<p>my psychology book said explicitly that asians performed better than white americans because of their culture. higher expectations and what not. it would be a turn off to alot of people if schools were 50+% asian. just saying.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Fabrizio, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that report (which I believe Jian Li cited in his lawsuit) based primarily on standardized test scores?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not sure if the study itself was based primarily on standardized test scores. The results were given in terms of scores, though.</p>
<p>Bob9975, your a smart kid, take one for the team, and quit while your behind..lol j/k but seriously dude ...your perspective is way tooo large there is very little racism at least in America towards groups like jews, Arabs, and Sikhs...especially not in higher education ..be serious... </p>
<p>When you google "racisim in america" the first thing you see is black person and the KKK. Its obvious who is the real target of overt racism is, at least in america. While all the races you listed might of experienced racism in america, none of them where prevented from learning or picking up a book. Even when african-americans were able to get an education...they were not given equal education as other students til 1954 (brown vs. Board of education) thats only 57 years ago that african americans could even consider having the same education as whites. Colleges only limited the number of jews never prevented them from going...there are still colleges in America that are still segregated...</p>
<p>"no one has a problem with Jews representing 30% of student populaion"</p>
<p>source please??...religion is not reported anywhere...no one knows my religion anywhere...its not b/c its a secret its b/c no on asks and colleges dont care.</p>
<p>"most top tier schools that campuses are overwhelmingly liberal" </p>
<p>Political party preference is something that changes frequently...no one cares what political party you follow...remember those are just surveys which are taken from a sample size and not a real reflection of the entire student body or professors.</p>
<p>"point guard to basketball analogy is extremely weak. are people of different races so drastically different- the same way a point guard and center would have completely opposite responsibilities and skills?"</p>
<p>yes man, we wouldnt be having this debate if we didnt have drastically diff views and im only half black lol....you can go through this thread and just by comments distinguish who comes from what ethnic background.</p>
<p>"could you maybe provide some concrete examples of how maybe racial diversity might be of benefit?"</p>
<p>Look before your eyes, b/c its right in front of you...this very thread is an example of diversity at its finest</p>
<p>Remember man, asians arent against AA b/c they dont believe it doesnt serve a good purpose...the majority of asains are against it because they "believe" it hinders there chances at top schools..</p>
<p>kcb452,</p>
<p>It's interesting how the "over-represented" nature of Jewish students does not deter non-Jewish students from enrolling at universities.</p>
<p>Maybe it's because it's way easier to spot an Asian (black hair) than it is to spot a Jew (no distinguishing characteristics, barring Hasidim)?</p>
<p>j</a>. - Students take note: Will your college be Jewish-friendly?</p>
<p>Considering that less than 2% of Americans identify as Jewish, 15-40% Jewish enrollment is "over-representation," don't you think?</p>
<p>In agreement with fabrizio's post, one could certainly make the argument that a class which is 30 percent Jewish would be over-represented. It would be stupid to make that argument, but it is no more stupid than saying that 30 percent Asian is too much. Whose to say that 30 percent is too much? </p>
<p>Also, someone said that it would be a turn off if a school was 50 percent Asian. I'm glad that he or she made this point. This is pure racism at its finest. What if that same school was 50 percent black or Jewish? Would you say the same thing? If "too much" of one race is a turn off for you, you need to reanalyze your moral values and take a good look at yourself. The problem is certainly not the school or the composition of the student body. The problem is in each and everyone of us.</p>
<p>"your perspective is way tooo large there is very little racism at least in America towards groups like jews, Arabs, and Sikhs..."</p>
<p>Sikhs and Arabs you can dispute, but are you seriously trying to dispute that there are severe amounts of anti-Semitism in America? maybe they haven't historically been discriminated against, except in college admissions, but there is definitely a significant amount of discrimination in America against them today. enough to be addressed in some way by Affirmative action- if its goal is to make amends for discrimination.</p>
<p>"When you google "racisim in america" the first thing you see is black person and the KKK. Its obvious who is the real target of overt racism is, at least in america. While all the races you listed might of experienced racism in america, none of them where prevented from learning or picking up a book. Even when african-americans were able to get an education...they were not given equal education as other students til 1954 (brown vs. Board of education) thats only 57 years ago that african americans could even consider having the same education as whites."</p>
<p>the "real" target of racism? people of all ethnicies are targets of racism- who are you to decide to set the bar that only the discrimination faced by blacks, hispanics, and native americans is worthy of being covered by affirmative action? has there been some magical study concluding that these three groups face the most racism on a daily basis?</p>
<p>""no one has a problem with Jews representing 30% of student populaion"</p>
<p>source please??...religion is not reported anywhere...no one knows my religion anywhere...its not b/c its a secret its b/c no on asks and colleges dont care."</p>
<p>again- if you truly mean "diversity" in the sense that it will provide a different perspective, then religion does matter. if you think the only "diversity" that matters is racial diversity- then you clearly don't think that diversity is about the learning experience, do you?</p>
<p>"Political party preference is something that changes frequently...no one cares what political party you follow...remember those are just surveys which are taken from a sample size and not a real reflection of the entire student body or professors."</p>
<p>diversity of ideas, no? or are you only in favor of racial diversity?</p>
<p>"Look before your eyes, b/c its right in front of you...this very thread is an example of diversity at its finest"</p>
<p>its sad that you take this thread to be an example of why you need diversity. do you find it surprising that Asians- the ones hurt most by affirmative action- are the only most passionately against it? or that, in general, most URMs tend to be advocating AA, since they get a nice little boost in college admissions from it?
is college life like that? is there a "black" perspective? a "white" perspective? etc.
I would love to hear what you some nice examples of how exactly race dictates thought and perspective.</p>
<p>it annoys me to no end how people pretend to care about the learning provided by "diversity"- a wide variety of perspectives- yet only care about racial diversity. would you learn from diversity if your campus was 70/10/10/10 white/asian/black/hispanic, but everyone was filthy rich and privilieged? or if everyone was conservative? or liberal? or all of the same religion?</p>
<p>note: I have no idea where i remember the 30% Jewish stat from, but the specific number isn't my point. Jews are way overrepresented at colleges as well- many times their population percentage.
Years ago, schools like Harvard chose to have quotas on the Jewish population. They rightfully decided that such a policy was despicable- and ceased to have Jewish quotas.
But somehow, someway, the same line of thought doesn't apply to race?</p>
<p>"sorry to put you on the spot man...you were just the last URM chance thread i answered"</p>
<p>haha no prob man</p>
<p>"do you find it surprising that Asians- the ones hurt most by affirmative action- "</p>
<p>Obviously, i was hurt by AA as well because i think my stats were good enough to get me in HYS (all of which I was rejected from) So i do believe Colleges look for disadvantaged minorities and it helps them.</p>
<p>minorities only make up 25% of the total population of the US, yet they account for 50-60% of the student body at the nations top universities....</p>
<p>@DukeBlueDevils,
That statement is so wrong and misleading I just have to respond.</p>
<p>True, according to a blunt reading of the 2000 census data, 75.1% of respondents identified themselves as White, but remember this includes people of European, North African, AND Middle Eastern ancestry. Additionally, Hispanic and Latino are not Races by the Census standards, instead they are reported separately, as a check box alongside each race as hispanic or not hispanic. This is another 12% or so of the population, half of which is white hispanic. So in terms of who would be considered a white for college admissions purposes, we're down to no more than 69%. And remember that the proportion of minorities in this country is growing and so the current percentage of White non-hispanic Americans is definitely less than that 69% number by now.</p>
<p>The other claim you make that minorities account for 50-60% of the student body at the nations top universities is also completely bogus. Let's go off the numbers from University</a> and College Accountability Network - Free. Easy. a handy website that gives us fact sheets on Universities, and I'll use my school as an example since I don't have time to look up a bunch.</p>
<p>The complete data shows this.
Race Unknown 13%
International Students 9%
White 47%
Hispanic 6%
Asian/Pacific islander 17%
American Indian/Alaskan Native <1%
Black 7%</p>
<p>The race unknown students are the ones who declined to report a race. At an affirmative action institution like the University of Pennsylvania, who wants to wager with me whether more white/asian students checked that box or URM students? But let's just assume that it's equally spread among the groups, and we'll exclude international students from the sample, and round american indian up to 1% even.</p>
<p>Minorities are then (31/78) = 39.7% of the student population. Remember that here like in the census figures, the 47% white includes students of North African and Middle Eastern descent. Remember that among unreported, the majority are likely to be white or asian. Remember that the majority of international students (whose financial aid packages are not as generous as for domestic students) are likely from wealthy developed western european countries.
Looking at the profile on the undergraduate admissions website of the class of 2011 profile, 38% of the class is Black, Hispanic, American Indian, or Asian, an even lower number than the one I came up with for the entire student body.</p>
<p>I have no idea where you got your numbers, but I highly doubt that the demographics of other top schools differ drastically from Penn.</p>