<p>Lets talk honors programs,</p>
<p>States U's like penn states and UMD have honors programs that they say is like having a LAC enviorment in a large States U, but is that really true? Also, is the quality of the honors classes much diffrent and do honors programs provide anywhere near as good an education as an ivy or top school?</p>
<p>The honors program at Nebraska has it's own dorm (you have to be in the honors program to live there) which I think greatly helps the community feeling of the program. When there are actually dedicated honors sections for various classes, then the enrollment was capped at about 24 (maybe a little more, a little less). There were also dedicated advisors for honors program students - essentially a second or third advisor (Advisor for your major, advisor for you minor if you had one, pre-professional advisor if you were pre-med or the like, and honors advisor) from which you could go to for help. </p>
<p>I was only in the Honors program at Nebraska for a year however (I wasn't particularly worried about my grades and thus didn't keep the necessary 3.5), and I didn't live in the honors dorm (I was in a fraternity) so I wasn't particularly attached to the honors program there. In my experience the classes that were actually "honors" sections of concurrent courses (ie Bio 201H vs Bio 201), the honors sections were actually easier. Part of this was having the best profs teach the honors sections, and having them actually want to be there teaching. But it did have what LAC's advertise in the small classes where the prof knows your name. In the bio class I took honors, the class read Finding Darwin's God as kind of an outside project and we met outside of class a couple times to discuss it. The one problem I saw with the Nebraska Honors Program was that as one moved to the 300 and 400 level classes (classes typically reserved for major and thus smaller enrollments anyway) there were fewer and fewer dedicated honors sections (which makes sense b/c there are going to be fewer and fewer people with the necessary pre-reqs and interest to take a class in the History of Sociological Theory) which meant that if you wanted Honors Credit for a class you had to "contract" it out as Honors with the prof. This would be some sort of extra project that you developed with the professor. It acheived the same goal however again as LAC's in that the prof knew your name and you got "individual attention" b/c you had to often times get help from a prof.</p>
<p>I dont' know about other programs however outside my own.</p>
<p>The one thing I wil take contention to though is the idea that there is this huge difference in the quality of education between an Ivy and a State school, particulary schools that are Research I or on other lists that show a dedication of resources to students. Particularly in the sciences: organic chemistry is organic chemistry. I'm sure there are crappy professors who only want to do research at Princeton, just like there are at State U. I don't want to start a huge flame war or debate on the relative importance of prestige here because that has been discussed over and over before. The biggest difference between State U and an Ivy lies in the student body, and in their average level of intelligence and motivation. There are plenty of people at any given State U who could have gone to an Ivy but for whatever reason chose not to, and there are plenty of kids at a State U who could never have gotten accepted at an Ivy no matter how badly they might have wanted to.</p>
<p>Honors Colleges are not substantially different from what the rest of the university experiences. No, they are not as good as an Ivy or any other top private. If you get into an honors college, that should tell you NOT to attend that university because you could be admitted at a much better college elsewhere. You would be selling yourself short to attend an honors college.</p>
<p>Collegehelp, I disagree with you completely. Honors Colleges differ greatly from school to school, but in the programs with which I've had experience, the difference is big. Going to an honors college isn't "selling yourself short." Often times, it's a way to connect with other intelligent people, get to know your professors and peers better, and get a better education -- all at the price of a state U.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if you would like to graduate from college free from debt (a rather good idea for some people, especially pre-meds, pre-vets, and pre-law students who have several more years of school to pay for), a state university honors college might be ideal. Many of the same top students who will be offered places in their state university's honors college will also be offered a nice bit fat merit scholarship from that same university. Here in Maryland, quite a few kids are in the honors program at UMCP because the school gave them so much merit scholarship money that they're basically going to college for free.</p>
<p>Honors colleges offer some very valuable perks and let you meet some of the top students at your college. But when you're thinking of honors colleges the pitch is often that you're getting an elite private education at the public school price. Sadly, this isn't true.</p>
<p>No honors college that I know of is a college in the sense that Amherst or Yale or whoever they like to imply they are like is a college; having its own faculty and giving its own degrees. Honors offerings mainly cover your 1st 2 years, and range from one class per semester to a package with all your classes. These classes are indeed in the honors college with the hand-picked profs and bright fellow students, but all the rest of your classes are out in the regular U.</p>
<p>And after the first 2 years you complete your degree by taking upper-division classes with the regular students in the regular university. Often there are supplementary honors discussion sections available, but in the end the majority (or even all) of the classes you take upper-division are the same ones everyone else takes. And class sizes may balloon, too, if your in a larger public U and a popular major. At the top colleges you continue in smaller classes with the same bright students around you that were there the 1st 2 years.</p>
<p>A digression for HS student who may not know how college classes are structured -- it is common to have lecture 3x a week by the prof, and then meet once a week with a grad student in a class of 15-25 students. This is called the discussion section. So for more popular majors, the honors college may be able to arrange one discussion section available only to the honors college students.</p>
<p>Honors colleges do offer some valuable perks for those who can't attend a true elite college for whatever reason. Typical ones include registering for classes before everyone else so you get the classes you want (a perk worth its weight in gold!), special counselors, guaranteed housing, special library privileges. They will stamp your diploma with some indication of honors college or make a note on your transcript.</p>
<p>But if you think its just like going to Williams or Dartmouth or whatever at 1/5 the cost, it just 'aint so.</p>
<p>BTW also see the thread at <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=190060&page=1&pp=15%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=190060&page=1&pp=15</a></p>
<p>I don't think anyone has suggested that it's a substitute for Harvard. But it's definitely a great option, if available.</p>
<p>I wouldn't recommend listening to collegehelp or anyone who hasn't actually experienced the honors college experience. I can only speak on behalf of the University of Michigan, where I'm an honors student, but yes, the sense of community has been very strong (probably LAC-like given the similar enrollments). And in Michigan's case, i would argue strongly against collegehelp and say that it's better than most Ivy League schools. Statistically speaking, Michigan honors college students are more qualified and better students than the average ivy league student, not to mention that many of Michigan's programs are ranked higher than that of many Ivies, so given the more personal experience in an honors college, I chose Michigan over the bulk of the Ivies and know I made the right decision.</p>
<p>It differs greatly, but many schools really do have great honors colleges.</p>
<p>the biggest issue I see with collegehelp's advice is the fact that yeah...so what that you could be admitted elsewhere, that sort of attitude ignores a lot of other factors that play into a lot of people's college decision. Just going where your stats "match" is not a good way to select a home for the next four years.</p>
<p>The fact is that the honors colleges at state schools provide good opportunities for people who want the benefits a state school can provide (greek life, division I sports, greater variety of majors/minors, lower cost, closer to home, etc) but also want to have what the LAC's so effectively market - smaller class sizes, closer contact with profs, and so on.</p>
<p>I'll be doing the honors program at Bowling Green this year (well, technically next year since I signed up for a different learning community and can't switch.) and I think the honors programs a pretty neat. There's a completely different dorm for it and a lot of the classes are in the dorm itself. (more info: <a href="http://www.bgsu.edu/offices/honors/IMPACT/about.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.bgsu.edu/offices/honors/IMPACT/about.html</a>) But, if you're going into an honors college expecting to get LAC-like education, you'll probably be let down.</p>