Totally get this goal. There’s only so much we hand-wringing parents can do these days, though. There are so many unknowable unknowns in our kids’ futures, having nothing to do with where they go to school. You have two great options. I don’t think you can know enough about your kid’s future to make a decision between them based on a goal of minimizing future risk. The two schools are more similar than different in that regard. The best you can do is determine your kid’s current risks - what they need to thrive in the next four years and go with the school that serves those needs.
Completely understand this. However, and this can’t be stressed enough, you’re approaching this from a pre-2020 perspective. Will things revert to how they were previously? Maybe, but unlikely.
Also, and this is HUGE- you are probably in one of the only careers where it matters anymore. If your child decides on a career in anything other than finance, he or she will be able to achieve that with hard work, networking, and great grades at any respectable university. Outcomes for professional fields up and down the top 75 universities have changed significantly over the past 10 years. Outside of the niche financial services industry…it doesn’t matter. If they want to be a doctor? Absolutely irrelevant. Lawyer? Pretty much irrelevant. Go anywhere decent, finish at or near the top of your class, and your chances are literally no different than a top 15 school.
Maybe I’m being a bit micro-aggressive here, but I just dislike that approach. YES, those are amazing schools and there’s reason to be excited about the acceptances and the opportunities. But it should solely be for the development and education of the child, not the potential outcome for college. For all of the reasons above as well as the fact that the landscape is not going to resemble today’s in six years.
There is no risk in going to a school outside the top 20. Deciding that now for a pre-teen is likely more risky than allowing them to develop their own interests.
I will end by saying we were exactly like you ten years ago. Then we went through the process, and are going through it again. Experience and perspective has changed, along with the college application system.
I think there are better threads for swapping war stories about the challenges that occured getting a job on Wall Street when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
The OP is asking for thoughts on a school for a 10 year old boy. Responses should focus on that. Preplanning one’s life may have been de rigueur in Edwardian England, but may not be applicable in 2030.
Agreed, though my response was related to OP’s main reason for posting- asking whether matriculation results are changing with respect to these and other similarly “elite” private schools, and the goal of “de-risking” their potential outcomes by enrolling. I feel that the points made were an extrapolation from the question. OP clearly is concerned with the outcome post-college (as indicated in their most recent posts), with a focus on achieving the highest rated acceptance post-HS. I merely pointed out that the world today is a bit different than it was yesterday, which is a bit different than it was in our day, and that the focus should remain on current fit and needs of a pre-teen.
Lots of interesting thoughts here, but this is about a 10 or 11 year old’s choice for 6th grade. He is many years away from thinking about college, grad school, or his future career. Please stay on topic.
Thank you Westchester Dad, I follow you on a few threads and you consistently give the best advice. Completely agree with your take (or rather the guidance counselor’s observation) re: Penn legacies this year. I suspected just that.
I really do not think you should use college admissions as your main criteria. HM had better college placement till very recently, yes 2021 was bad there but I do wonder how much of it was result of them being in school in person all year while Riverdale had in person classes once a week in HS and grading was very relaxed during that time. I understand there is quite a bit of a push at HM to do this as well, and I am not sure it ends up being a good thing long term. In any event, the 2021 college admissions are hardly relevant for incoming 6th graders, and I believe HM is all over reversing the ship.
That said, I think in many ways Riverdale would be preferred, less of a pressure cooker while still providing great opportunities for the kids. My own kids definitely liked it better. That said, HM has way more kids entering in 6th grade (it is their largest entry point for the school) so socially it may be easier to make friends, and it is more diverse. Riverdale is more homogeneous, and the bar/bat mitzvah scene was pretty insane pre-covid with a lot of social competition. Not sure if we are heading back there or not.
I think it would be ideal to see which one your child prefers, but if there are no in person revisit days it will be hard. I know the kids as well as parents are tired of zoom events. If there are no official revisits at least try to go to basketball game to get a little feel for the school.
Also I assume you read this but putting it out here just in case.
To my knowledge Riverdale does not provide this level of college information, and what they do provide is done so in a way that allows them to hide severe undermatches.
I do not have a stake in either school, but when I see roughly half of the seniors going Ivy+ and kids getting into Yale as a backup plan being described as a “disaster,” I think it might be time for a reality check.
Matriculation stats can be extremely misleading due to the inability to parse legacy status.
If the school’s elite college matriculations are largely composed of legacy admits, that isn’t going to help your child if you’re not an elite college alum. Though it might speak to the school’s ability to curate the apps of legacies to the extent needed for a successful admit.
To be fair, legacy is very likely going to mean a lot less when OP’s child is graduating HS. Elite schools this year are actively deferring or rejecting high stat legacy kids, and our private school GC says she has heard very similar from sister schools in the tri-state area.
That said, I DO agree with what others have said about the preparatory nature of both Riverdale and HM. These students typically walk into college without the smack of difficulty that so many other students face after a fairly relaxed HS curriculum (or competition). THAT is worth a lot. Both HM and Riverdale have their own “vibe” and I would suggest really investigating what might best fit an entering child. Some kids need a guiding hand, some kids need a constant boot to the rear, some kids need a pat on the back and a “go get 'em”. Some kids need all of them at different times.
Also remember that not every class at every school has the same strengths. We had one year when 4 kids got into MIT and another when 4 got into Yale but years bracketing them with no success at either school. One “off” year means little.
That is precisely what I am trying to get to the bottom of. Of the stats presented, how to approximate what is legacy/curated vs students’ independent achievement/impact of school.
It is really really hard to do this unless you know people at the schools. I am sure that parents of current high schoolers at each school know exactly who went where, who they know and what their hooks and spikes are. You can get their class lists for the last few years and start stalking kids instagrams but that seems a bit extreme. If I had to guess from knowing who goes to each school I would guess that HM has less legacy and athlete boost but that may be my bias based on who I know who goes to each school.
Current HM parent whose kids entered in 6th grade, with one graduating senior and one college sophomore. We faced a similar decision years ago and opted for HM. Now on the other side, I can tell you that neither kid is at or bound for an ivy ( and did not apply) but both did well admissions wise, (Sophomore attends a public ivy, senior was admitted ED to a top LAC. Having gone through the process twice now, the overwhelming majority of Ivy admissions results have more to do with the wealth of the families coupled with legacy status than credentials of the kids. This is true for HM, Dalton, Riverdale etc. There are always exceptions but that is what I have seen with both my kids’ experiences. We chose HM for the exceptional education and it has lived up to the hype. My Sophomore has a 3.9 in college and has found college to be no harder than HS. Neither loved HM, though both have made good friends and appreciated the education they received.
You’re welcome. My advice is have your child do a revisit at each. Then talk it through as a family. There will be great families and awful families at each school. Same goes for teachers and administrators. The value of the education for us has proved itself beyond admissions. I see how mature my sophomore is, navigating a big school, confidently stepping up to leadership in clubs, advocating for her peers with college advisors through calm appeals to logic. Some of who my sophomore is is from birth, but HM stresses early on that part of succeeding academically is engaging with faculty. And I see the growth in my senior in this area as well. Good luck in your decision.
