school generally doesn't have an incredibly impressive history of top college acceptances, despite many students having 4.0/2400 combos or nearly-equivalent grades/test scores. It is the student who sacrifices perfect grades for great grades but "wins" a "hook" in return who manages to get into the nation's top universities here.</p>

<p>If your daughter has earned a spot on the US National team then she has distinguished herself as an acheiver and that will be looked upon very favorably by admissions officers. She should get the best grades possible and continue pursuing her sport. Let the chips fall where they may. She is most likely at or near the peak of her athletic potential and she should follow her dream now while her body and spirit are willing. I think there are many schools who would love to have a nationally ranked athlete in their ranks. It speaks to dedication and hard work just like good grades do. Just for safety reasons though, calll a few x country coaches at the schools she is interested in and see what they think! Good luck.</p>

<p>one of the problems that I see from reading all the posts is that we all have different ideas of acceptable GPA's and what is a "bad grade". I would think that grades that generally fall in the A and B range (with a possible C along the way) would still make her competitive for top college admissions because of her nationally ranked participation in a sport. I think if you are talking about grades that are generally in the B and C range, with the occasional A or D, a hook like you are talking about is not going to help.</p>

<p>What does your daughter want to do?</p>

<p>Assuming she wants to continue the sport, I am with northstarmom--let her.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>That response is helpful in our situation too, as well as for the OP, so thanks for posting.</p>

<p>I lean heavily, very heavily, to the sport side. Kids who get excellent grades are a dime a dozen. Kids who compete at the international level in a sport are very rare. Such achievement takes exceptional dedication, talent, and courage. As an employer, a question that I often ask of people that I interview is "What are you world-class at?" Very few have a substantive answer for such a query. Your daughter does and she understands what it took to achieve at that level. Those lessons can be applied at every stage of life. Thus, I would strongly encourage her to go for it now on the athletic stage (you can't decide to do this when you're 35 or 45 or 55). The benefits extend well past the college application era of her life.</p>

<p>hawkette, interesting insight. I also had a boss who liked hiring accomplished athletes - he felt their discipline and goal-oriented personalities translated well in the business setting.</p>

<p>OTOH, I've picked up that some coaches are so self-centered that they hurt kids chances for the sake of their team (and ego) winning.</p>

<p>I admire strong athletes and all it takes to get there. OTOH, I'm growing weary of three things in our culture:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Copious funding to sports at every level of education, at the expense of every other EC</p></li>
<li><p>Coaches who yank my students out of afterschool Hebrew class or they'll lose their spots on teams. They always have to leave 15 minutes early to be on the whatever team, and parents forever compromise the religious training for the sports training. JUST ONCE, I;d like to have somebody walk out on a coach because they "have" to be at religious school, iinstead of telling their rabbi they can't make a Bar Mitzvah lesson for a swim meet. Happens all the time and it's a one-way street all the time. Parents cow to tyrannical coaches but if the clergy tries to assert themselves with standards, forgetaboutit.</p></li>
<li><p>Failure to realize that many of the same skills of character, applauded by hiring employers (teamwork, goal-oriented, discipline) as cited by katliamom's boss, ALSO derive in equal measure from nonsports endeavors such as orchestra, theater, dance.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>My rant, and why we stopped having our kids do organized sports long ago, when coaches required them to "choose" between the sport and....everything else.</p>

<p>End of rant. Now shoot me. I'm used to it.</p>