<p>^“Surely you could have thought of a better example of American presidential eloquence.”</p>
<p>Well, you’re right about that.
Obama (maybe, JFK, too) would fare pretty well in comparison, though I’m hard pressed to think of any others who readily come to mind.</p>
<p>Of course Oxbridge still carries the highest international prestige but those really in the know will always want to know which *college *you attended there. It makes a real difference unlike at Harvard or Yale.</p>
<p>Thank you guys for your comments and opinions. I appreciate it. There seems to be a lot of mixed answers though rather than a general consensus. I guess the general consensus is that Oxbridge is at least equal to YPSMC while some others even say they are "as prestigious (among educated persons) as Harvard, and, perhaps, more so. " </p>
<p>I just want to remind everyone that my thread is specific about a graduate degree from Oxbridge if that makes any difference to anyone’s views - undergrad prestige is welcome to be discussed, but that won’t really help me. I am already going to an American university for undergrad. So I don’t know if the “US broad LAC curriculum vs. UK hardcore subject specific education” really even holds any weight for my question since graduate degrees in most places on this planet don’t require many if any classes outside of the exact topic you are studying. </p>
<p>Also Marsden, I totally understand what you are talking about because the constituent college within the school says a lot too, but part of my question was just about “public prestige,” and I’d be happy enough if people simply at least recognized the name. That was what I was mainly wondering. I think maybe my Cornell friend just seems to be a weird exception. But my reason for making the thread was because I was wondering if people from Asia, Middle East, etc had any idea what Oxbridge is or if they would have a higher chance knowing what Harvard is. </p>
<p>Thanks again guys.</p>
<p>Ahh! Well, anyone (anywhere in the world!) in a position to hire someone with a graduate degree and who hasn’t heard of Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or Yale is probably not worth working for! Your Cornell friend is definitely a “weird exception” :)</p>
<p>Now! Having said all of that, I also agree with a couple of remarks upthread to the effect that Oxbridge are *more *well-known in Commonwealth countries.</p>
<p>Whether or not they are truly “better”, I will say that Oxbridge are more renowned than any American university other than Harvard. These universities and their reputations have withstood the test of time for 800 years. Sir Isaac Newton, Sir Francis Bacon, Charles Darwin, James Watson, Francis Crick, Niels Bohr, Ernest Rutherford, Stephen Hawking, J.J. Thompson, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Oliver Cromwell, John Maynard Keynes, John Harvard, and many others studied at Cambridge; Oxford claims William Gladstone, Margaret Thatcher, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, John Wycliffe, Robert Hooke, John Wesley, and, of course, countless others. Sure, HYPSM spend more on research and are probably more productive universities at this point, but in terms of cumulative impact on humanity, Oxbridge win by miles.</p>
<p>Oxford and Cambridge are on the same level as Harvard to me and everyone I know.</p>
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<p>HYPSM are better than Oxbridge for a graduate degree, especially a Ph.D (better resources, more rigorous program). For undergraduate degrees, the Oxbridge model compares favorably to the US liberal arts/general education model, which is seen in Europe as shallow and not rigorous enough.</p>
<p>^ That’s what I was worried about. So Oxbridge falls short of producing Ph.Ds to Harvard’s quality consistently?</p>
<p>No, a UK doctorate doesn’t fall short. </p>
<p>US graduate degrees generally take longer and require 2-3 years of coursework before you can focus on your dissertation. UK doctorates are research degrees so you need to be prepared to start independent research very early on. A lot will depend on the field you wish to study. For example, an Oxford doctorate in International Relations is highly respected and the US State Dept has numerous top level staff with Oxford D.Phils. </p>
<p>In any case, you choose a doctoral program on the basis of where the best researchers in your areas of interest are, and go to the depts that will admit you and/or give you funding. In other words, the focus is more on the dept., not the school, unlike undergrad studies. So, if you’re trying to pick a program primarily on the basis of the prestige of the university in which the program is situated, you might be focused on the wrong criteria.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the replies guys. Is there any ranking at all besides ([World’s</a> Best Universities; Top 400 Universities in the World | US News](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world]World’s”>http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world)) that puts Oxford or Cambridge above Harvard? I can’t seem to find any others.</p>
<p>What’s this obsession with Harvard? It almost seems like you’re in it for the prestige rather than the degree. I hope I’m wrong. But if so, you’ll not likely be happy wherever you end up. You’ll get into whichever school you determine is the “top” one and then see it from the inside…warts and all…then be unhappy because you’ll feel like someone might be better.</p>
<p>Just an interesting external reference point, from the Microsoft Research Faculty Program. It is a prestigious program that "recognizes innovative, promising new faculty members from a number of research institutions whose exceptional talent for research and innovation identifies them as emerging leaders in their fields. " It typically selects 7 winners from four regions, Latin America and the Caribbean; Europe, the Middle East, and Africa; the United States and Canada; and Australia and New Zealand. </p>
<p>Anyway, one of the eligibility criteria states: "In the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, nominees must hold a tenure-track faculty position, and should have completed their most recent PhD, ScD, or MD in 2005 or later. In Latin America, nominees must hold a permanent faculty position and must have obtained their PhD degree in 2005 or later. In Europe, nominees must have obtained their PhD or equivalent degree more than two years but fewer than eight years prior to their nominations (justified extensions such as maternity leave may be accepted). " It has been translated to mean that European PhDs need two years beyond their doctorates to be eligible, as oppose to PhDs from other regions.</p>
<p>Orangelogic, I’m not in it solely for the prestige, I just merely made this thread out of curiosity because I thought maybe I was overestimating the brand/recognition of Oxbridge because of some anecdotal evidence I encountered. I was wondering if it was merely anecdotal or across the board. I have no obsession with Harvard, just using it as the standard benchmark for brand name. </p>
<p>PCHope, that’s interesting. Maybe that is because of how short European time to degrees are.</p>
<p>sorry to hijack this but what about other British elite unis like: LSE, UCL, Imperial?</p>
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<p>What else did you expect? “Outside of Europe” covers billions of people. “Oxford and Cambridge” are large, complex institutions. A physicist at CERN will have a different perspective than an investment banker in NYC. Perhaps neither one has an opinion that has any bearing on your own interests and needs.</p>
<p>Oxford and Cambridge are famous all over the world. Surely you know that. So what? Do you think the Oxford brand name alone, compared to the Harvard brand name alone, will make a significant difference to people who matter in a hiring decision? If people were that stupid, would you really want to work for them?</p>
<p>tk21769, I didn’t mean to actually get you riled. I just wanted a straight comparison between Oxbrige and Harvard. And to answer your question, no I wouldn’t want to work for them, but yes, I want to know how many people think like those people do.</p>
<p>If you want to see rankings, here’s one [World’s</a> Best Universities; Top 400 Universities in the World | US News](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world]World’s”>http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world)</p>
<p>Short answer (from my experience as a HS student): Very well but from a distance.</p>
<p>Long answer: People recognize they are really good schools and all that, but your average U.S. student is not going to know much more beyond that about specialties or anything really specific. Teachers/administrators/other students I have talked to have all been fairly discouraging towards a U.S. student attending one of these schools because they are in England. The A-levels don’t always line up with the classes we take here and the SAT/ACT tests and from what I have been told, we learn different things. You also have to take certain entrance exams that there aren’t a ton of access to here and the whole aid issue. A top student could count on very good financial aid in the states but will not get any in most situations like this and that is very prohibitive to a lot of people. For an anecdotal example, a friend of mine was looking into the medical program at Oxford and found she needed to take a test (BMAT I think?) to apply. This test was only offered once at a center about 5 hours away from where we live (and we live right outside a major city). So while they are regarded as top schools and have global recognition, most people in the U.S. will probably not know much about them beyond general reputation unless they work in academic fields.</p>
<p>"Thanks for all the replies guys. Is there any ranking at all besides (World’s Best Universities; Top 400 Universities in the World | US News) that puts Oxford or Cambridge above Harvard? I can’t seem to find any others. "</p>
<p>Yes - QS world rankings have put Cambridge #2, #1, #1 for the last three years which was clearly above Harvard.</p>
<p>THES put Oxford #2.</p>