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Sakky -- Some of your posts are insightful, but I just can't stomach the volume. You have incredible energy for sure; your motivation is something I can't cipher. If you're a student, I sure hope your grades aren't suffering because of your apparent hunger for on-line asperity.
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<p>I don't understand this attitude at all. Like I said countless times, if you don't like my posts, then don't read them. Nobody has a gun to your head. But let the people who want to read them be allowed to read them. </p>
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If you are refering to the fact that most people who prefer math/physics in high school don't major in Math or Physics in college but rather pick something else I really have to laugh. For starters I would like to point out that studying engineering is virtually continuation of your typical high school physics class. And it is also of note that in college you can major in probably a hundred or so different subjects, where in high school you are really only exposed to a handful (typically 5-8 subjects). In college you are offered the opportunity to explore your academic interests, in high school you really are limited. You can't take engineering classes in high school like you can in college, I would bet that if you could a lot more students would take them because they prefer that to math/physics. If this is what you are claiming, you are basing your argument off of an assumption that you cannot support. Of course students who prefer math/physics in high school are going to major in other subjects, there are hundreds more to pick, all of which you can study at a much greater depth than you can in high school and are offered the opportunity to take obscure classes in nearly every subject. You don't get that in high school, so I really don't see how you can compare the two
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<p>I think you are missing my point. I am saying that people tend to choose engineering over studying math/physics. After all, I would surmise that there are more people majoring in engineering than in math/physics. Why is that? I have to believe that it's because they realize that engineering is more marketable.</p>
<p>It gets down to what I have said before. Let's face it. For most people, college is really about marketability . They are just going to college just to get a job. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not about doing something that they really love, and never has been. The truth is, most people don't love school. They would actually prefer to not go to school at all. It's really about doing something that will get them a job. </p>
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I think it has to do with the fact that engineering is much more tangible to the common student. For the most part engineering is not proofed based, but rather hands on learning where you get work with jet engines, circuits, or whatever your field's devices are. To most students engineering makes a lot more sense than pure physics/math, that is why I think they like it. Again, I really do not think that your typical student thinks about the marketability of a major, particularly when you are differentiating between physics/math and engineering.
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<p>Oh come on. Seriously, do you really believe that? Surely you are aware that a lot of people go to medical school or law school because, again, they see it as a way to get a career. Let's face it. If doctors or lawyers didn't get paid well, a lot fewer people would go to med/law school. The same could be said for all of the other professional degrees. After all, who really likes accounting, honestly? A few people actually like it, but most people find it boring. But they study it anyway because it will get them a job.</p>
<p>Again, I would point to the example of the liberal arts students that I know who are now getting certified in computer skills. They freely admit that they don't really like computers. But it will get them a job that is better than what they can get now, and that's why they do it.</p>
<p>If you can't see that the more a particular job pays, the most people will become interested in that job, then I don't know what to tell you. To give you an extreme example, that's why some women become strippers. I am fairly certain that very few women enjoy taking off their clothes in front of strange men. {Maybe some freaks do, but certainly not normal women]. They are doing this job because it pays extremely well. On a less extreme example, that's why garbagemen and janitors do what they do. Nobody actually enjoys cleaning bathrooms and dealing with people's trash. They are doing it because it pays the bills. Is this such a hard point to see? </p>
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I really cannot fathom how you could possibly encourage someone who hates a subject to go study it and fail (I realize a 2.0 isn't failing per se, but you aren't going to be able to do much with a 2.0 even in engineering). I really do not get how you can think that way.
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<p>I personally don't fathom how you can endorse people studying unmarketable majors when you know that plenty of them will end up working at the mall. I know plenty of liberal arts students who strongly regret studying the liberal arts, because they have nothing better than working at the mall to do. Getting a 2.0 in engineering is a whole lot better than ending up working at the mall. </p>
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Just as you pointed out, people should exercise daily, and shouldn't smoke. There are a lot of things people should know that they don't, and I think this is one of them.
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<p>Which is why we should encourage positive behavior. I am not FORCING anybody to get a marketable degree, just like I don't propose to completely ban smoking. However, by default, you want to encourage better behavior. </p>
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Wow. Thats all I can say. Place students into engineering (or any major) by default, good idea, lets do it for the good of the econonmy!
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<p>Again, look at what the situation is today. Do you think it is good? Do you think it is healthy for the economy to have so many people get liberal arts degrees and then end up in low-end jobs? </p>
<p>I think what I am proposing is better, not because I think engineering is perfect (in fact, I wrote many posts stating that it is not), but rather because I think the current situation is WORSE. There are literally hundreds of thousands of new liberal arts graduates being produced every year, many of which will not find decent jobs. Is that good for society? </p>
<p>The worst part about it is that most people will get liberal arts degrees at public schools, which are strongly subsidized by the taxpayers. So essentially, you, I, and everybody else is paying for these people to get degrees, and then end up working at the mall. I would say that if somebody wants to take their own money to get an unmarketable degree, then that's their life, but they shouldn't be allowed to milk a taxpayer subsidy to do it. Most public universities started life as purely technical institutes - i.e. teaching mining, agriculture, engineering, technology, and so forth, because the government deemed that these disciplines would help the country grow economically. Only in the last few decades did many of these universities begin to teach the liberal arts. I think society needs to think about where taxpayer dollars should really be going to. Is society better off in subsidizing another engineering (or another nurse, or another doctor, etc.), or another History major, or another American Studies major? I think this is a valid concern.</p>
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Therein, I've tried to give some useful insight regarding why engineering is generally not a good choice, using real world facts which are pretty much not debatable (example: lack of enforcement of (or requirement for) professional registration by engineers). I really probably gave more personal insight that I should have, but I wanted to CLEARLY illustrate the realities faced by many (not all, of course) engineers today.
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<p>Again, nobody ever said that engineering was the greatest thing. What I am saying is that it is BETTER than the liberal arts. You talk about engineers having problems. Sure. But liberal arts majors REALLY have problems. After all, who is probably better off, the engineering graduate, or the History graduate? Be honest.</p>