Can someone explain to me the rationale behind why colleges pay so much attention to race/ethnicity/income. I’m expecting the typical “the challenges they faced and obstacles they had to overcome” response, but that is far from accurate. Just because someone is a URM doesn’t mean they have had greater troubles growing up than some white students have had. It seems irrational to me.
Many colleges do not pay attention to such things, and many of those that do give it lower importance than commonly assumed on these forums.
Personally I believe that socio economic condition should be (and partially is) the biggest hook anyone should have. If you grew up going to private schools and your parents income(s) is top 1% then it doesn’t matter what race you are, you had all the advantages over someone who had to go to a low income public school and maybe had to work to contribute to family income.
Perhaps they believe in research like this: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-diversity-makes-us-smarter/
the biggest hook is athlete, as you potentially could bring in money to the school and you have someone on the inside (coach) working to get them in. And it’s not automatically URM, but family context as well, so a white person from a poor family in rural Ohio or Kentucky (as described in the excellent book “Hillbilly Elegy”) would have a similar hook. While income can’t be used, family situation - where they live, what kind of high school, the community is definitely looked at. Take Stanford, they know the bay area in and out, know that an Asian student with both parents working from a wealthy neighborhood is going to have more opportunities and do real well on standardized tests, there was a report saying that Asians need to outperform non-Asians by 140 points on the SATs (1600 scale) to be considered similar applicants. Stanford like other top schools want a diverse college with differing points expressed, and more reflect the general population. They want to provide economic mobility as I posted in another thread, as it’s been shown URMs need the brand and prestige of the top schools more than non-URMs. Anyway, a lot of issues, tough to summarize in a paragraph.
Also the students getting in are highly qualified, it’s not like someone with an ACT of 12 is getting in because of the hook.
I understand the logic behind why colleges do this, but it just seems unfair to place lower standards to those who came from “disadvantaged” backgrounds. I come from a lower-middle class neighborhood with slightly below average opportunities as I come from a fairly small town. Growing up and in high school I never had any tutors, any act/sat classes or anything like that, but still excelled (#1 in class, 34 ACT), but someone who came from a “disadvantaged” background with the same stats would presumably be held to slightly lower standards, even if the challenges faced were similar. @theloniusmonk
How do you presume to know just how colleges use such information (race/ethnicity/income)? Why do you think your situation, the challenges you faced, won’t be recognized and evaluated fairly? Colleges do take into account high school context/profile, so if you didn’t have the opportunity for AP courses, or extensive ECs, or other things, they’ll be aware of this. They likely even consider other aspects of the city/community you grew up in.
If you like, feel free to write about the challenges you faced and how you handled them, got past them, or at least mention them, in your essay/written supplements. Just be careful not to do it in a way that’s seen as privileged or whiny.
Your putting “disadvantaged” in quotes bothers me – it shows a lack of appreciation for the difficulties that can lead to. I’m sure it’s true that colleges sometimes do use such factors in a superficial/inaccurate/unfair way, and maybe there are relatively simple ways to improve how they do that; but all things considered (the space they have to collect such info, the time they have to assess it, the way their results are evaluated, etc.), I don’t think it’s unreasonable or unfair that they do use it.
Basically if you come across in your essays the same way you are coming across in this thread you’ll greatly reduce your chances at acceptance at many schools. Perhaps you should seek out ways to better empathize with people that have faced these challenges by reading or getting involved in different ways.
This:
You are a high school Jr. and I would suggest that your time on CC would be better spent trying to figure out how to assemble the best application you possibly can rather than worrying about perceived injustices that you haven’t even experienced.
And this:
Empathy: spend a few moments asking yourself if you would gladly transform and live the remainder of your life as an African-American so that you can have a “hook” next year. Really think about it. Yeh, I didn’t think so.
Race debates belong in the race thread. A lot about the college admissions process makes little sense, but you can’t change the system. Instead, focus on developing the strongest app you can. Then, when it comes time to apply, consider some international schools. They tend to be far less holistic overseas. Maybe take a DNA test to see if you’re possibly Hispanic.
Yes personal opinions aside there is nothing you can do about it, so try your best, and remember URM means underrepresented. You are in a group that is over represented.
@csdad2 the reason for “disadvantaged” in quotations is for those who come from a background that may be viewed as disadvantaged but do not actually face the challenges that most face. So they appear to be disadvantaged but actually aren’t, hence the quotations.
It was pretty clear what you meant. The point is, in most cases, you really can’t know that that is the case. And even if it is true in a few cases, that doesn’t mean it happens often. Your implication is that it happens quite commonly – and that is far from true.
As @planner03 said:
Even more, think about what your life would’ve been like if you had lived these first 17-18 years as an African-American.
What? How do you know what challenges people face? Worry about yourself and your accomplishments. It’s a waste of time complaining about how unfair something is. Is it unfair that some colleges place a lot of weight on legacies? That colleges may “lower” their standards for athletes? That colleges want to balance their classes with students who can pay full price? You don’t know why any student gets accepted. Colleges aren’t trying to admit kids who won’t survive in the academic setting. They still want the best kids. So stop and take a minute to work as hard as you can.
I think that it’s important to think not only outside yourself, but beyond your generation as well. Each generation should have the opportunity to do better than the one before, but while historically that’s been a possibility for ORMs it hasn’t been as easy for URMs. I think that’s why colleges may give the apps of URMs a closer look.
I think colleges take individual student circumstances into account, so if you come from a disadvantaged background they’ll consider that. I don’t believe you’ll be competing with URMs though. I think URMs compete with other URMs. But not all URMs are low income, so it makes sense that not all URMs who are accepted would be either.
However, if colleges ignored the economic backgrounds for URMs, it would only be fair for them to ignore the economic backgrounds of ORMs. Do you really want them to ignore the fact that some high schools offer much more than your “slightly below average opportunities”? I don’t believe you’ll be competing against URMs at all. I think you’ll be in different buckets, but even if you were it’s more likely that you’d be compared to students with similar backgrounds and opportunities. In short, if you don’t get into an Ivy or other highly ranked university it won’t be because some less qualified URM got in instead.
I think they do ignore it, at least if you don’t fall into a hooked bucket. Whether it works is debatable, but a lot of parents want their kids to go to an elite BS because they believe it will improve their college admissions. We’ve had former ivy adcoms on here say the student who got a 4.0 at some random podunk high school is going to be treated as less impressive than someone who got a 3.9 at a top notch public hs known for academic rigor. If anything, going to a less impressive high school, hurts not helps, the unhooked applicant.
I think that there are a lot of factors that go into the process and the use of ‘hooks’ in college admissions. As a black woman who works directly with kids in some of the most broken inner city schools, there are circumstances as an URM and those in impoverished communities that need to be recognized.
First off, as an URM, there are many emotional traumas that you may face no matter what your socioeconomic standing is, especially if you are socially aware. You could be like me, who came to school everyday being called brown bread, who was mocked in front of my 4th grade class during show-and-tell when someone asked why I didn’t bring Oreos in represent myself, why the administration let a student get away with calling someone an N*** on Twitter and why Martin Luther King Jr. Day was shafted into a 30 minute lecture as to why ‘all lives matter.’ If a person of color (PoC) is suffering from these sort of microaggressions and being discriminated against on a daily basis, it can affect their confidence and performance in school if they don’t feel like they have an open environment to learn and prosper. Most PoC’s don’t want to be surrounded by people who don’t even make an effort to be empathic towards their race/religions/ethnic background’s suffering, and don’t succeed as well as they should if they don’t have a mentor or support system to help them.
If terms of socioeconomic background, you should first acknowledge that the achievement gap is real because of the failing public school system. There are schools in the inner city where being in the top 10% is having a 3.5. There are also an overall lack of resources and less safety nets for students. If you were at a top notch prep school and not getting the grades you wanted, a teacher, counselor, or even your friends could help you find you find free and payed tutoring and teacher support. If your grades slipped in a school with lack of funding, your grades would probably stay that way. There wouldn’t be that much pressure as to what college you’re going to but rather IF you’re going to college. The way this question is phrased changes dramatically the pressure and motivation of students. After all, we are a product of our environments.
Just a little something to consider.
The intent of my thread/question seems to have been misinterpreted due to my wording. What I really was pondering was how colleges assess each persons individual scenario. I do realize @DisneyAlways the discrimination and prejudices that URM’s do, and will continue to, face. But it would be ignorant to think that just because someone is a URM means that their life is automatically worse than a white student’s. Additionally, Asian-Americans are often held to a higher standard, yet they face much social discrimination as well. I was just trying to get some insight into how colleges assess each scenario.
The answer is that it differs by college. Many simply look at grades and scores and take the top and that’s that.
Some - and I suspect you are asking about these - that have very low acceptance rates - look “holistically” and that means they consider lots of factors and those may include race, income level, type/quality of high school along with course rigor and gpa and test scores and talents and awards, etc.
Caltech is the closest there is to an elite US college which admits solely on the basis of academic stats and rigor. Compare their common data set to that of other elite schools and maybe that will answer your question.