Horace Mann vs. Riverdale college placement

Just to add to this post, Riverdale does not provide Scior or Naviance and there is almost no information given to students and families about past matriculations. No scatterplots. No data to reference.

There are not a ton of athletic recruits but there are definitely a large number of tagged kids and underrepresented minorities (who worked hard and earned it) going to the tippy top schools.

When deciding where to send your child to school, focus more on the education received, the curriculum and offerings, the social atmosphere (VERY different at HM vs. Riv) rather than a matriculation list since there is so much behind many of those acceptances that you will never know by looking in from the outside.

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Just one comment: my kids interests, passions, and overall needs changed profoundly between 6th and 8th grades, and just as much as she went through high school. It seemed that we had three or four different children during the period between the ages of 11 and 17.

And I mean profound differences. I can see that she is the same person in all of her photos, but most people who see her photos from the 6th, 8th, 10th, and 12th grades would need to look really closely to realize that this was the same person. Not only because of normal changes through puberty, but because her clothes, hairstyle, and demeaner are so radically different.

No suggestions, nor is this a criticism of anybodyā€™s decisions a or plans, BTW. Itā€™s just a caveat for anybody who is making long-term plans for a kid in 6th grade. They should have either alternate plans to enact later, or be prepared to be very flexible. Life throws curveballs, and it seems that an inordinate number of these have to do with the teen years of our kids.

Good luck and all the best to those whose kidā€™s teen years are yet ahead of them.

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All true. It is also impossible to know how a child might fit - or not - in to a school or class community. With such small class sizes, finding your niche isnā€™t always that easy especially for schools that are dominated by cliques.

You are paying for the stellar high school education that will enable your student to hit the ground running at any college s/he chooses to attendā€”thatā€™s the ā€œvalue-add.ā€ These schools are selling high school educations, not college results. As ski posted upthread:

Donā€™t try to buy what the schools are not selling.

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I remember a few '21 graduates coming back to campus earlier this school year. One of them, who attends Harvard, commented that their freshman year there has so far been easier than senior year at Lawrenceville was.

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The same can be said for many rigorous secondary schools. Itā€™s amazing how much easier college seems when you donā€™t have mandatory sports.

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I am not sure it is the mandatory sports. In college you have a lot more choice of what you study (unless you pick a school with core curriculum I suppose) and most kids tend to pick subjects they like and excel in. And then round out with fluff classes for their distro requirements. But there are certainly kids who choose to double major (or more) and take 5 classes every term and be challenged academically. And then there are kids who focus on the social stuff, or work a ton of hours while going to school either at job to make money or internship to get experience in their chosen field.
And kids already focused on med or law school and therefore grinding for the top GPA once again, soā€¦college really is what you make it to be. Lots of stressed out kids in college, even the ones who went to top high schools, whether about academics, social stuff or the next steps.

I also think that good writing skills help tremendously. Being able to bang out a paper in half the time it takes other people is huge for quality of life.

Broad generalization based on kids and schools I know: Quality secondary schools do a much better job with teaching writing.

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Agreed, though I might argue HM and Riverdale peddle matriculation behind the curtain and sell the education up front. The quotes from the HM college counselor were a bit aggressive in blaming students for the (relative) lackluster matriculation stats over the past year. As a parent, that would very much upset me. ā€œOur kids didnā€™t get in ED when they overshot.ā€ While true, was that not true in all prior years, or just this year because their students were rejected at a higher rate? And way to throw them under the bus in print!

Iā€™ve always found it humorous that most parents in our school seek matriculation stats first and sleep on the high value education the students are receiving relative to the average HS kid. Agree with other posters that writing skills, ability to handle rigorous work under pressure, etc. will all serve them extremely well in college. Which leads us back to the original questionā€¦ Theyā€™re both tremendous schools, with a litany of pros and cons on each side. The MOST important thing for a 6th grader is happiness. Thereā€™s not a close second. Where do they want to go? Yes, Iā€™d let them choose in this instance. We had two options with our middle child as well, around that age. We let her choose. Sheā€™s extremely happy as a person. Sheā€™ll end up in whatever college she ends up. Itā€™ll be a good one, but sheā€™ll end up there smiling regardless (and she was rejected Duke ED, lol).

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If you think about it, this is a great opportunity for a kid to start making big decisions on their own. There is no wrong choice, and if they own it they are more likely to be happy with it.

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Didnā€™t the Krueger study demonstrate that comparably-talented students at elite and non-elite had comparable lifetime earnings?

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Ours actually chose the slightly less rigorous school. She blossomed. If there had been a tremendous academic difference we wouldā€™ve ovviously directed her, but they were both great options.

She commented ā€œmaybe Iā€™m in Dukeā€ if she went to the other school, but Iā€™m not sure sheā€™d have the confidence and social skills that sheā€™s attained. In the long runā€¦give me that!

Fit. Whichever school fits your child, send them there.

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@westchesterdad22 , guessing the outcome at Duke would have been the same. With a less well-adjusted kid.

Ainā€™t that the truth! To attach to this thread, our school has generally sent 1-3 kids to Duke each year, not particularly attached to legacy. Her GC and department head basically told her that while she fit the profile of prior admits in the ED round, they expected this year to be the blood bath it was and to ED to a more ā€œreasonableā€ choice like Vandy or WashU where her stats would be considered as opposed to auto-rejected due to other factors (lol a little that those seemed more approachable, though itā€™s true).

But she didnā€™t care. Said sheā€™d be happy at any number of schools and that she might as well apply to her dream even if itā€™s a wild shot. We attribute the way sheā€™s handled this process (which is MUCH better than we have as parents) to her maturity and self-confidence- much of which was acquired by picking the right school for her.

Many of us canā€™t say it any more clearly. The greatest act of love for your child is not picking the school that will grant them the best opportunity for elite college acceptance. Itā€™s picking the school where they will grow and find happiness. College is so far down the road.

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Sorry that Duke didnā€™t work out for your daughter and hopefully good things on the horizon!!

Similar experience at my kids former HS. Prior years they would routinely send 2-4 kids a year to Duke and receive 3-5 acceptances. Mostly drawn from ED round. This year apparently 1 accepted recruited athlete, 2 deferrals and 6+ rejections. Parents are upset and seemingly GCs are surprised.

Not sure I understand this commentā€¦ auto rejected?

Letā€™s get back to the OPā€™s direct question please.

What was just posted is directly related to OPā€™s original questions. The way admissions have worked at selective NYC private schools including HM and Riverdale for years has been that there was some guidance for ED/REA schools so kids had somewhat realistic reaches, 40% (close to half in a good year) kids got in early and were done, and guidance counselors were focused on the rest. Students were asked to limit the list to no more than 10 private colleges, and they managed to help get most everyone to one of them (or one of the state flagships of their choice). But in the last few years even the ā€˜realistic reachesā€™ became more of a crapshoot, and families were quite upset when they listened to guidance to go with more realistic choice for early and still did not get in. The unofficial 10 school rule blew up and people are applying to 20+ private schools, with most of the class having very similar lists. All this while colleges working on diversifying their student bodies and giving things like legacy less and less weight. So it is a perfect storm, and schools are trying to make adjustments, but right now HM guidance office is dealing with a bit of loss of credibility and many families are trying to do their own thing, and applying to more schools than recommended. This is a bit less of a case at Riverdale but it is also happening there as well as other NYC privates. People are getting a lot more disclaimers up front that landscape is changing rapidly as an attempt to lower expectations and stop people from what now often results in overreaching but that is a pretty futile effort in NYC private school world.

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Yep. Extremely accurate and well said. OP clearly indicated that matriculation statistics were amongst the largest (if not THE largest) factor in deciding. A long form discussion as to what is currently occurring, and what might occur in the near future, is not only relevant to their decision but likely overwhelmingly so.

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15 posts were split to a new thread: Prep schools and matriculation to elite universities