<p>What are the hours for a average lawyer?</p>
<p>It varies tremendously depending upon your field of law, the city or town in which you live, the environment in which you practice (big firm, small firm, corporation, solo, etc.) and other factors. There is no "average" lawyer out there - just lawyers who focus on different things in different places.</p>
<p>So does that mean that a lawyer can work from 9 to 5 in a small firm and get paid 80k or so. I mean I was told that most lawyers work for big law firms and that there not that many lawyers in smaller firms working fewer hours and getting paid lesser.</p>
<p>Less, not lesser.</p>
<p>Most lawyers work about 12 hours a day, the salary varies depending on which field you are a part of.</p>
<p>anybody know if getting a BS in BioChem or Biology looks "ok" to law schools ? Also, anything special you can do as a lawyer with these kind of degrees ?</p>
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So does that mean that a lawyer can work from 9 to 5 in a small firm and get paid 80k or so.
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<p>first of all - it depends more on the nature of the practice than merely the size of the firm. and many of the factors that lead to long hours can be the same in a smaller firm - ie client demands, filing deadlines, etc.</p>
<p>second - you can't assume that you can decide you want small firm practice and that you will be able to get a job paying you the money you want. Small firms be definition hire fewer attorneys than large ones!!! Some small firms rarely add new lawyers -- and when they do, they want to add someone who will bring something to the practice (translate as clients), not someone right out of law school who essentially knows little. And if they are hiring someone with less experience -- that new attorney really needs to stop and think about whether the firm will give them the chance to learn what they need to learn to practice the type of law they want.</p>
<p>There is no simple and easy route to making money and controlling your hours as a lawyer. Even opening your own practice isn't an easy option for a new attorney.</p>
<p>I’m not a lawyer, so I could be way off base. In my experience, people exaggerate about the number of hours they work and very few people are disciplined enough to work 60 hours a weeks over a period of time longer than a month or two. I am sure 60+ hour work weeks happen frequently, but I doubt that would be the average. These numbers are thrown around all the time like it is just some little thing, but 60 hours a week over a long period of time is no small feat. People get pushed until they push back, and I can’t imagine lawyers do not start pushing back, just like other humans, when the hours get crazy.</p>
<p>I wouldn't bet on that. Look at the hours of I-Bankers. Even if they are exaggerated, they can still be greater than 60-70 hrs/week even after taking a 10-20% "discount."</p>
<p>I am not disputing the fact that there are people who work more than 60 hours a week. I am disputing the assertion that the average lawyer does.</p>
<p>careerchange- sorry, but if you aren't a lawyer, you really can't speak about it can you? lawyers bill their hours -- they therefore keep pretty accurate account of those hours. and those are the "billable ones" -- not every minute you are at work will end up being billable. if anything, in my experience (both as a former practicing lawyer and someone who knows many practicing lawyers) lawyers often describe their hours as less than they are because they don't want to believe just how bad their hours really are. </p>
<p>who do you expect the lawyer's to "push back" against -- the client who take their business elsewhere? the court that has set a filing deadline? the sneior partner who will determine the associate's future? there are plenty of lawyers who get tired of the hours -- they leave the practice of law or look for some alternative practice where they have more control of their hours (which are NOT easy to come by). But anyone considering the practice of law, should really do so with their eyes open, not making assumptions that what everyone is telling them must be merely an exaggeration.</p>
<p>it depends on what your idea of an avg lawyer is.</p>
<p>if you're considering big law (like many CC kids)</p>
<p>read that page, it explains how billable hours work and how many hours you can expect to be working.</p>
<p>Great link, DC. </p>
<p>I think it's tough for people who have never billed hours to understand how the system works. I billed hours when I worked in college & after graduation... really understand that you can spend 50 hours a week at your desk, be very efficient, but only bill 40.</p>
<p>Does billing hours give a law firm the ability to say, "Hey, we need money. Let's be inefficient for a while here, bill these lax hours, and make extra money this way." ?</p>
<p>dcfca, that was a great link. Thank you!</p>
<p>Blaze, if you purposely bill more hours for less work, you will have violated the ethics rules, and can be subject to discipline and even disbarment if the charges are serious enough. That is definitely not a path you want to go down. Keep in mind, too, that clients review your itemized bills very carefully (which is why law firms often write off a certain percentage of the hours that young lawyers bill, since sometimes, despite that young lawyer's best efforts, it simply took too long to do a task), and often aggressively ask why you spent 6.5 hours researching and writing a memo on some grey area in the law. There are good reasons why top partners in NYC, for example, are billed out at $500/hour or more. First, they have a career's worth of knowledge that a client taps into when that lawyer does work for them. Second, that lawyer may just be darn smart, and you are paying for his or her mental abilities. Finally, that lawyer's experience and ability leads to that lawyer often being able to accomplish for the client in 15 minutes what it may take a junior lawyer 1 1/2 hours to do (e.g. reviewing an agreement sent by the other side and coming up with an "issues list" for the client).</p>
<p>How much per billable hour does a junior associate make?</p>
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How much per billable hour does a junior associate make?
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<p>Well its pretty simple to calculate. Salary / billable hours.</p>
<p>I think that for first years at the big law firms in NY got a pay raise this year and were bumped up to $145,000 so take that and divide it by how many hrs you have to bill, say 2000. that ends up being $72.50 before taxes and whatever other deductions can occur. If you end up working 2100 hours your hourly pay is now $69.05, and so on.</p>
<p>Considering that junior lawyers work a wide variety of hours on average, ranging from probably 35 hours a week to 100 hours a week, it's pretty tough to say how much a junior lawyer would make per hour. Take home pay also varies considerably depending upon where that lawyer lives and works, the employer (because, for example, contributions to health care insurance and other benefits differs by employer), and elections that the lawyer may make (like contributing to a 401k).</p>
<p>I think that it's important to look at how many hours a junior lawyer is actually working, not the amount of hours that that lawyer is billing (which matters only for purposes of bonuses, promotions (in some cases) and to the client that is being billed.</p>
<p>Here's one example (junior lawyer, big firm, NYC/LA, corporate or litigation departments):</p>
<p>Annual base salary - $145,000 per year
4 weeks vacation per year -- assume that the lawyer takes all of them (often you won't actually get to take more than 2-3 weeks)
If the associate if billing 60 hours a week (as you know, a low to moderate assumption), that associate is actually working at least 70-75 hours a week (not including time commuting), so we'll use the 70 hours figure instead of the billable hours figure</p>
<p>70 hours per week x 48 weeks per year = 3360 hours per year worked</p>
<p>It works out to about $43-44 per hour.</p>
<p>Is that considered a high salary? Lawyers in big law generally make a lot but also work long hours, so when you consider those two factors, is their hourly pay considered a lot?</p>
<p>Is there a place for lawyers to choose to work in smaller firms where they can work fewer hours and not have to bill as many hours?</p>
<p>Rolen,</p>
<p>I'm not sure if this answers your question but associates don't get paid based on their hours, they are generally paid a fixed salary. Any profit is retained by the firm. So if an associate generates 2000 billable hours a year at $100 per hour then, assuming that all the fees are billed and collected, the associate will generate $200,000 in revenue for the firm. If the associate's salary is $75,000 a year, the firm made a gross profit of $125,000 a year from employing that associate. Firms expect to make that kind of money off their associates, and associates want to move up the ladder and become partners or shareholders (depending on how the firm is organized) so they can share in the profits. If an associate does not generate enough billable hours to exceed his/her salary, or if the fees can't be billed or collected, that associate probably won't be around very long (although there are exceptions where the firm assigns the associate to a less lucrative area such as pro bono work).</p>