<p>I am a HS Senior, who is considering attending a CC after I graduate. I eventually would like to go to graduate school, and get my Doctorate in the field of Math or Science. Going to CC will be easier on me, because it is cheaper and allows me to stick at home for the first few years, before I am ready to actually go to a 4 year school.</p>
<p>Down the road, after I graduate from a 4 year school, let's say I decided to apply to a Graduate program. How will CC colleges on my HS transcript be viewed? Are they going to negatively impact me? Am I going to be seen as coming from the minor leagues because I started out at an easier school, taking easier classes, or will they not care?</p>
<p>I know that some schools for graduates (Medical) prefer not to see CC classes on the trancsript, but others (Law), don't care much, if at all.</p>
<p>At least for math, you'll be severely limited in course selection if you go to a community college. You'd need to at least get a masters degree before you'd be ready to pursue a PhD program.</p>
<p>Baloney. Course selection depends on the CC. The one I went to had options similar to the intro 2 years of all the other public colleges in Illinois. California also has excellent CCs, and there are lots more.</p>
<p>My husband went to a CC in CA for 2 years. He ultimately graduated from a top 10 med school and is a physician. I went to a CC for 2 years, and I've gotten plenty of grad school acceptances and funding. Personally, I think a CC is a great way to save money, especially if you do plan to go to grad school. There's no reason to accumulate more debt than you can manage.</p>
<p>Be aware, though, that because you will be at your 4 year institution for only 2 years, you will have to work harder to develop good relationships with your profs and to seek out research opportunities.</p>
<p>I strongly recommend against the CC. You'll set yourself up for an uphill battle. It's probably true that some CCs have decent course selection and quality, but are professors at prestigious programs going to believe that? How will they know that you went to a "good" CC?</p>
<p>Also, ask yourself about the quality of education you want to receive. I took courses at my local (and probably crummy) CC while in high school, including math through DiffEQ. My undergrad wouldn't accept the transfer credits, and lo and behold, the math classes here are completely different: proof-based, thought-provoking, difficult. The course titles may be identical, but it's not the same education. Maybe your CC is different, but how will you know until it's too late?</p>
<p>If you see math or science as your future, you should strive to get the best coursework you can. Suck it in and take out some loans. Go to the best school that will accept you. And do some research while you're there!</p>
<p>P.S. Not sure if this was a typo, but your HS transcript will not be a factor in admission to grad school. You will have to submit your community college transcript, even if the transfer credits are listed on your 4-year school's transcript.</p>
<p>I know a grad student at Caltech that went to CC for two years prior to transferring to UCSD. He said the CC classes he took he learned the most in and found them to be the most rewarding.</p>
<p>I do agree with the above poster that mentioned how it might be hard to find a bunch of professors to get recommendations from, but if you can get some good summer jobs/internships/research opportunities then you shouldn't be that bad off.</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure if you want to get into a decent math grad school, you'll need to take more classes past the usual Calc III/DiffEQ/basic linear algebra offered at a CC than you can cram into 2 years, especially since you'll likely have to round out some general degree requirements. You also would never have enough background with "real" math to attempt any kind of "research" as an undergrad.</p>
<p>Also, at some schools, many people who plan on pursuing math don't even take those introductory courses which would be offered at a community college, they just start doing pure math from the start. In that case, you'd really just be setting yourself two years behind.</p>
<p>Guys, the grad school doesn't care where the CC is or how good it is. If you do well at your transfer institution, that's all they care about. Most CCs have an agreement with in-state public (and often private) colleges to accept transfer of their courses. If there's no such agreement, don't go to that CC. But if there is, you should be relatively assured of the quality. My CC had excellent classes, and I learned as much there as at my four-year. A wise person, no matter where then plan on going, will check with four-year schools to see what type of transfer credit they will accept. So if you plan to apply to a particular group of schools for a four-year degree, call them up and tell them your plans. Ask them how you can find out about transfer credit from a CC. They will think well of you for your forethought, and they will completely understand the economics of your decision.</p>
<p>The other advantage is that CC classes are smaller than the big lecture hall classes at many universities. That's a plus for a lot of people.</p>
<p>As far as math, there is no program that I know of that requires more coursework than can be completed in two years. A quick glance at a few department web pages give me the following:</p>
<p>Yale - 17 courses
Caltech - 18 units each term for junior and senior years
MIT - 9 courses, plus a few recommended analysis and algebra if going to grad school</p>
<p>If you wanted to be safe and give yourself three years to complete your requirements, you could take one year at a CC and then transfer, still saving yourself megabucks. Just use your one or two years at a CC to fulfill as many core requirements as possible. Coordinate with the places you plan to apply to do this. It's not a big deal - more people than you think do this - CC is not exactly a representative group!</p>
<p>'Down the road, after I graduate from a 4 year school, let's say I decided to apply to a Graduate program. How will CC colleges on my HS transcript be viewed? Are they going to negatively impact me? Am I going to be seen as coming from the minor leagues because I started out at an easier school, taking easier classes, or will they not care?"</p>
<p>Graduate schools won't care, as long as you do well in your upper division Math/Science courses at the four year school. If you do well in upper division courses at the four year school, then obviously the community college courses were adequate preparation. Graduate schools care most about your upper division coursework in the field in which you intend to do graduate work.</p>
<p>proof-based abstract algebra (1 year sequence)
proof-based calculus, proof-based linear algebra, proof-based multivariable calculus, proof-based differential equations, proof-based prob/statistics (1.7 year sequence)
....freshman year is full because of physics, chemistry, biology, menu, and hum requirements.</p>
<p>analysis and topology courses (1-year sequences)
computability theory (Ma6c, 1 term)
...sophomore year is full because of continuing physics and hum requirements.</p>
<p>two more full-year math sequences, or equiv. (2 years total)
graph theory, etc. (Ma6a, 1 term)
communication requirement (1 term)
more courses actually required to graduate and join a decent grad program (equiv. of 2 1-year sequences minimum)</p>
<p>...and Caltech will not take your CC transfer credits. Trust me, I tried. I assume the situation is similar at Yale and MIT: the coursework during freshman and sophomore years is very intensive, including full year analysis and topology sequences that CCs won't offer anyway, and upper-level junior and senior courses require those courses as prerequisites.</p>
<p>Again, that's why I pointed out that one should check carefully with the four-year colleges first. However, I cited Yale, etc.more to point out the typical reqs for a well-prepared math major. The vast majority of people simply aren't going to transfer to those places. Top state schools, though, are a different story. Places like UMich, UIUC, Berkeley, UCLA, etc. will take transfer credits from a CC pretty readily, providing you are either instate or check with them first.</p>
<p>IMHO, the two big problems with starting at a CC are:</p>
<p>1) Less time to get to know and work with your 4-year institution professors, whose recommendations will REALLY matter.</p>
<p>2) The potential problems with getting on track with coursework necessary for a major at the 4-year institution, and making sure one has the coursework expected by graduate programs. This is much tougher than one might expect, especially in some states.</p>
<p>You most likely need to take classes beyond the minimum required to get a major if you plan on applying to graduate school.</p>
<p>Anybody who transfered into U of M after two years from a community college would be two years behind almost everybody else applying to math grad school. People who are really serious about math (or math-intensive fields) have done introductory analysis, some topology, some abstract algebra, theoretical linear algebra, and differential geometry by the end of sophomore year. The person who transfered from a CC wouldn't have taken a single class that would qualify as "real math".</p>
<p>I think that would put you one year behind, not two. Presumably an advanced student could polish off Calc I-III, Linear Algebra, and Diff EQ by the end of his Freshman year, but probably not before he even starts at the University.</p>
<p>At any rate, in response to the OP's question, it sounds like they're not going to toss your application in the incinerator because it has CC work on it. I guess I'm summing up some other posts here, so while it will make it harder to prove your suitability for graduate school, it sounds like it won't be a mark against you.</p>
<p>Personally, I'm a math major with aspirations for a graduate degree, transferring into the UC system this Fall. If I had known that I would be fairly good at math--and if I had had my head on straight when I was 22--I would have tried to go right into the UCs. As it stands, I think I will be able to make up the difference through a lot of effort, and I think that if you start off at a CC and perform pretty well through your undergraduate education then you shouldn't be at a terrible disadvantage for many decent grad programs.</p>
<p>You guys assume a CC wouldn't have the classes you're mentioning. Mine did. I just double checked. Calc and Analytic Geometry I-III, Linear Alg, Diff Eq, and Proofs. All at a CC. I also checked my husband's CC, and they had linear and diff eq as well. Be careful of the assumptions you make. Not all CCs are crappy.</p>
<p>I'm not sure if that's aimed at me, but I was assuming that a CC student <em>could</em> complete those courses, hence placing a transfer student at most one year behind a well motivated university student vs. two years.</p>
<p>Again, depending on the programs requirements... (;</p>
<p>No, not aimed at you. As you and I have both said, it depends on the program, it's not impossible, only one year at the CC might be the best option, and check transfer credits before making a decision.</p>
<p>I assumed a CC has all of those courses, but none of them are actually prerequisite to doing higher mathematics. So at some schools (like mine), you can just skip those classes and do theoretical math from the beginning of freshmen year. So in effect, you'd be spending a year or two taking math classes that your peers (/people you'll be compared to in graduate admissions) never bothered with.</p>
<p>I agree that spending 1-2 years at a CC would work out in many cases, and it's always possible to finish your official upper-level requirements in only two years. That doesn't mean you're going to be a well-qualified applicant for graduate school, especially if you start off at least a year or two behind everybody else at your 4 year university.</p>