URM - Does it REALLY matter?

<p>Hi. Whenever I see people giving data sets on a school (Penn for example). People say "well I know some people who got in (excluding the URM kids) with below 3.7!" Do schools (Penn) really hold URM minority students to a lower standard? </p>

<p>I mean I applied Wharton ED with a 34 ACT, 3.96UW, several leadership positions etc. and I'm also Hispanic. I never really thought I had a chance of getting in, but it seems like the URM will help a lot more than I thought - or am I being too hopeful?</p>

<p>sounds great. hope to see you at campus next year:)</p>

<p>fellow pen15 hopeful</p>

<p>No, URM status is huge.</p>

<p>Rtgrove123 get the heck off cc from ur past comments i can tell ur a bigot always spouting ur hatred and ignorance its been more than 3 years and ur still around im not really sorry the “minorities” stole ur chance at a quality education ur stats sucked anyways</p>

<p>^ W T F?</p>

<p>Rtgrove123 is currently enrolled in Penn’s LSM program. I fail to see the ‘chance at a quality education’ that he/she missed.</p>

<p>I think many people underestimate the significance of being an under-represented minority. People will try to refute it and come up with various explanations but anecdote after anecdote, statistics after statistics, being a URM seems to help significantly.</p>

<p>Colleges say that they want to build a “class.” Having URMs is one of the best ways of creating that perfect “class.” Diversity, new perspectives, etc. can be shown and given through URMs.</p>

<p>However, the URM also has to show the university that he/she can cope with the cirriculum, and that’s when the stats come in.</p>

<p>If you have the average statistics of the admitted class (GPA, SAT) and average ECs, there’s a high chance of acceptance.</p>

<p>All I have to say is that the world is unfair. I have a dream, that one day, little white children, and little black children, and even little asian children, can have the same chance at college admissions, oh I have a dream. No offense to Martin Luther King Jr.</p>

<p>I’m a freshman at Penn. If being a URM huge then something is wrong because the campus doesn’t have a lot of black and hispanic students. I don’t have official numbers but when I look around campus I see about 50 percent white people and 40 percent Asians, both of which are ORMs. The remaining 10 percent are Indian, mixed race, and a small scattering of black/hispanic students. </p>

<p>If anything the school needs to give more advantage to URMs.</p>

<p>

Burn.
D:<</p>

<p>@takedown I don’t think the numbers are that drastic but your right about the URM percentage at Penn being small. It baffles me how people believe that all the minorities are given an acceptance stamp just for being minority. If that were so then Penn would be much more diverse. Besides, just because a person has perfect test scores DOES NOT guarantee admission. They also take into account the persons academics, essays, recommendations, and interviews. Candidates with 2200s and 2300s have the possibility of rejection as well if they don’t have other qualities that stand out. Just look at the previous decisions threads. Admissions is not a numbers game.</p>

<p>

[Penn</a> Admissions: Incoming Class Profile](<a href=“http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/]Penn”>http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/)</p>

<p>Right. 9% Black and 8.7% Hispanic. Only 24.5% Asian too, and White people definitely aren’t “ORMs” seeing as they aren’t even minorities. So by your logic, URMs should get even more of a handicap because their are less of them than Asian and White students? That may be the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard for AA.</p>

<p>

No one believes that. People believe that certain minorities are given handicaps when it comes to admissions, which is undoubtedly true.</p>

<p>^^My point was simple: Penn doesn’t feel very diverse. People who cry about affirmative action are lame. If affirmative action was such an advantage for URMs, it seems that we’d have a lot more URMs than we have. Test scores, grades and ECs are more reflective of a student’s wealth and family structure than their intelligence. You all know that’s true. Penn is located in a community of color, but the campus is anything but. In my opinion, the school needs to do more to attract students of color. In fact, I would love to see Penn one day be considered the most racially diverse Ivy by having more than 50% students of color. As one of the few Ivies located in a mostly disadvantaged community, I think that would be appropriate and wonderful.</p>

<p>People always talk about this diversity and I think that Penn does a great job of accurately representing the world we live in today, a far better job than many other universitites. America is 12.4% African American, and that isn’t too far from Penn’s percentage, and having less than 60% white is better than the overall percentage for the US.</p>

<p>@takedown

When america is maybe 15% (tops!) African american!!?!?!! That doesn’t sound ludicrous at all to you!?!!?!?!?!</p>

<p>@Euroazn: diversity doesn’t just include African-Americans. It includes Hispanics, Asians, Native-Americans, and international students as well. Penn also has stated they value diversity in broad terms. They now have a space on the application where applicants can list themselves as LGBT. Penn WANTS diversity.</p>

<p>That doesn’t mean they should be going out of their way to take less qualified “diverse applicant” then a white counterpart…</p>

<p>Why do people automatically assume minority candidates are “less qualified” or “undeserving”? So minority students can’t work hard for their grades? Minorities can’t work just as hard if not harder than white students? People take a few examples and say, “Look! This black kid made a 2100 on the SAT and was accepted and the white kid with 2300 wasn’t!! He was clearly accepted just for being black!!” It’s funny how people believe that one person of color’s situation is ALL people of color’s situation. There are plenty of qualified minority applicants who are excepted at top ranked university’s and EXCEL! For example, last year the valedictorian at John Hopkin’s was African-American. </p>

<p>There is also a double standard. If a white student made the same scores as an “unqualified” minority candidate, say an middle range test score of 2000, and was accepted no one would blink twice. They’d say, “well he probably had a good transcript, extracurriculars, or essay” and move on. But if a minority candidate had the same score then his whole application aside, he MUST be an affirmative action admit. Forget about his grades or his school involvement and all of that. </p>

<p>Plus, logically what benefit would it be to the school to accept students that aren’t qualified. It doesn’t look good to them to have high percentages of students dropping out, failing, or in remedial classes. Top-ranking schools want to accept students they KNOW will succeed. I think the whole notion that minority students are wholly unqualified is ridiculous and just a way for people to perpetuate their beliefs and have someone to blame when they don’t get into their top school. </p>

<p>I get so tired of people assuming that people like me don’t deserve or have every right to be at ivy league schools and top ranked schools. I’ve worked hard to have a high GPA. I’ve taken and excelled in AP classes. I’ve spent hours studying and prepping for the SATs. I’ve been actively involved in my school and community. I’ve worked hard JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! Penn might look at my minority status but it won’t be the defining factor in their decision. If they accept me then I will have earned my spot into the Class of 2015. If they reject me then I am just like the other qualified students who for whatever reasons, just wasn’t accepted. People need to stop the assumption that minorities can’t be smart or successful enough for the Ivy League. It’s the 21st century got dammit!</p>

<p>URMs obviously have a significant advantage when it comes to college admissions. A well qualified URM can get in where a better qualified non-URM will get rejected. I know this Asian kid with a mediocre application who got into Berkeley (OOS) solely because he lied and said that he was Native American. There can definitely be URMs who are more qualified than non-URMs at the same school but this doesn’t mean URM status doesn’t matter. People can keep telling themselves lies, but URMs definitely have it “easy”.</p>

<p>^^ That assumption which you hate so much is one of the biggest problems of AA. All African American, Hispanic American and Native American students are automatically assumed to be inferior due to the handicaps they are given, when in reality, many of them are exceedingly brilliant. There’s a simple solution, eliminate race-based AA and have any type of AA program be based entirely on socioeconomic condition. People will stop crying about “unqualified blacks, hispanics and native americans” instantly.</p>