How are private high schools better preparing kids over public schools?

Parents Forum
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<p>Disadvantages of affluent public or so called good public schools:</p>

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<li>Affluence doesn’t necessarily equate passion for education or academics</li>
<li>Affluent public schools tend to have equally chronic problems as poor public schools but just a different set of problems. e.g. poor public school might have uncontrolled drinking issue at schools while affluent public have uncontrolled drinking at a home party.</li>
<li><p>Parent might be supportive of children rowdiness at affluent public schools as they can afford to and school administrators generally won’t do anything because of lack of overall disciplin.</p></li>
<li><p>Segregation based on honors, non honors, geeks, popular, ethnic clusters </p></li>
<li><p>It’s much difficult to mingle when you have distinctive tracks and classes are not homogenous. </p></li>
<li><p>Rivalry even in the affluent public due to ethnic clusters </p></li>
<li><p>Bullying, harassment is very common</p></li>
<li><p>Cut throat competition because of lack of ample resources even at affluent publics</p></li>
<li><p>Class filing up early, pre-requisites not available, cause parent involved into riot situation with school administrators.</p></li>
<li><p>Teachers lack of interest due to over loaded schedule </p></li>
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<p>So a good private school provide a very well rounded education which if one can afford for their children should provide them. K - 12 period in a child life are very delicate years and should be spent in a caring, intimate environment that embraces diversity, imparts values, academic integrity, knowledge, passion for learning and scope to explore children capabilities.</p>

<p>It is very hard for a public school to be able to provide these while a good private school can. Not all private schools are better than public schools but those that are they are worth the money.</p>

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<p>i dont know how to post a question here so i’m asking here…i wanna take admission in new york or california where ever in America i am in 10th class right now in pakistan i gave exams of 10th and i want to take bioloogy as a subject…can anyone help how will i get info…from where??</p>

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<p>Apples cannot be compared to oranges here. One should
(1) first examine the State as a whole, if State funding and State bureaucracy is a considerable feature dictating how public schools are run. I only know intimately about my own State, for example.
(2) second, look to compare a private and a public with similar income levels among the families. Otherwise, the comparison will be way off. Well-funded local districts with high property taxes tend to have better public resources.
(3) When one finds a comparable pair such as #2, such as I can find (many, many cases), I can generalize thus:</p>

<p>The best public school in my region has, by definition, way more bureaucracy than the worst private school. So hey, if you like bureaucracy, go for it. :rolleyes: Personally, I’d rather leave the bureaucrats to the IRS and the SSA than to my own children. </p>

<h1>1 -With bureaucracy comes rigidity, depending on the complexity of the bureaucracy. Thus, using as an example one of the best publics with high-income families, compared to a private with similar academics and income level: Which would you want, a system that requires the CP-level exact course to be completed, in all cases, before the AP of that course is attempted, and I do mean for each course. No skipping, no substitution, despite proven achievement & ability, despite results of placement tests, yadayada. For every student at said public, this means that about half the number of AP courses will be completed as by a similar student in a private, even though there are as many AP offerings in this public as in the private.</h1>

<h1>2 - generally wider diversity in student body composition at the private than the public, assuming an ethnically diverse geographical location to begin with. The best publics in my area are far more homogeneous than the best privates. More homogeneous in income and in race/ethnicity. It’s amazing how I’ve seen that translate into college lists. The kids from the privates automatically assume economic & racial diversity to be a necessary element of any college on their list. That is not necessarily a given at the publics. (sometimes yes, but often not.)</h1>

<h1>3 - Personal attention, with regard to academic guidance (course selection, course sequence) is potentially way better in the privates. That said, again, it’s important to compare apples to apples. There are some very large Catholic schools in my area which are similar in reduced individual attention to the best publics.</h1>

<h1>4 - Assuming a manageable size student body, the on-site college counseling WILL be better in a private than “the best” public. And the administrative staff speaks to each other non-bureaucratically. Thus, academic dean at the private (another luxury many publics do not have) actually speaks to the college counselor at that private, to plan Star Student X’s program from 9th through 12th so as to assure terrific college results.</h1>

<h1>5 - The corresponding aspect to #1 is that with flexibility in a private comes individual attention, even Independent Study in certain course areas, and even tailoring a course for a handful of students, including offering AP classes to tiny handfuls of students. And because the scheduling can be made so flexible, a student can pursue an Honors or AP class as an Independent Study in order to complete other desirable aspects of his or her program, as well as continue special extracurriculars that may only be held at certain times. (Or, the teacher for that one special AP may only be available at certain times relative to a student’s schedule; that will all be worked around in a private with a manageable student body; not so at a public.) In general, students at “best” publics have a maximum number of classes they can take during any semester or quarter; that number is variable at many privates.</h1>

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  • Affluent public schools tend to have equally chronic problems as poor public schools but just a different set of problems. e.g. poor public school might have uncontrolled drinking issue at schools while affluent public have uncontrolled drinking at a home "</p>

<p>Where do affluent private schools have drinking problems, POIH? Or are they immune?</p>

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<p>^^^I worked with a student at a well regarded private prep boarding school. She was on probation for drinking (I hear this happens a lot at boarding schools) and then in senior year attended an off campus party at a student’s home, where there was not only drinking, but a student died. She was expelled.</p>

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<p>I find generalizations like this to be an issue because we each are speaking of the public or private schools with which we are familiar. With regard to the above, my kids had this exact same experience at our not well regarded rural public high school. Each of my kids did several independent studies one to one with faculty and department heads throughout middle and high school (actually in elem too). One of my kids also had a two kids to one teacher courses tailored to them. One of my kids did an AP course as independent study with the Dept. Head because the course did not fit into her schedule. This happened in math, history, French, and also a study in architectural drawing. I can think of at least six such cases with my own two kids alone. My kids also accelerated within the school, such as taking twelfth grade classes in middle school and many other courses with grades above their grade. One kid had a special arrangement to do both chorus and jazz band when that normally cannot be done at our school. We were able to arrange many academic accommodations to meet their learning needs whether it had ever been done at the school before or not. My kids advocated for themselves, as did we, as did their GC who knew them very well from grades 7-12. This was not a “best” public by any means.</p>

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<p>When my oldest son was in public elementary school we found his teachers were much more willing to accommodate his math need than my nephew’s teachers were at a very highly regarded private school. The private school tended to think that their standard level was above average and that was good enough. Accommodations for him got easier as he got older and in fact when he got to be a senior they even created a small (5 students) special math class for the students who had taken Calc BC before senior year. In fact senior year his experience rivaled that of private schools he also had less than 10 students in AP Chem and AP Latin.</p>

<p>Anyone who thinks there is less drinking in the private schools around here is kidding themselves. There’s plenty going on in both places.</p>

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<p>Private schools can have very strict rules on behavioral issues. Students were expelled every year from my sons’ private school for alcohol or drug related events, some relatively minor. One of the reasons we moved our sons to private school was the higher expectations when it came to behavior, although I will say that by senior year the rigidness of some of the school’s rules made me nervous, as even relatively minor events were enough to put a student at risk of expulsion.</p>

<p>We moved our sons from a highly regarded public school system to a private college prep schools for several reasons: higher expectations, both academic and behavior-related, smaller class sizes (you can’t hide in a class of 7) and an emphasis on writing throughout the curriculum. As someone said above “writing, writing, writing”. Diversity turned out to be an unexpected benefit (especially compared to the very homogenous local public school), as did very close relationships with many of their teachers. While families who sent their children to this school were very committed to education and supportive of the school in many ways, parents were also far less involved in the day to day life of the school. I thought that was a good thing. </p>

<p>Looking back years later, I am very glad we were able to afford this move, and although my boys balked at first, they too now really appreciate the education they received at the private school. I don’t think it made any difference for college admissions - in fact, the boys might have gotten into slightly “better” (whatever that means) colleges if they had continued on their path of nothing but A’s (even for mediocre work) at the public school, but I do believe they were far better prepared for college as a result of the rigorous private school education they received. Both boys are now really competent writers, and excellent analytical thinkers which I hope will serve them well in whatever career they pursue.</p>

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<p>I’ve written on this before: W/re drug and alcohol use, there’s no comparison between private schools and public schools in this area. At public schools, there are substantial communities of kids who drink heavily and/or use drugs, and substantial communities of kids who don’t, and top students can belong to either but more often tend to be towards the straight-edge end of the spectrum. In the private schools – the good private schools – drug and alcohol use is at the 85-90% level. Someone who is a teetotaller really sticks out – they tend either to be immature and asocial, or more often they have specific medical or family issues that determine their behavior. The other kids respect that, so there isn’t any social ostracism. But drug and alcohol use is truly ubiquitous by the middle of high school, and prevalent long before that.</p>

<p>When my kids moved from private to public school, one of the culture shocks was discovering smart, social classmates who didn’t drink or use marijuana.</p>

<p>I think that has been true for a long time, by the way. At my private day school, alcohol and drugs were as ubiquitous as they are today in my (different) community’s equivalent private schools. When I got to college, I noticed that many of my new friends who came from public school hadn’t gotten drunk or used drugs in high school because at their schools doing those things marked you as a loser, and they had an enormous investment in being a winner and getting out of Dodge. On the other hand, my wife’s tiny set of high-performing students at an awful public high school in a dying industrial town all used drugs fairly extensively, mainly out of boredom and bohemian rebellion.</p>

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<p>JHS - for some drugs, cocaine, alcohol, marijuana, yes, it’s that way here too. For the heavier stuff, and for kids actually spiralling into addiction, more common in public schools. But that has little or nothing to do with the schools themselves, more to do with lacking a family infrastructure.</p>

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<p>I really think there are issues with both public and private schools. Not surprising, since you are dealing with kids…and PEOPLE in general, for that matter.
While our horrible public school was diverse, the reality was that it was quite segregated. The blacks hung out with the blacks, Hispanics with Hispanics, the few whites were in the honors classes. Some exceptions, of course. </p>

<p>One of my son’s classmates at the elite day private school he attended for a few years was a scholarship black kid. Neat kid. Became best friends with the son of a famous and controversial politician (think very small man with big ears and unsuccessful Presidential bid). Welcomed at their home. At night he had to go back to the 'hood- a very bad 'hood. He was picked on in the 'hood because he went to the elite private school and hung out with the rich kid with bodyguards. One day (junior year, I think) he blew his brains out in the parking lot of the school. He just couldn’t handle the double life. It was horrible, horrible, horrible. </p>

<p>Agree that private schools have a lot of rules and you can get booted easily. Some are more fair than others, and I have a kid who tested the limits at several schools. The reason he “left” the school discussed in my first paragraph is because he hurt a much bigger kid who was beating my son up (had him pinned face down on the ground while he pushed his face into the ground and kneed him in the back) WHILE a coach was watching! Long story- but the other kid’s dad had already sued the school once and they were more afraid of him than they were of me, so my kid got to leave. The next year the other kid (a very bad kid) got booted. Things like that happen, and it can be very, very traumatic for the families involved. It certainly changed the course of my son’s life in many ways- ultimately for the best, but it didn’t seem that way at the time. </p>

<p>At that same private school- son told me years later that there were drug buying cartels set up by the private school kids. 12 of them in a cartel. One of them made the buy every month and distributed the pot or whatever. My son said the drug use was rampant at the private school. </p>

<p>I now live in a state with public schools that vary greatly in quality, but I don’t have to worry about it for my kids. As a citizen and homeowner, of course I am concerned. I see families still struggling with the public v. private decision even in the better school districts. There are just so many things to consider.</p>

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<p>To JHS’ point: I’m aware of public schools who have put in, and are good at enforcing, zero-tolerance behavior for drug / alcohol abuse among the athletes. Put quite simply, no one parent is important enough to have any “pull.” Whereas at the private school, a parent who is a big donor or mucky-muck can indeed influence the school administration to look the other way on Johnny’s indiscretion because a) look, Johnny’s such a good student, he’s Harvard-bound and you wouldn’t want to ruin his chances and b) my checks for the new science equipment might suddenly dry up. </p>

<p>The fact that public schools aren’t necessarily as prestige-oriented when it comes to where their students matriculate also means that they aren’t particularly interested in “protecting” Johnny-going-to-Harvard if Johnny broke the rule. At least that’s my experience / observation.</p>

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<p>I wouldn´t choose private vs public over drug/alcohol issue.</p>

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<p>This is a topic that comes back around over time. I agree that it is a combination of the school, the school system, and the people (administration, faculty and students). No one thing makes or breaks a school, public or private. There is drug/alcohol use in both the public and private schools. There is administrative , buraucratic junk in the public and private schools. For us, where we lived when our older s started kgn had a lousy public elementary school. We sent him one year. That was enough. By the time we moved to a different house in a better school district, the kids were settled into their private schools. If we had lived when they started school in the district we now live in, they’d likely have been public school kids. But I don’t regret at all the choice we made. I considered it practice in writing checks for educational opportunities . Made writing college tuition checks less painful.</p>

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<p>When choosing a school for your kid, you have to see what that kid can get out of the school. Listening to someone brag how great it was for their kid at XYZ Academy should not turn your head and make you think that your kid will get the same. Sniff it out and see what the school can do for your kid. It does you no good if there are all the AP courses available but there are gate keeping tactics that make it difficult if not impossible for your kid to take them. That the sports teams are top rate and the drama program is professional level is all well and good, but would your kid be able to make use of them? So what that half the kids get into highly selective schools. Doesn’t mean your kid now has half a chance for that. </p>

<p>When we looked for places to live, we looked for choices, because we knew there was a good chance we might need them. We wanted a homogenuous environment in terms of socio goals, since peer pressure can be a very strong element in a kid’s life and kids can go nuts when those hormones spring into life. When half the class is out carousing and thinking of getting married or getting a job to pay for wheels, it can influence their goals in life. Yes, some kids are free thinking enough that it doesn’t matter, but not mine. They’ll listen to the guy yelling on the street corner before they listen to me. Had they not been in an environment where 100% of their classmates were in the “college game”, I don’t know if they would have joined in. They weren’t that gung ho as it was. Your kids spend 6+ waking hours, active hours at the most impressible times of their lives, so who they are with can make big difference in their outlooks on life. For some kids, that isn’t the case , and they could go to school anywhere, but I am addressing the big broad middle 50% range, maybe larger, not the top of the top kids or those for whom there are truly special issues. I think it is wiser to ask what to do when things go wrong, rather than right. It was very fortunate we did so, as we did have issues, and if we had been out in a area with no other alternatives, we would have worse problems. That we were surrounded with many choices, some of them given, and our right-our kids went to private schools and the public ones HAD to take them if things went south there,made the tough times less tight. We were never in a corner as were some of our relatives who left no room for things to go wrong. </p>

<p>We have two cousins that really should have gone to private schools. I wish to God I could have paid their ways. What happened with them is 99% peer pressure in the not so great schools where they attended and ended up with the bottom feeders. THings went rough in their lives, and it was just a lot easier to be with those kids and the choice was right there. Yes, there are drugs and alcohol and most schools, but when you stick your kid in a school where the kids all tend to go to college, even the ones who get thrown out have bent kind of patterned in them. You just don’t see those kids tending to quit school for a min wage job. The reason is not good–there is snobby reason for it and they make fun of such people, but it works in their keeping one foot in the academic race. When quitting and taking on line or night courses or alternative classes or GED are true real life possibilities, more kids will take them. When one of mine got into trouble in high school, the very idea of taking the GED made him recoil. In his crowd, that was a “loser thing”. Not a good way to think of it, but it was the only danged thing that got him back on track. And with some kids, you need everything you can get to keep them on track. You don’t have much of a chance when their peers are quitting school, getting junker cars, min wage jobs, hanging out all of the time and all of these things are so cool, not just acceptable, but cool in that crowd. </p>

<p>So I am not addressing the high range possibilities at a school system but situations to keep kids from going down the wrong path. Like water, it goes to its levels, and certain situation have deeper bottoms than others. Not to say the top isn’t every bit as good as in any situation–it’s that bottom that can make the difference.</p>

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<p>JHS- I think you generalize too much on the drug/substance issue. </p>

<p>There are private schools in my area where I wouldn’t have sent my kids even if they were free-- the academics in my mind could never have outweighed the social issues; there are fantastic publics in terrific towns but we couldn’t afford to live in those places so it wasn’t an issue.</p>

<p>I think alcohol use is rampant regardless of the type of school. The only difference is how pressured an individual kid might feel to partake, and how seriously the school takes its role to either intervene, get kids with serious problems into treatment, or kick out the problems.</p>

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<p>blossom, I have never pretended to be describing anything other than what I can observe in my community – realistically 6-7 well-known private schools (not religious), two urban public magnets, and a couple of affluent suburban publics. In this specific community. I am extremely confident that my generalizations are accurate as applied to that. Whether they would be accurate as applied to equivalent schools in Dallas, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, I don’t know. I strongly suspect that the situation in New York City and Boston would be pretty similar.</p>

<p>I can tell you with 100% confidence that alcohol use was not “rampant” in my kids’ public school. It wasn’t absent, either, but it sure as heck wasn’t the norm. (It was, however, the norm for the population of kids who were demographically identical to private school kids, e.g., my kids. My son would sometimes complain that everyone assumed he was a heavy drinker because he was an affluent white kid from the neighborhood where we lived. At the time, he drank very little or nothing, largely because his then-girlfriend, who was not white, not affluent, and not from our neighborhood, had pretty much a zero-tolerance policy. But the stereotype was generally accurate, and he would likely have been drinking more had it not been for the girlfriend. Kids like that, however, represented a fairly small minority at the school, maybe 10% of the students.)</p>

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<p>There are no fantastic HS’s as far as I know in our area. However, close teacher/students relationship at D’s very small private HS (33 kids in her senior class) was a big advantage. In fact couple kids left our school, one to go to bigger private catholic, another to public. Both were back, despite the fact that parents made them stay at new schools for entire year. They missed their ability to freely discuss anything with their teachers. Also, some teachers who came from teaching at colleges created more challenging class environment. My D’s identify her advantages over others at college in all of her favorite subjects: math, all sciences, writing (college Honors English was basically a waste of time besides fullfilling requirement, did not learn anything, but an easy “A”). Well, I bet her HS History teacher was also terrific, but History is D’s least favorite. However, here we go with another advantage. D’s HS was teaching college (not AP) American History class in cooperation with one of the top colleges in our state. So, D. has graduated from HS with real college credit in History despite the fact that her school dod not allow taking outside classes.
In regard to drugs/alcohol, it is everywhere, it is unavoidable.
The reason that we placed D. to small private HS was because she was in even smaller private middle school - 4 kids in her 8th grade. There is no way she was ready to handle public.</p>

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<p>cptofthehouse…I think you make some excellent points in post #155. A lot of this kind of thing depends on the type of kid one has. For me, I never thought twice about poor influences of some peers who attended our HS. My kids are motivated and driven and could care less the goals of the other kids. I recall as kids, they would say, “I want to go to a good college some day.” They had high expectations for themselves and are very goal driven. If other kids didn’t go to to college, so be it, but it never influenced their choices. Some kids did no ECs and my kids’ EC lives were jam packed. I recall D2 walking down a street in NYC at age 12 and pointing to the NYU buildings and saying, “one day I am going to go here” and she did. In elementary school, everyone knew her intended major/career (and that is indeed what she is doing today). My kids pushed the envelope seeking greater challenges than the school provided, and set up acceleration and independent studies because they craved these things. They initiated policies at their high school and activities that were not in existence there. They could care less what others chose to do. They were on their own path. They also did not party in high school and I feel confident that they never partook in any drugs or drinking (and I knew where they were at all times and frankly, they had no time for that as their lives were very scheduled up due to their own choice). Now, for a kid who is easily influenced by others, different story.</p>

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<p>My daughter went to private school for her freshman year of high school (a long time ago, she graduated hs in 2005.) She insisted on returning to the inner city public school system for the rest of high school. One reason (not the only one) was that she said there might be just as much drinking and drugs at the public school as at the private, but at least at the public school they didn’t talk about it all the time.</p>