<p>I know a friend who is an engineer who goes to Cornell but has never even heard of Cambridge. I don't know if this is common even among the educated. I would expect people to at least know the name or something. I am just wondering how Oxbridge is viewed outside of Europe (both in the US and the other parts of the world) if I were to gain admission for graduate studies (that is obviously a big if) and were to come back to the states or settle in other countries. Anecdotes as well as concrete evidence are appreciated. </p>
<p>Is it on the same level of prestige as Harvard globally or no? I'm not ignorant, I know the quality of Oxbridge, but I'm asking for public perception around the world. Is Harvard just exponentially better known for example? Would you have a hard time getting a Wall Street/top University position/prestigious job with an Oxbridge degree vs. American degrees?</p>
<p>I would think that a degree from either would open a lot of doors anywhere in the United States, particularly in academia. Yes, they are very well-respected in the United States. I’m very surprised that your friend hadn’t heard of Cambridge.</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback Marsian, but anyone else? I kind of hoped more than 1 person would reply to this; does no one recognize the names in the topic title? I need more than one opinion to really figure this out. Maybe I was right and these colleges are no names in the states? I seriously thought they were “top/tier 1 schools.” I guess not???</p>
<p>Next year I’ll be attending Oxford College of Emory University. When I tell people I’m going to Oxford College, they immediately think I’m going to a super prestigious university in England. These aren’t just the highly educated either. These are students who’ve always planned on going to the local community college, and never looked into schools. If that demographic knows what Oxford University is, then at least one of the Oxbridge schools is extremely prestigious in the US (and probably in Asia too)</p>
<p>I’m an American who did a master’s degree at Cambridge and am now there doing a PhD. Trust me, everybody knows and is very impressed by Oxbridge. I’ve had the same “holy crap you went/go to Cambridge” conversation hundreds of times. People go crazy. So much so that I’m now embarrassed when people ask me where I went to school. It’s not that I’m embarrased about Cambridge…I’m very proud. It’s just that all of a sudden a casual conversation between two people where the give-and-take should be equal ALWAYS becomes a lop-sided “tell me everything about Cambridge” conversation.</p>
<p>As far as being compared to Harvard or other top U.S. schools (first off…why the obsession with Harvard?) goes, people often respond to hearing “Cambridge” with “I knew a guy who went to Harvard” or “I applied to Yale but got rejected.” So yes, people view Oxbridge as on par with the top U.S. schools. Of course not in every subject but I’m speaking generally. And I’m not arguing that this impression is justified (though I think it is), only saying that it is the impression of most people.</p>
<p>Nobody is ever going to not hire you because you went to Oxbridge and not Harvard - just like they’d be happy with a solid applicant from a state university. This website seems to be “top school” obsessed, forgetting that you can get an outstanding education with outstanding career options from a very large number of good solid schools in both the U.S. and abroad.</p>
<p>Thanks for the anecdotes. Is there any specific evidence/poll/rankings anyone can point me to that measure public/recruiter/professional opinion of Oxbridge? </p>
<p>I’m reassured more so now. However, aside from the US, is Oxbridge known as well or is it just Europe and North America?</p>
<p>In the US, Oxbridge are the only non-American universities which are very well known. Outside the US, Oxbridge is very well-known along with other British schools.</p>
<p>I have lived and worked in US and Asia. In my experiences, Oxbridge are probably the only non-American universities perceived with the same prestige as HYPSM.</p>
<p>In Hollywood, they say you’re only a star if you’re a star in America.</p>
<p>If you look at the top feeder high schools in America–schools that send dozens or hundreds of students to UChicago, Stanford, MIT, and the Ivies–basically no one (or hardly anyone) applies to Oxford or Cambridge. There is absolutely no interest in American students in studying in England–unless it’s to go to Oxford for a Rhodes Scholarship. (At Harvard-Westlake in Los Angeles, for example, over the past 5 years, 0 students went to Cambridge and 1 student to Oxford.)</p>
<p>By the way, most Americans think Germany is in Florida somewhere, so I wouldn’t kid yourself if you think that they spend much time dreaming of Oxford or Cambridge. If it isn’t in the U.S., it’s not on their radar screen. I’ve seen the public opinion polls and trust me, if it isn’t an American football school, they don’t know about it. </p>
<p>I have no doubt that Oxford and Cambridge are highly thought of by academics in America, but that is not the public at large, if you are worried about social prestige.</p>
<p>Ordinarily, I wouldn’t be a big supporter of American parochialism, but in this case I don’t think it’s an entirely a bad thing–for undergraduates. Save Oxbridge for grad school. Anyone who knows the British system will tell you there is simply no concept of a liberal arts education in England. If you go to Oxbridge, you study math or whatever subject but there is no attempt to give a well-rounded general education. Generally you study for 3 years not 4. In addition, Oxford and Cambridge have huge undergraduate populations–about 12,000 students each–much larger than the top American schools. Plus, Oxbridge and Cambridge are not as selective as the top American schools. Oxford claims it has 5 applicants for every spot, which means it has at least a 20% acceptance rate and probably higher (depending on yield).</p>
<p>Great for grad school but don’t waste your time as an undergraduate, except for a short-term study abroad program, if you are American. (It makes sense for British.)</p>
<p>^^ Nonsense—not all of it, but much of it, despite its pseudo-worldly-wise tone.</p>
<p>There are several reasons why not many students from “top-feeder” high schools in America don’t go to Oxford and Cambridge. Among these reasons are the difficulty of admission and the cost for international students. At Oxford or Cambridge you must be admitted to one of their residential colleges. Besides, it’s ridiculous to conclude that there’s simply no interest based on what students at some unknown high school in LA choose to do. (Some British universities that have easier admission standards than Oxbridge, e.g. St. Andrews, have become quite popular among American students in recent years.)</p>
<p>While the proverbial man on the American street may not have heard of Oxford or Cambridge, the prestige of most schools tends to be regional. Harvard and perhaps few others will be known nationally. Educated persons (not necessarily including random Cornell engineering students), not limited to academics, will have heard of most top American universities. Undoubtedly, they will have heard of Oxford and Cambridge, too, even if they can’t name any other foreign universities.</p>
<p>Yes, it’s true that the American concept of liberal arts education isn’t a main feature of English universities. Nonetheless, the notion of liberal education owes something to British thinking on the matter (e.g., Cardinal Newman) and it is said that the American university is a hybrid of the English residential college and the German research university. (In fact, both Harvard and Yale deliberately attempted to emulate the Oxford and Cambridge residential colleges in several respects.) English students arrive at the university ready to specialize. Some subjects, however, allow a student to take a broader range of courses outside his or her specialty. Three years is the traditional length of time to completion of a degree, but several courses (e.g., languages) require four years.</p>
<p>Oxford is the oldest English-speaking university and Cambridge next. Both were among the earliest university foundations in the entire world, and precede Harvard by about four centuries. They are both very prestigious throughout the world, especially in countries that were formerly part of the British empire (e.g., much of Africa, India, etc.). The Oxford University Press and Cambridge University Press have spread their names far and wide. For centuries they educated the ruling class in Britain and its empre, and still educate the leaders of numerous countries. They are very prestigious among American elites as well, whether in finance, the foreign service, or academia. They are every bit as prestigious as Harvard, if not more so (not necessarily as good in every field, but as prestigious).</p>
<p>According to my experiences，HYPSM > Oxbridge = UCB > the rest in the world.
It’s easier to get into oxbridge than HYPSM, and I don’t know anyone who picks oxbridge over HYPSM.</p>
<p>@goldenboy8784， the silly logics goes for you as well.
I’ve exclusively stated that “I don’t know anyone”.
what’s the difference between “I don’t know anyone”(in my post) and “I know”(in your post)?
please, enlight me.
I’m just simply providing my own experience as you are, anything wrong with that? Does that hurt you? who cares?
You started the SILLY personal attack man.</p>
<p>Indeed, your American parochialism is showing !</p>
<p>First of all, the fact that Oxbridge acceptance rates are higher than those of the US Ivies doesn’t mean Oxford and Cambridge are less selective. It just means they get fewer applicants for the available places. There are multiple reasons why that happens. To begin with, one cannot apply simultaneoulsy to both Oxford and Cambridge; under the UCAS system, you have to pick only one of the them. Furthermore, pupils who are not predicted to get the minimum required A*AA scores in at least 3 traditional subjects at full A-level (A2) or the equivalent 766 at HL in the IB with an overall score of 40 or higher don’t even bother to apply because they know their chances of admission are close to zero. </p>
<p>Second, Oxford and Cambridge may have over 10,000 undergraduate students, but students get individual one-to-one instruction or, in the worst case scenario, in small groups of two or three students. That is called the tutorial system, and there’s nothing quite like it in the US.</p>
<p>Third, undergraduate degrees last 3 years in England in part because students enter university at a much higher level than in the US. Basically GCSE’s, which are exams that British students take at ages 15-16 (year 11), are roughly equivalent to the standard American High School diploma (maybe slightly more advanced), whereas A-levels, taken between ages 16 and 18 (years 12 and 13), are roughly equivalent to the first year of college in the US, but with a narrower selection of subjects (usually 4 or 5 in year 12, dropping to 3 or 4 in year 13). Moreover, although it is true that UK bachelor’s degrees are specialized and there is no such thing as “general education requirements” as in the US, it is nonetheless possible to combine two or, sometimes, up to three subjects in one single degree provided that those subjects are related (e.g. mathematics and computer science; mathematics and economics; history and modern languages; philosophy, politics, and economics; engineering and management, etc.). Also, in the case of engineering in particular and increasingly in the natural sciences (physics, chemistry, etc.) and mathematics, students can now choose 4-year undergraduate degrees that allow them to graduate with both a bachelor’s and a master’s degree.</p>
<p>Finally, I suspect there are several reasons why few Americans apply to Oxbridge. First, studying in the UK is expensive for international students as there is little or no financial aid available for non-resident students and tuition fees are not capped for internationals as they are for EU nationals. American students therefore normally have to pay full tuition, plus room and board and college fees out of their pockets. Second, admission is very difficult for American students who do not hold an international qualification like the IB or A-levels. That is essentially because Oxford and Cambridge colleges consider the American High School diploma and SATs "not sufficient for a competitive application " and very few Americans are taken in every year.</p>
<p>I feel like H > Oxbridge = YSPMC >> everyone else. I don’t feel like Oxbridge is Harvard’s peer, but rather it’s slightly better than them. Maybe that’s just in virtue of the fact that i’m American though.</p>
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<p>Does anyone know if there have been any studies conducted on the more general American education vs the more liberal UK one in terms of something like outcomes? (Yes, i’m aware that’s vague. Any studies comparing the two systems would be interesting however.)</p>
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<p>I imagine it just isn’t worth the effort in general. The United States is the foremost leader in higher education. What’s the point of putting in all of the extra effort for Oxbridge, especially if, as you noted, you can only apply to one of them?</p>
<p>Fine, let’s assume H = Oxbridge. But does Imperial = Caltech and MIT? or does LSE = YPS? It seems to me that in both cases, there’s a gap between the universitise. And that the British ones are inferior to their American peers (in one sense of peer.) Are they peers in test scores? Probably. Are they peers in resources? Probably not. Does resources even matter? That is the question.</p>
<p>"…Are they peers in test scores? Probably. Are they peers in resources? Probably not. Does resources even matter? That is the question."</p>
<p>Well, the OP had several questions. One was how Oxford and Cambridge are viewed outside Europe (Both in the US and in other parts of the world). Another qustion was whether Oxford and Cambridge are on the same level of global prestige as Harvard. A third question was whether Harvard is better known. And, a fourth question was whether the OP would have a hard time getting a Wall St./top university position/prestigious job with an Oxbridge degree vs. an American degree.</p>
<p>These questions are about prestige, not necessarily about which universities are ranked higher in terms of education and research quality (though that may enter into considerations of prestige). I largely view prestige as a matter of a university’s reputation and influence based on the achievements its faculty and graduates. A subset of this is social prestige, which is a matter of a university’s desirability to a social and political elite and/or whether its graduates gain entry to social and political elites. In these meanings of “prestige”, I don’t think there can be any doubt that Oxford and Cambridge are as prestigious (among educated persons) as Harvard, and, perhaps, more so. </p>
<p>“Does anyone know if there have been any studies conducted on the more general American education vs the more liberal UK one in terms of something like outcomes?”
Do you mean what is usually meant by general education on an American model (a scattering of courses in humanties, social sciences, natural sciences with a diversity requirement thrown in for good measure) or do you mean skills in writing, critical thinking, etc.? I don’t think there are any comparative US-UK studies, but one only needs to hear a speech by an American politician (say, Geo. Bush) side-by-side with one by a UK leader (say, Tony Blair) and the difference is rather obvious.</p>
<p>Having had experience in both American and British university systems, I’d say that Americans are generally more well-rounded academically and more likely to think “outside the box,” and that the British get a deeper, more intense education in their one or two areas. I generally lean toward the American system. However, the British system has its advantages, and there is nothing quite like having a conversation with a Oxbridge-educated English or history professor.</p>
<p>When I was in England, I was often surprised at how some things that I thought were rather obvious struck some British people as absolute genius pouring from my mouth. On the other hand, some of the comments that they made struck me the same way. Sometimes it just takes a different perspective …</p>
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<p>zapfino – I agree. Maybe it’s particularly true in the South (or West, or anywhere farther from Ivy League schools), but Oxford and Cambridge have a special aura that other schools (including Harvard and Yale) just don’t have.</p>
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<p>Surely you could have thought of a better example of American presidential eloquence. :)</p>